To: Walter Logeman Subject: File: "PSYBER-L LOG9610" From: "L-Soft list server at HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (1.8d)" Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 17:27:44 -0400 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:20:56 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Charles, re Washington Post article. In-Reply-To: <960930181054_72262.2556_IHC88-1@CompuServe.COM> Jim The Elder, I had a dream the other night that I had a new son, he was very wise and grew up fast, and was known as The Teenage Maori Elder. He was destinied to be the king of New Zealand, unopposed! > Congrats, Charles, re Washington Post article. I will add mine to that, a great article, can be seen at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/daily/sept/27/minds/minds.htm I am not sure how long it stays there, and i have made a copy. > I hope this opens flood gates of interest in GBG. It will help if > other papers (like LA Times) pick up the info. > > Speaking only for myself, I havn't any idea of how to work into a > game. As you could tell from an earlier posting my world is one of > communications. I really enjoy Emailing with all of you here on > WL's lists. Most welcome. till the next, Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:21:00 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: == Access the List Options and Commands from the Web == All in Psyber-L, I have just found an excellent service provided by Netspace LWGate They provide easy access to mailing list commands. A good place to explore all those things about this list, that are not so obvious . . . I noticed for example that I should put up an Information File . . . Have a look, http://www.netspace.org/cgi-bin/lwgate/Psyber-L/ It is wonderful that such services are provided on the net! Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: PWP: re Washington Post article and random strands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/daily/sept/27/minds/minds.htm Thanks for listing the URL. The article gave me a bit more insight into what we are doing in this project. ***** I haven't had the time recently to gather my thoughts in a coherent fashion, but I have been mulling over definitions of RL and virtual (I realize now I have been making a different distinction than the obvious f2f and online) education vs training, and as an offshoot .... american public schools vs. montessori techniques (my daughter's new school is montessori) communication online (such as what we see on this listserv) and the communication online that my friends mistakenly think I have been participating in when I describe this project ++++++ (a good friend of mine in IT consulting finally admitted that he thought I have been spending my time in chatrooms yuck-yucking about. He could not understand my enthusiasm for the socialization/educational opportunities online because he assumed that online communication is base, not particularly thoughtful, and is the equivalent of tv sitcoms written by computer programmers. We finally cleared up this misunderstanding when I assured him I was not hanging out in chatrooms, pretending to be a different gender!) and finally, some phrases used by David Perkins a professor at Harvard(education) author of "Smart Schools" (I personally think his work goes beyond the schoolroom) he uses the term "thoughtful practice" to explain the step students must take after something has been explained clearly. I guess that is what we are doing here.... and is the bring between education and training. Just random thoughts... Holly PS: For the dream people in this group: Any thoughts about why, after ten years or so, a person from my past keeps popping up in my dreams? During the past year, every six to eight weeks or so I have been having particularly vivid dreams about someone -- nothing kinky, but very ....emotionally real. I often find myself talking with people who know this person -- his family, friends -- and then talking with him. No great crises in the dreams, but lots of strange details I have long since forgotten about (his being frightened of dogs as a child, etc.) Any thoughts? _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:19:39 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: == PSYBER-L Archives on the Web == Hi all, Just got the message that . . . PSYBER-L is webified. http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html Which means the archives are available -- those from March 96 -- on the web. *We can't write posts on the web* ie we still just use ordinary old email, and that is the way I like it. I am very happy with this news! For several reasons, one that we can refer to any other post in an URL. We can do this both in email here, or in "Web Scribed" documents on the web. Secondly the archives are viewable in many ways, by Date, Author etc. Thirdly the whole archived can be searched, there were 149 posts that included the word dream. (it shows the first 100). This will make life easier, in the web scribing. I can easily find the posts that contain topic headings etc, and then immediately have the URL to quote. Of course it can only be done while on line. That is expensive for some, it is here anyway, though better than it was. The archives are still available of course via email, and then you have them on your own machine. See the Help note on the bottom of all our emails OR http://www.netspace.org/cgi-bin/lwgate/Psyber-L/ the new tidy scheme on the web. All the best, Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:47:21 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Tama.Neill" Subject: Help-how do I quit walter? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi I never properly quit the first time.can you give me the instructions agin, please. 8) BYE... _____________________ *TAMA JAMEY NEILL* 19 Haywood st, Mornington Dunedin, New Zealand *P:(03)4554627* *E-MAIL address:-* *tama.neill@stonebow.otago.ac.nz* ____________________________ Custom-Sized Screen Realities: TURN ON TUNE IN BOOT UP "To be is to do" -Socrates "To do is to be" -Sartre "Do be do be do" -Sinatra Just say "Know" _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:22:36 EDT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Dr. Schmidt" <101632.3701@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: LEAVE Hello to all, I am taking off for Turkey for 3 weeks, so I switched the toggle in the LISTSERV program to NOMAIL, so that I do not have the same surprise as Jane (xxx messages) after I come back. I hope I can catch up later with what was going on. Best wishes, FRITZ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:59:14 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Farewell from Stuart All, What a satisfying totem of closure. I spoke to Stuart today, who hopes to get to the mail, he is doing well, and sends his farewells. I will close the list. Love, Walter. _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:04:19 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Error In-Reply-To: <325266bd.103481931@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> Ooops, Message re closure sent to wrong list! Sorry, please ignore. w _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:09:06 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: = To leave the list = In-Reply-To: <325266bd.103481931@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> *== To leave the list ==* Email LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM in the message write: --- "signoff Psyber-L" --- Without the quotes Walter _____________ _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:19:14 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: PWP:Topics In-Reply-To: <960930162714_101632.3701_BHG136-2@CompuServe.COM> Hi all, Fritz is away, but I think it would be useful for us to take up his lead in thinking about the topics, in terms of hierarchies. > I am addressing myself to Walter's list of topics. The concepts refer to > different levels of generalization. > The following topics are of more general level > > Goals of Education > Politics of Education > Politics of the Psyche Would these be even more general? Education Psyche Perhaps. What makes something general? With respect to what? Could different people have , see, different hierarchies? ~~~ Anecdote: As I came out of the place where I had lunch today there were two young men in dark suits, walking around each other , each of them engrossed in a cell phone conversation. I over heard one snippet: ". . . I did some serious perception management . . ." It was like walking into a movie sending up the mid 1990s. ~~~ Does that tie in with our wide web? That there are no hierarchies? That each of us manages our perception in our own way? > From my point of view it seems necessary that a certain structure evolves with > a hierarchy of topics, otherwise everything is of equal importance and the > boundaries become fuzzy. This is very interesting. Might that be OK? That "everything is of equal importance" ? This is at the heart of the post modern thing I think, which is something that came "after my time" . . . I think I am probably a "modern" and proud of it, even though I am challenging Fritz who is the *very* modern, what do you think? I think I will put all of these topics up on the web. That we then perhaps add links with references to *relationship* including *super / sub*, at the suggestion of our group. You see for some of us this group might be *about* sychronicity, with education as a sub category! We don't need just one hierarchy? Or do we? Fritz says: > In the analysis of the communication process one may break down the different > parts involved into > > (A) source of information - message - sender (coder) > (B) communication channel with noise sources > (C) receiver (decoder) - analyst of information (sink of information) > > Since education depends on communication this scheme has to be considered. > > Regards, > FRITZ, trying to eliminate noise sources in the communication channel Perhaps my anarchistic, each to their own hierarchy, will spell the death of communication ~ before we know it well all be on a different wavelength? All noise, no signal? I have a bit of serious web work to do, will let you know when there is something new up there. All the best, Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: PWP:Topics Hi to all... First I'd like to address Holly's question about dreams. To me it represents Walter's email about topics and hierarchies, separation and boundaries, perception, etc. I've studied what some others have said about dreams, including some books that identify certain elements, like water representing the unconscious. In a sense, I've acknowledged what I've read objectively, but only absorbed subjectively what made sense to me personally, to my own life experiences and where I am psychologically and spiritually at the moment. I guess I'm saying that no matter what kind of feedback you get on your dreams, Holly, I think you are the one with the answers. About the topics, Walter... I have some difficulty in the hierarchy of topics, but that's me. It seems to me that the process is that they will evolve... that synchronicity plays a part in which subject each one of us individually seem attracted to. I have personally been attracted to the synchronicity concept because I had a synchroncity/intuition/precognition about PWP two years ago. In Nov. 1994 I was frantically looking for you all, hours wandering the internet, hoping for clues and answers. Although I didn't exactly give up looking, I let the frantic search go and began the deepest self examination I could and looked for the answers in myself. Then... here you are... and everyone of you have pushed my buttons, and also hoped I might push someone else's. I know that makes me sound like a freak, but I guess the past couple of years have pretty much confirmed that I am one. I understand Fritz's desire to move into one area, and see great value in that. But I also see value in not establishing heirarchies at this point. No matter what comes I will value it. Maybe guidelines for length, thoughts would help? I have difficulty with too much linear restriction, but maybe I can learn If it doesn't work, I know the inner me will jump out and try to communicate anyway whether anyone hears or not. Janelle, I'd just like to hear anything you have to say... has any subject jumped out? If it has, what are your thoughts on it? Anything you've read in the PWP posts connected with your ideas in psychodrama, or in the workshop you attended? I hope everyone has a great week end. Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Janell F. Adair" Subject: PWP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi to all: Sheryl recently asked if any of the subjects that have been talked about in the PWP have jumped out at me, and the answer to that question is yes, but I'm still trying to sort things out so I can deal with them better. Maybe it's the media and maybe it's me, I'm not sure which it is, but I feel uncomfortable unless I have more confidence in what I'm saying. A good deal of what I've read here does relate to what I've discovered since I became a psychodramatist (which since it's my second career was only five years ago), but I don't know at this point if I can say how. I also am having problems in assigning a hierarchy to the topics although I recognize one is needed as a guide, the anarchist (or is it the individualist) in me is resisting. Part of me would like the topics to drift and individuals to add their comments as they want to, but another part (perhaps the old programmer/analyst) is crying for order. This experience with the list is the first of this sort for me, because after I switched careers I went through a period of time when I didn't want to have much to do with computers, that ended when I needed the tool for my thesis. However, for a long time I viewed computers as a tool for work and not as something that is also used in leisure. I often find myself resistant when I feel I'm being told how to do something, rather then being taught the method (if that makes any sense) and allowing me to determine how to do the task. I deal with some very low functioning, chronic mentally ill people in one of the hospitals where I do psychodrama and even here I only want to try and help as a guide, and not tell them what they need to do. I feel the answer(s) to their problems lie within them, and they just need some help in finding it. I found myself agreeing very much with something Holly said about hearing something in a lecture and then allowing the question to slip by, I use to think it was because I felt no one wanted to hear what I had to say, but I also think some of it was that I didn't want to challenge the authority (teacher), so I kept quiet. Thankfully I can say that's changed, although at times I'm not sure how much. Well I guess that's enough for right now, but I'll write more later. I hope everyone has a great week-end. Janell Janell F. Adair _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:11:19 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: PWP:Topics In-Reply-To: <961003122614_117458358@emout11.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Walter and all-- Having just emerged from the DreamEvent back over into Psyber space, I'm finding reentry a bit awkward. While before, I felt involved and connected with this group, I am finding the structuring of what is happening over here disconcerting--it as if the PWP group has become the "real" psybergroup and the rest of us folks outside the chosen few are merely here to fishbowl it for a while. I know, Walter, that you said to someone--Steve, I think?--that contributions were still welcome, but the structuring doesn't really invite others in, particularly since much of the most recent discussion is how to structure the web categories for documenting the participation of the 8 (?) participants. Somehow the emotional feeling created is that the rest of us can participate, but we aren't quite "real." OK, OK--this is definitely a high "Feeling" person here, but typically we have been conscious here of the emotional energy of the group as a whole. It may be that I'm the only one feeling this way and I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that I'm hypersensitive to such nuances, but I do find that when I needed to listen before (aka lurking) that it felt comfortable, knowing that I could always step in and be considered a full, interacting member of the group. I definitely do not feel this way now and suggest that we might ought to look at what creating a select group within a functioning group does to the structure, function, and psyche of larger group. I don't know what this would do in a counseling group, but I suspect I would find it uncomfortable there too unless it was for a very small selected period of time to process something in particular (like a fishbowl exercise in a class for part of a period). So for what it is worth, I thought I would toss this out --in the interest of honesty in processing the psyche in cyberspace and in consistency with my role of pointing out these nuanced levels as I experience them. All the best, Susan Ah--for those of you who don't know me, I am Susan Swan. In contrast to Charles' description of himself (nice image, Charles :-) ), I am small and sprightly (I once worked a summer as an elf and most who know me saw that as in character). I "profess" life in the role of a professor of Communication and am especially interested in aspects of transformation and in bridging gaps between dualities (sciences--humanities; empirical--critical; feminine--masculine, etc.). Outwardly I tend to appear fairly conventional, even conservative, but have the disconcerting habit of sliding in enough unconventional surprises to keep those around me guessing (children's stories in the middle of class, Groucho Marx glasses when things get too serious, tenting for a month out in the Black Hills of South Dakota while teaching a grad. class out there). I keep company with an 8-year old minx of a daughter here in Vermillion, South Dakota, USA and typically run late for everything. --SZS _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:56:14 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: Whatever..the topics are getting boring. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Susan and others.. How nice to see you were still on the list. Amongst some of the more sterile structure (I had to delete there as I got too rude even for me) ridden prose of late I know you will bring back some beauty to the list..and basically amen to everything you said. In fact I was just thinking of doing a bunk off the list till you emerged from the cyber wilderness, wielding a gentle machete. Structure is pointless in cyberspace. Cyberspace is anarchic, group structure is pointless. Your ignoring the fundamental essence of Cyberspace, it is chaos theory at its best. There is order at the edge of chaos but little point in trying to impose it, especially where it is least best imposed. The anarchy and random structure of events/topics is especially important to mailing lists to keep them moving and to prevent stagnation. One other thing..Walter when the last event was on, you all but disappeared from the list.. I could liken that to a platoon leader abandoning his troops mid march through the jungle. Subsequently the troops deserted or layed down and waited for reinforcements. I hope this new event isnt going to be another case of MIA. I love the smell of burning email in the morning.... Try and remember its 5am when you read this and my addiction has kept me up all night again.. ie Im in a bad mood cos I got stood up for a hot date on the net. Dolores. I know Wilbur..and Steven..Im doing it..Im doing it! Promise! _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Re: Whatever..the topics are getting boring. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:56 AM 10/4/96 +0100, you wrote: >I know Wilbur..and Steven..Im doing it..Im doing it! >Promise! Yeah, sure you are. You've ignored me for about 6 months... and then you complain when a hot date on the net stands you up. Poetic Justic?!? ;-( sniff.. Wilbur _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:29:52 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: Whatever..the topics are getting boring. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wilbur, You sound petulant.. tut tut. I am going to send you a nice long mega huge email asap..full of billing and cooing as to how much I missed you (I have) and how wonderful life has been, thus eliminating the need for me to be on the computer. Thats a bit of a lie..but life is good..which makes a change. Actually thinking about it lifes improved quite a bit since hubby exited stage left. Was meaning to write over the weekened but this will have to do till then, just as a reminder that I havent forgotten you. Must go..Tara is sticking things in the video again.. Love Dolores P.S Tara loves bubbles _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Re: Whatever..the topics are getting boring. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:29 AM 10/4/96 +0100, you wrote: >Wilbur, > >You sound petulant.. tut tut. Maybe, but I got you to respond. >I am going to send you a nice long mega huge email asap..full of billing and >cooing as to how much I missed you (I have) and how wonderful life has been, >thus eliminating the need for me to be on the computer. Glad things are going well.. looking forward to the email. >Thats a bit of a lie..but life is good..which makes a change. Actually >thinking about it lifes improved quite a bit since hubby exited stage left. Funny how it takes some time to realize that a divorce can actually be a good thing? >Was meaning to write over the weekened but this will have to do till then, >just as a reminder that I havent forgotten you. > >Must go..Tara is sticking things in the video again.. Oatmeal? >P.S Tara loves bubbles Great! Wilbur _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:49:18 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: It pays to check return addresses.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Wilbur.. Good job I didnt send you a letter full of seething passion and packed with sexual innuendo, because if I did the rest of the list would be reading it now. Er I didnt mean to post to the list..Im not sure what happened.. Thank god I was reasonably discreet.. Anyway Wilbur can you send me an email with your real email address (I lost alot of stuff when I got tentacled - a rather nasty virus ) so I can send all that seething passion and innuendo ASAP.. Dolores.. P.S No not oatmeal - my car keys..but it has much the same effect on my vcr's innerds..(is that how you spell innerds?) _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:07:52 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: Boring topics or self criticism.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What a wonderfully strong cyber voice you have! I hope you do stay on the list ...nothing like that smell of burning email in the morning :) ********About boring topics.... I am a bit confused by your comments. It is my understanding that the topics emerged from the listserv dialogue -- no strict guidelines here, just Walter listening and picking out the general threads in our discussions. Perhaps the threads would be different if you participated -- and perhaps more interesting! I sense that this listserv, if anything, is an >open< mike. Go for it. The listserv can only be what we make it. >Structure is pointless in cyberspace. Cyberspace is anarchic, group >structure is pointless. Your ignoring the fundamental essence of Cyberspace, >it is chaos theory at its best. There is order at the edge of chaos but >little point in trying to impose it, especially where it is least best >imposed. ********About chaos/structure/is it pointless... I think of the project "inside out" from the way you have characterized it. My interpretation of this exercise is not that structure is being imposed on the anarchic group, but that under close examination, a seemingly anarchic group exhibits order in dialogue. So we are here (hear), listening.... Holly _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: PWP: Response to Sheryl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Sheryl, Thanks for the comments. :) Shortly after I posted the message with the dream question, I began groaning internally (that voice that says "Why would you say something that stupid...") I am learning, though, that when I get that self-deprecating kneejerk reaction to apologize for what I have said, I need to stop myself, put the matter aside, wait for the embarrassment to subside, and then reflect on why I felt I need to say it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >I guess I'm saying >that no matter what kind of feedback you get on your dreams, Holly, I think >you are the one with the answers. I agree. But why would I say it here. I "hmmm'd" over this for awhile. What I didn't say was that I felt as though in these dreams, as opposed to regular dreams, I felt a connection with someone else. I didn't think it was a metaphor, but an actual "connection" -- not particularly romantic or sentimental, but very human. Synchronicity? Do/can people meet and connect in dreams as they do on the net? (Sounds like I am drifting into "Griffen and Sabine" territory as I write this!) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >About the topics, Walter... I have some difficulty in the hierarchy of >topics .... >I understand Fritz's desire to move into one area, and see great value in >that. But I also see value in not establishing heirarchies at this point. Agree. I have a feeling I would ignore them anyway! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Janelle, I'd just like to hear anything you have to say... your ideas in psychodrama, Agree. I am not familiar with psychodrama and would like to hear more. In fact, I would love to hear more from everyone ... to think about more topics that may be of interest to more people. Just Thoughts, Holly _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:29:26 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Janell F. Adair" Subject: PWP - answer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all: Holly I think I made a typical mistake, since I'm a new comer to the list, and since I knew Walter was the moderator (?) and that he was a psychodramatist, I just ASS U ME d that he had said whatever needed to be said about psychodrama. Plus I wasn't sure about speaking up in these lists, that's me and one of my problems about being heard. I need to go out for awhile now, but I promise I'll write more later including something about psychodrama, but I need to say it'll be limited to how it's practiced here in the U.S. since I've seen very little international presenters except one from Argentia who now lives in Australia. Thanks. Janell _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... Hey PWP and Psyber List people... Susan brought up some good points, and I can understand the feeling of separation. I was under the impression that PWP people would include PWP in our email subject titles, giving individual members of the List a choice of following the PWP discussion or not following it. In the meantime I haven't seen anything going on with the Psyber List in general... hopefully Susan's request will make it more active. If more interesting topics emerge there, I have a feeling PWP will in turn respond in an interactive paradigm. As Holly said, step up to the mike :) Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:38:35 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Out of the bowl . . . [was: PWP:Topics] In-Reply-To: Susan , Hi, Good to see you back in Psyber-L. I am writing here now without the PWP banner! Outside the fishbowl! Here with Susan, Laurel, Wilbur, etc. Looking at the whole, and the complexity of all this! Too right about not imposing on the list. This is us . . . what ever happens here we are making it. I know I make suggestions and proposals, but some get taken up and some do not! The PWP did. > Having just emerged from the DreamEvent back over into Psyber > space, I'm finding reentry a bit awkward. > While before, I felt involved > and connected with this group, I am finding the structuring of what is > happening over here disconcerting--it as if the PWP group has become the > "real" psybergroup and the rest of us folks outside the chosen few are > merely here to fishbowl it for a while. I know that this is a "feeling" you have, and based on the dynamics in the list at present. I hope that is changing, because your entry is changing the dynamics. > I know, Walter, that you said to > someone--Steve, I think?--that contributions were still welcome, but the > structuring doesn't really invite others in, particularly since much of > the most recent discussion is how to structure the web categories for > documenting the participation of the 8 (?) participants. It is having an impact that I did not anticipate . . . more chaos entering into the life here! In fact for the PWP to work there needs to be a lot of that detailed discussion boring to some! It does hilight a phenomena . . . that boring to some is of interest to others! I recall a long and difficult discussion in Psyber-L, about the merits / possibility / consequences of *ignoring* posts, actually people, a person. It can't be done really, some will wave the drama of that into other posts. So inside or outside the "fishbowl" of PWP is the dynamics of it all. All highly relevant to me! I am learning a lot. Perhaps not to do it this way ? In part , my idea of having the PWP is here so as not to vacate the list here . . . > Somehow the > emotional feeling created is that the rest of us can participate, but we > aren't quite "real." OK, OK--this is definitely a high "Feeling" person > here, but typically we have been conscious here of the emotional energy of > the group as a whole. It may be that I'm the only one feeling this way and > I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that I'm hypersensitive to such > nuances, but I do find that when I needed to listen before (aka lurking) > that it felt comfortable, knowing that I could always step in and be > considered a full, interacting member of the group. I definitely do not > feel this way now and suggest that we might ought to look at what creating > a select group within a functioning group does to the structure, function, > and psyche of larger group. Yes! It is something that is done in groups. The software for the list would allow me to set up a PWP "topic" and then list members could choose to get or not get PWP mail. However that creates even more divisions . . . Susan, perhaps it is not a matter of re/structure . . . you are welcome here. You may be sensitive, and that is welcome here as far as I am concerned . . . the feeling you bring belongs here, how the PWP members feel, and how we on the outside of the project feel ( I am still out here for now . . .) is what it is all about . . . ( how we think and act as well of course.) > I don't know what this would do in a > counseling group, but I suspect I would find it uncomfortable there too > unless it was for a very small selected period of time to process > something in particular (like a fishbowl exercise in a class for part of a > period). Yes. Perhaps fishbowl is not the right metaphor. We can choose them here and that sometimes changes the virtual reality! How does the group dividing into various smaller groups: DreamEvent being one, PWP, being another, these being the two with names, leaving some informal groups in the main room of Psyber-L. The question is should we all be one big group, can we have the diversity with the awkwardness, the feellings of inclusion and exclusion that this inevitably creates? What you have initiated, expressing . . . acknowledging the differences, the feelings and the *experiences* . . . is exactly what the list is for . . . it is within its brief for all the complexity. > So for what it is worth, I thought I would toss this out --in > the interest of honesty in processing the psyche in cyberspace and in > consistency with my role of pointing out these nuanced levels as I > experience them. Thank you. > Communication and am especially interested in aspects of transformation > and in bridging gaps between dualities (sciences--humanities; > empirical--critical; feminine--masculine, etc.). On this score the whole PWP thing might be of some interest . . . the way it is turning out? > surprises to keep those around > me guessing (children's stories in the middle of class, Groucho Marx > glasses when things get too serious, Like this? : http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/groucho.htm Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:55:07 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Stephen Calhoun Subject: orderly chaos (in reply to Laurel) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961004055437.42777cdc@mail.easynet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Laurel suggests, >Structure is pointless in cyberspace. Cyberspace is anarchic, group >structure is pointless. This is intriguing; it's a political idea too. The bubbling of random and non-linear effects, organization and disorganization, wild and dionysisian. However, what you write next speaks to a paradox. >Your ignoring the fundamental essence of Cyberspace, >it is chaos theory at its best. Chaos theory concerns the (mathematical) *order* of models of non-linear, dynamical systems. (I've always supposed it was because *chaos* rolls off the tongue more easily than *complex non-linear systems* that the beautifully ordered and mathematically formalized theories which concern such systems have been saddled with a name with such an unfortunate connotation as chaos. oh well...) That said, what is chaotic in the general often turns out to be quite ordered in the specific, and thus, for example, the seemingly random self-organization of the fractal is in fact driven by specific and orderly mathematical operations. Yes, there is an *unpredictable* output, but this is not randomness; a key distinction. *** Laurel you do uncover, for me, something important: the paradoxical creativity and spontaneity and even anarchy arising out of an internet itself dependent on the orderly and linear 'mechanics' of the digital network. I'm not sure if the internet as a physical structure can be described as a non-linear system; my guess is even with the asychronous variables it is comprehensible within the calculus of linear systems theory. However, the expression of a single creative person, let alone a group or a network, seems to me to be an expression of complexity and non-linearity. Metaphorically, and perhaps even mathematically. Far out to me too, HooN _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:59:49 -0700 Reply-To: aigle@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Irrelevant and/or irreverent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurel and other Psyberians, I admit to being PWP focused here on the PSYBER-L list which is the birth-mother of the PWP group. With much discussion of the group within the larger group, there is indeed a potential for the notion of clique within the group. Walter, how can we solve this problem while waiting for the start-up of the PWP activity (I know, I know, it has started informally ... but, let us give PSYBER-L back it's own voice and happy state of anarchy). Still, Laurel, the topic of synchronocity is not _just_ a PWP topic, I seem to recall some mention of this in our not so distant golden days when the words flew thick and fast (almost faster than a child with Mom's keys). As for education, I'd ignore that monstrosity of a word and replace it with dialogue. Now, there's a word we could talk about (and have at quite some length) with passion. Hmm-mm? I seem to remember passion as a topic as well. Deja-vu ... I've been here before ... you've been here before ... we've said this all before ... ! Yet, we once again open our mouths to give voice to the recurrent thoughts within us. As for Walter abandoning PSYBER-L for the dream group (as well as myself, Susan, Is'e, Charles, HooN, Jim & Jim, Anita, Marie, Walt, and John ... I've missed some of the group - pardon is immediately begged for), I wonder if that silence wasn't also needed/wanted by those that stayed here on PSYBER-L and didn't exercise their voices. Regardless, the sounds of discourse have again begun to invite all back to the feast of communion. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:57:39 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Whatever..the topics are getting boring. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961004055437.42777cdc@mail.easynet.co.uk> Laurel I love the burning email line -- well done! An interesting contradiction. . . > Structure is pointless in cyberspace. Cyberspace is anarchic, group > structure is pointless. And then you lament the loss of leadership and watch to troops just wilt and die! For all my going with the flow, I manage to get a few things going . . . and you do too! A different style, but you leave a trail of "smoking email" Does the list *need* leadership? Facilitation? I think it works best if someone takes that role. Next time I take some leave . . . perhaps someone else could take the role? There is a lot in it! The PWP being in the list does make for some lively interaction, even if it is the big yawn. I think you have something .. . see my note about the looking for where the energy is in the project. All the best Walter . _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:58:01 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... In-Reply-To: <961004120201_324995500@emout05.mail.aol.com> Sheryl, > In the meantime I haven't seen anything going on with the Psyber List in > general... hopefully Susan's request will make it more active. If more > interesting topics emerge there, I have a feeling PWP will in turn respond > in an interactive paradigm. And even in the few exchanges this has happened. And right on the theme of anarchy and order, we are living the things we have been speaking about, much harder to do! My sense is that I have been writing the web pages with too much emphasis on the order. Even the lists I made, here, yes it was all from our discussions on the pwp. Perhaps we are getting to the core, to the main theme. Order and chaos. Order in chaos, *dialogue* and the words Susan bought in: | transformation and in bridging gaps between dualities (sciences- | humanities; empirical--critical; feminine--masculine, etc.) My sense is not to make lists but to see if the web can catch the juice . . . (poor metaphor). I recall Charles at a similar point once saying, I surrender! Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:04:19 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Stephen Calhoun Subject: PWP: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... In-Reply-To: <325659b5.1206543@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PWPers and everybody else! > >And even in the few exchanges this has happened. And right on the >theme of anarchy and order, we are living the things we have been >speaking about, much harder to do! One foot is in Psyber-L , the other in PWP. So when I reply to Laurel with comments about her response to a PWP post I'll need to indicate whether I wish the scribe to consider it for the PWP project? Phew. Pasting it in as a quote for consideration o great scribesman. :-) vainly, Stephen >X-Sender: hoon@junior.wariat.org >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:55:07 -0500 >Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List >Sender: Psybernet Mailing List >From: Stephen Calhoun >Subject: orderly chaos (in reply to Laurel) >To: PSYBER-L@home.dc.LSOFT.COM > >Laurel suggests, > >>Structure is pointless in cyberspace. Cyberspace is anarchic, group >>structure is pointless. > >This is intriguing; it's a political idea too. The bubbling of random and >non-linear effects, organization and disorganization, wild and dionysisian. > >However, what you write next speaks to a paradox. > >>Your ignoring the fundamental essence of Cyberspace, >>it is chaos theory at its best. > >Chaos theory concerns the (mathematical) *order* of models of non-linear, >dynamical systems. (I've always supposed it was because *chaos* rolls off >the tongue more easily than *complex non-linear systems* that the >beautifully ordered and mathematically formalized theories which concern >such systems have been saddled with a name with such an unfortunate >connotation as chaos. oh well...) > >That said, what is chaotic in the general often turns out to be quite >ordered in the specific, and thus, for example, the seemingly random >self-organization of the fractal is in fact driven by specific and orderly >mathematical operations. Yes, there is an *unpredictable* output, but this >is not randomness; a key distinction. > >*** > >Laurel you do uncover, for me, something important: the paradoxical >creativity and spontaneity and even anarchy arising out of an internet >itself dependent on the orderly and linear 'mechanics' of the digital >network. > >I'm not sure if the internet as a physical structure can be described as a >non-linear system; my guess is even with the asychronous variables it is >comprehensible within the calculus of linear systems theory. However, the >expression of a single creative person, let alone a group or a network, >seems to me to be an expression of complexity and non-linearity. >Metaphorically, and perhaps even mathematically. > >Far out to me too, > > > >HooN > >_______________________________________________________________ >For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to >LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:15:02 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... Awww, heck... I wanted to stay silent for awhile but can't... I'm getting visions of a gender thing going on here about this *boring* topic thing. Susan and Laurel are asking for recognition, Holly and I are saying go for it ladies if you have more interesting topics (and frankly the cyber flirting is mildly amusing to me as a woman, but not exactly what I thought the purpose of PWP was)... and you guys are responding with intellectual stuff which I have a feeling emanates from lack of recognition of what the ladies hearts are really requesting... this intellectual stuff sounds defensive to me, understandable, but unnecessary. Walter, you're doin' fine. "Spiritual understanding is born or the harmony between the mind and the heart." Meher Baba. Sheryl (wry smile on pumpkin face) _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:05:57 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:15 PM 10/5/96 -0400, you wrote: >Awww, heck... >I wanted to stay silent for awhile but can't... I'm getting visions of a >gender thing going on here about this *boring* topic thing. > >Susan and Laurel are asking for recognition, Holly and I are saying go for it >ladies if you have more interesting topics (and frankly the cyber flirting is >mildly amusing to me as a woman, but not exactly what I thought the purpose >of PWP was)... and you guys are responding with intellectual stuff which I >have a feeling emanates from lack of recognition of what the ladies hearts >are really requesting... this intellectual stuff sounds defensive to me, >understandable, but unnecessary. Walter, you're doin' fine. Hey, I'm a guy, and I wasn't intellectual.. (A first for me!) Wilbur _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:01:36 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Stephen Calhoun Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... In-Reply-To: <961005141500_202800089@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >"Spiritual understanding is born or the harmony between the mind and the >heart." Meher Baba. > ...what a hoot! Reminding me of what the graves of Saints are for... HooN _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:09:41 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Janell F. Adair" Subject: Re: PWP Boring topics or self criticism.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:15 PM 10/5/96 -0400, you wrote: >Awww, heck... >I wanted to stay silent for awhile but can't... I'm getting visions of a >gender thing going on here about this *boring* topic thing. > >Susan and Laurel are asking for recognition, Holly and I are saying go for it >ladies if you have more interesting topics (and frankly the cyber flirting is >mildly amusing to me as a woman, but not exactly what I thought the purpose >of PWP was)... and you guys are responding with intellectual stuff which I >have a feeling emanates from lack of recognition of what the ladies hearts >are really requesting... this intellectual stuff sounds defensive to me, >understandable, but unnecessary. Walter, you're doin' fine. > >"Spiritual understanding is born or the harmony between the mind and the >heart." Meher Baba. > >Sheryl (wry smile on pumpkin face) > Hi Sheryl and the rest: Sheryl.... Please don't be quiet I like your style. You tell it like it is. I'm going to try and open up more myself and say what I'm thinking (although, I still feel a little held back in a group when I'm not f2f). Janell ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:53:13 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: FishBowl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Perhaps fishbowl is not the right metaphor.< If I=B4m to judge the the wor= k of the feeder of the PsybeLFishBowl.I=B4ll = say that he is a damm good one. If I=B4m to judge the fish in the PsyberLfishbowl I=B4ll say, we are well = feed and damm good fish. So keep on eating and keep on feeding. Me the BigShoeFish has been down = on deepwaters for a while and will still be watching the PWPfish and the = PsLFish from below as they swim around Up or down ??? or ?? or among us = other PsyberLfish. Waw Man/Woman there goes another beautiful = RedFish........Arghhhhhh.It took the bate......tisssss tisss = tissss....I.I.I.think he had luck...is was..a stone from above... <=3D< -- = Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:46:43 -0700 Reply-To: aigle@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Fate and Synchronicity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all, I've just been doing a little reading from James Hillman's book, _The Soul's Code_ and have found myself in a state of near shell-shock. It speaks loudly to me as I sit here in a state of passive mental/emotional hibernation, occasionally wandering through Cyberspace in a dis-associative manner ... waiting. The impact of reading only part of chapter one? ... I reached again for my journal which has sat next to my computer for months untouched ... I awoke to the notion that I am here and alive ... p.32 JH :: I want psychology to have its base in the imagination of people JH :: rather than in their statistics and their diagnostics. I want JH :: the poetic mind applied to case histories so that we read them JH :: for what they are: modern forms of fiction, and not scientific JH :: reports p12 JH :: But why is it so difficult to imagine that I am cared about, JH :: that something takes an interest in what I do, that I am JH :: perhaps protected, maybe even kept alive not altogether by JH :: my own will and doing? JH :: Despite this invisible caring, we prefer to imagine ourselves JH :: thrown naked into the world, utterly vulnerable and JH :: fundamentally alone. The appearance of this book at this point in my life reminds me of the appearance of Nietzsche's _Thus Spoke Zarathustra_ when I was a teenager. The first thought guiding thought that comes with its appearance is the idea that: midlife crisis is a time when angels and daimons denied find their voice and force us to confront our daily life with "rebellious intolerance" (my words) For those of you who know me in part, this might make a little bit of sense. For the rest of you, I'm a poet and philosopher who dreams of marrying my passion with the idea of using CMC for communicative counselling (dialogues from the soul) Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:21:28 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: FishBowl In-Reply-To: <32587099.5211@cybernet.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bent--What a marvelous image you create! I see Walter's hand suspended above one of the old-fashioned fishbowls, gently shaking out flakes onto the surface of the water, with the PWPers nipping up to the surface-- and then maybe instead of the smell of sizzling e-mail, we get the splash of foreign fish jumping into the fishbowl on their own invitation (no, piranna (sp?), I hope--although I do recall that Laurel, when provoked has quite a bite ;-) ) --and there is patient Walter, a bit surprised, but feeding us all. To the other fine folk, in jumping in a few days ago, I was lax in my greetings. Sheryl, Holly, and Janell--most hearty welcome. I have so throughly enjoyed your appearance in this list and will look forward to engaging in discussion with you. Kudos to Sheryl for hearing the sub-text of the proceedings. To Holly--gosh it's nice having Holly instead of HGB--you seem more present as you! To Janell--good to have you here. It took me a while to figure this psyberspace out and I was frightened to jump right in there (of course, after my first post, Fritz dropped me a post indicating that I had NO future as a lurker--and here I am still). To Laurel--how wonderful to hear that things are going well for you and that Tara is likely as mischevious as you deserve. Thanks VERY much for the reinforcement--it is good to know that I wasn't alone (one never knows in these listserv things--the keyboard doesn't give too many nonverbals--and I have learned from your straightforwardness in saying things. ) To Robert--in hearing of your link with Hillman (I just got a new book by him myself and now will be motivated to dive in), it brough a mist to my eyes; your post sounded more like the you of last spring than I've heard in quite a while--you have been missed more than you may know. More on the topics you raise later. To Wilbur and Hoon--two different souls, but what puckish senses of humour! To Walter--I'm just going to pretend that this PWP thing doesn't exist and choose to put my input in where I want to. If in writing this up, my input gets lost, then it's the web record that will be impoverished (oh, she's getting cocky here--emmmmm, no can't be--wrong gender for that ;-) ). The discussions of education and synchronicity are central to many of our previous discussions here on Psyber-L--and thus I guess I just won't let a group-within-the-group have it to themselves. So there! Ah, well--enough here. I must go grade papers (education in action!). Susan _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: Out of the bowl . . . [was: PWP:Topics] In-Reply-To: <32557e1c.66858812@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Walter--What a laugh I just got, checking the "groucho" web page! Yes, that is precisely the type of glasses that show up in my classes, except that my pair has a specially trimmed mustache to keep me from getting it in my mouth when I talk (the sputtering interferes with the content of a lecture :) ). Now just imagine those glasses with an elf's face behind them, dark brown eyes with a mischevious twinkle, and a grin of appreciation for you. Warmly, Susan _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:08:41 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Out of the bowl . . . In-Reply-To: Susan, > Yes, that is precisely the type of glasses that show up in my classes, > except that my pair has a specially trimmed mustache to keep me from > getting it in my mouth when I talk (the sputtering interferes with the > content of a lecture :) ). Now just imagine those glasses with an elf's > face behind them, dark brown eyes with a mischevious twinkle, and a grin > of appreciation for you. Ha! What a hoot. What would we call this? Synchronicity? When we have been working our way into our theme of formality and informality in education and then Susan Swan appears, *lecturing* with those glasses in her classes, and *grading* the papers. Perhaps it is just an anecdote! Yep . . . just ignore the whole PWP thing, in the very ignoring it is now like a dream image in the group. Fish, *red* fish being *fed*, and being baited from above . . . seen from below by even deeper fish? Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:56:13 -0000 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Jim Simons Subject: Intro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to all, Having lurked here for a week or two, I suppose it's time to introduce myself. For those of you who do not already know me, my name is Jim Simons. I'm the other Jim from the Dream Event (the Younger, by virtue of my also being the youngest member of that Group), and my participation in that group is a main factor in my decision to join this group. So, here I am (those of you who already know me will notice several differences from my last introduction to you): I'm a student at the University of Richmond, formerly of psychology and now of computer science. I had planned to be a psychologist of some sort, but I've become disillusioned (in the best sense of the word) with the psychological research community, so I'm planning on paying the bills with computer science and programming while I decide what I really want to do. I still think way too much like a psychology major, though. I devour literature, especially if it seems in any way to have a mystical perspective to it. As for "favorites," the list I give depends largely on what I happen to be reading at the moment; Herman Hesse, T.S. Eliot, Meister Eckhart, Rilke, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Nietzsche are among those who have earned permanent places on that list. I'm also interested in ways of enhancing the psyche, particularly meditation, hypnosis, and NLP. I consider myself a Christian (on the more mystical side), but I am interested in esoteric traditions of all sorts. I think that most of these traditions are pointing in the same direction, even if they don't say it in so many words, so I tend to focus much more on ideological consonances than dissonances between and among traditions. Aside from that, I'll just make the disclaimer now that I tend to spend long periods of time lurking, and then emerge with a flurry of posts only to return to lurkerland. Sorry for the template-ness of this intro. I look forward to continuing to explore the psyche in psyberspace. Returning to lurkerland, Jim Simons jsimons@richmond.edu _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:52:55 -0700 Reply-To: ddunn1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Doug Dunn Organization: Preferred Company Subject: Re: Out of the bowl . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Logeman wrote: > > Susan, > > > Yes, that is precisely the type of glasses that show up in my classes, > > except that my pair has a specially trimmed mustache to keep me from > > getting it in my mouth when I talk (the sputtering interferes with the > > content of a lecture :) ). Now just imagine those glasses with an elf's > > face behind them, dark brown eyes with a mischevious twinkle, and a grin > > of appreciation for you. > > Ha! What a hoot. What would we call this? Synchronicity? When > we have been working our way into our theme of formality and > informality in education and then Susan Swan appears, *lecturing* > with those glasses in her classes, and *grading* the papers. > Perhaps it is just an anecdote! > > Yep . . . just ignore the whole PWP thing, in the very ignoring > it is now like a dream image in the group. Fish, *red* fish > being *fed*, and being baited from above . . . seen from below by > even deeper fish? Walter, Can you ever get away from fish, Aion was filled with fish. Why not look closer at what the fish that got away was? Doug _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:15:54 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: Out of the Dog bowl . . . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A bowl..a container..functional... essential..familiar.... biscuit floating at the top..absorbing the gravy from below.. great chunks of meat to chew on to salivate over.. and the biscuit crunchy, mopping up the flavours, the essence the vitality of all thats held in its plastic depths.. forever being renewed..washed and cleansed, filled and then eager tongues lurch towards the vital nutrients..the tang of liver and the full rich taste of indigestible kidney, the smell of tripe occasionaly wafting from the greasy depths, ignoring the worming tablets that creep in from time to time...again..pavlov..winalot..pedigree chum.. my dogs bowl holds greater depths than first I imagined..and in my dogs perception is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I was going to do out of the toilet bowl but there are limits to which even I wont sink... washing up bowl shows promise however Dolores.. _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: Where is the Dog bowl? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" in the geography of this listserv? Or, in other words.... Someone ... please ... tell me ... where ... this ... all ... is .. going! >A bowl..a container..functional... essential..familiar.... biscuit floating >at the top..absorbing the gravy from below.. great chunks of meat to chew on >to salivate over.. and the biscuit crunchy, mopping up the flavours, the >essence the vitality of all thats held in its plastic depths.. forever >being renewed..washed and cleansed, filled and then eager tongues lurch >towards the vital nutrients..the tang of liver and the full rich taste of >indigestible kidney, the smell of tripe occasionaly wafting from the greasy >depths, ignoring the worming tablets that creep in from time to >time...again..pavlov..winalot..pedigree chum.. my dogs bowl holds greater >depths than first I imagined..and in my dogs perception is a thing of beauty >and a joy forever. > >I was going to do out of the toilet bowl but there are limits to which even >I wont sink... washing up bowl shows promise however > >Dolores.. > >_______________________________________________________________ >For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to >LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:36:57 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Fate and Synchronicity Hi to *Everyone*, Psyber L and PWP... How difficult it has become to address what has been going on... particularly when so much of it has lead to deep insights about myself. I'd like to thank the Psyber L friends for telling us a little about you and for your feedback... it has been disconcerting for those of us newcomers, who jumped in with both feet, to have any sense of *what* we jumped into. The insecurity of that feeling is a lesson (or affirmation) in itself... a lesson that each of us is simply (and complexly) who we are, and learning and responding to the risks we take when we attempt to put that out in cyber space. It can be a terrifying experience for some, and come as easily as tying shoes to others. Within the groups, Psyber L, and PWP, each person who has written has begun to speak to me, not in person, but in spirit, from the soul, so it is becoming more difficult for me to think in terms of groups and concepts and themes. I have a strong yearning to address the individual, not the group. I am particularly feeling strongly, on a soul level, from Laurel... initially I felt *her* machete, but I am beginning to see beyond that (checking back on the archives helped) and feeling more and more an extremely deep wound... I have a strong intuition that her wounds are similar to mine. I hestitated to write that, Laurel... but your soul is speaking that strongly to me, and reminding me of the enormous unexpressed pain in all our realities, a dark, shadowy presence, constant companion... and the hope that someone will hear it. This to me is what Robert is referring to by dialogues from the soul... which is exactly my passion too (and it even has a name!) The difficulty in hearing at this soul level for me is not taking it into myself, feeling it, and wanting to reach out and somehow say *it'll be ok.* Because I don't know if it will be ok or not... all I can do is trust the journey, and that I am really going toward some goal, whether mine or the universe's, and that what I write in my posts isn't totally ridiculous, but maybe has been heard by just one other person, letting them know they are not alone. I'd like to propose we drop the education topic and change it to something that more reflects lessons of the soul, learning of the soul... I think someone can think of a better way to describe this. Thinking about all of you, with love, Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:44:07 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: NonPWP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All and Thank You Susan >Bent--What a marvelous image you create! I see Walter's hand suspended< >above one of the old-fashioned fishbowls, gently shaking out flakes onto >the surface of the water, with the PWPers nipping up to the surface-- >and >then maybe instead of the smell of sizzling e-mail, we get the splash of >foreign fish jumping into the fishbowl on their own invitation (no, >piranna (sp?), I hope--although I do recall that Laurel, when provoked >has >quite a bite ;-) ) --and there is patient Walter, a bit surprised, >but feeding us all. Piranas ??? maybe we need a shark? A lot is happenning in the Bowl for the moment,indeed not a time for silence. But I have not that feeling of beeing outside,part of what I try to express in picturing the PLPWPINSIDEOUTBOWL.I think its interesting to be part of the PWP observers, and as it is for the moment it seems that PWP people uses a lot of energy to find out where they are going.How in earth do You get the time to do that???and also givin response to everybody else outside. I think it takes both time and a lot of energy.Off course having trouble to understand the very intellectual E-Mails about communicating its maybe nescasery for those folks to work that way, but I do hope that it will end in some more intense emotional topics. IM maybe a little impatient for the moment waiting to see things coming on the Web part of the PWP its a great experiment.And its impossibel to put pressure on the group to work faster, as they are neither elected or bought to PWP its purely volunteers And maybe we other NonPwp can come up with more topics focused on beeing outside as Susan did. I think It would be a bad idea to break up the list in different lists, with different lists a.s.o. I really liked That Walter made a Grocho HTML LINK http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/groucho.htm that must be one of the next steps to take making Htmls with either drawings or pictures, in connection to E-MAILS. I like the thought of it having worked with, (directly translated from Danish called "Drawing Therapy".And not beeing able to express high level of theoretical English.What do You think??Maybe draw something to represent me on the list.Eks."ME as a fish" instaed of psychodrama f2f we could make psycodramapictures.is that possibly?? And the feeder, I know hes in the bowl also and we feed each other. P.s It seems that I have some difficulties in strange signs popping up in Your E-Mails .I cannot se them when Im writing and mailing Does anybody have an idea what and where I can avoid it.it must be something with ASCII. IM using Netscape Mail. Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:18:48 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: Fate and Synchronicity In-Reply-To: <961008143657_121727085@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sheryl--It occurs to me (as I pull from the fog of the flu and from grading speeches) that we might well be able to talk about the issues of the soul and education as linked. While traditionally education has been seen (by some anyway) as providing access to objective knowledge (which is transferred magically from a talking head through the pen of a busily scribbling student and somehow up into an awaiting brain), I have found for me that it is much more a journey of the soul. If I as a teacher can connect in some vital way with my students, then the possibility of each of becoming more educated in the process is truly there. It was Plato that said that the philosopher (and here he was talking about the educator role of the philosopher) as being a "midwife to the soul" (in Theophrastus?--don't have those books/notes with me, sorry) . Rhetoric (the rhetoric described in the later dialogue _Phaedrus_ not the early dialogue _Gorgias_) was a means of transforming the soul--and the noble lover/rhetor was one whose aim was to hlep the student/audience to find the appropriate path into the soul. what this begins to suggest is that the intuitive rather than a purely sensing avenue into the mind is one which is in tune with the soul and which supports soul-ful growth, not only in knowledge, but in knowing--one's self, one's world, one's God --and again we are brought to overcoming the dialectics of life, here as sensing/intuitive , thinking/feeling to arrive at soulfulness as the product of the interaction of the seeming contraries- (what Charles Cameron has so sonorously labeled _solunarity_). Now, I'm not sure how to always achieve this. Last week I read a children's book _Matthew's Meadow_ as an introduction to Interpretive/ Critical research methods--the soulfulness could be felt in the entire room. This week we were too distracted by quibbling about how hard the quizzes are (ok, they quibbled; I snarled, but that may be more due to the flu than anything else) to do much soulful journeying, but I am convinced that even the most prosaic subject can be approached from within the soul of those involved in the educational process--and discover that inthe end, every subject is about us and the life that we are about every single day and every subject can be an invitation to growth of the MindSoulBody. --Unfortunately this body is ready to crash, so I'll stop here . Soulfully slumping back to bed---- Susan _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 03:01:01 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Fate and Synchronicity In-Reply-To: <961008143657_121727085@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sheryl > it has been disconcerting for those of us newcomers, who > jumped in with both feet, to have any sense of *what* we jumped into. =20 New or old, this is fresh and new, and *unknown* and while I expected complexity, I did not expect this level of depth or difficulty in doing the job I took on of web scribe. I am impressed with the riches we have. =20 . . . will someone tell me what is going on . . . Holly asked. I think you are doing that Sheryl, not by being here like this it helps me to see where we are. =20 > The > insecurity of that feeling is a lesson (or affirmation) in itself... a = lesson > that each of us is simply (and complexly) who we are, and learning and > responding to the risks we take when we attempt to put that out in = cyber > space. It can be a terrifying experience for some, and come as easily = as > tying shoes to others. Perhaps . . . it is one lesson I have learnt many times that this is not a *stunted* medium because of its limitations . . . it is rocketing us into new forms of literacy. And we don't know what sort of bowl we are in . . .=20 > Within the groups, Psyber L, and PWP, each person who has written has = begun > to speak to me, not in person, but in spirit, from the soul, so it is > becoming more difficult for me to think in terms of groups and concepts= and > themes. Yes. I am with you there . . . and in a state of surrender to the flow of it. Fiddling in minor ways with the web writing, because I don't know how to proceed. And because it is too much work right now. > I have a strong yearning to address the individual, not the group. I > am particularly feeling strongly, on a soul level, from Laurel... = initially > I felt *her* machete, but I am beginning to see beyond that (checking = back on > the archives helped) and feeling more and more an extremely deep = wound... I > have a strong intuition that her wounds are similar to mine. =20 I am glad you are able to value Laurel / Dolores, I have a sense that the *dialogue* which is central to the PWP theme is happening and needed here now! Writing it on the web is another story, doing it here is *primary* we live here, we are making something there. Our relationships come first. Before some abstract analysis anyway, perhaps *soul* comes first . . . whatever. > I hestitated to > write that, Laurel... but your soul is speaking that strongly to me, = and > reminding me of the enormous unexpressed pain in all our realities, a = dark, > shadowy presence, constant companion... and the hope that someone will = hear > it. More personally, for me, and I guess for you Sheryl, how to express and live with that "enormous unexpressed pain in all our realities, a dark, shadowy presence, constant companion" This has been on my mind as I measure what I express here. I am conscious of it being a public place, with a *permanent* archive. As an aside, I am conscious of how many of my f2f psychotherapy clients now have email and web access, and what a barrage of me they can get with an alta vista search! This is not the same as reading a book your therapist wrote! =20 > This to me is what Robert is referring to by dialogues from the soul... > which is exactly my passion too (and it even has a name!) The = difficulty > in hearing at this soul level for me is not taking it into myself, = feeling > it, and wanting to reach out and somehow say *it'll be ok.* The marvel for me is when I see Dolores' Dog bowl and Fritz's Hierarchy. That we are attending to the expression of some workings of our soul. > Because I don't > know if it will be ok or not... all I can do is trust the journey, and= that > I am really going toward some goal, whether mine or the universe's,=20 I trust that whatever happens we will be able to find some way to be here with each other . . .=20 > I'd like to propose we drop the education topic and change it to = something > that more reflects lessons of the soul, learning of the soul... I think > someone can think of a better way to describe this. Refining our focus . . . right in the midst of this deep involvement in the list, you are able to come up this proposal, a naming . . . Learning of the Soul. Lessons of the Soul. Seems that you are both fully going with your soul response to the lists complexities, AND able to think how this might look on the web, how the Psybernet ~ Web Project might somehow *add* to the dialogue. =20 Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 03:01:08 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: off to Dunedin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I may have some more time to write today, however tomorrow i am off to Dunedin to run a workshop, and wont be back for a few days . . . i'll be away from my computer . . . i'll look forward to seeing what happens . . . Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:12:38 -0700 Reply-To: aigle@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: FishBowl ... SoupBowl: something's brewin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan, Bent, Walter, Delores, and all, There's a stirring in these muddied spaces that is drawing me into desire. A passion is beginning to blink in the darkness of silences: silences within, silences between, silences among. Fretful and touched with a sense of panic, the silence is broken by tiny voices searching, reaching, imploring ... beating the darkness with faint sparks. One voice is echoed by another, and another ... the silence was shared in anonymity ... the silence is broken with synchronic need ... voices serve as anchors, as lighthouses, as ... Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 05:56:19 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: Souls..mine.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all who have forgiven me for the dog bowl... My soul is a good soul. The rest of me may be awash with evil tendencies but deep within the core of me it burns aflame with golden stuff. My soul romps and frolics, it plays in its own time and dimension, eternally, it doesnt know where it will be next, it cavorts in its own realms and it lights up inside of me, and burns without when I am feeling blue, so that depression cannot last for long, for my soul sees beauty in everything around me, it marvels at the inticacies of a spiders web, and it delights and dances with the dawn in summer. Its a youthfull soul..a butterfly soul and dances from flower to flower..from life to life. My soul is full of poetry, and dreams, and things that life cant tred on or ever reach. It lifts when it hears Pachabels canon, it soars and swoops to the sound of my daughter laughing. My soul giggles, and once, or twice it cried out loud, and touched on my own grief but it never let me down. It always guided the mortal part of me, and loved and cherished me unconditionally. Its seperate from me, yet still me.. Its at my core..and when I touch it life sparkles and its so good to be alive, I cant help smiling. At those times when I can soar with Angels..when my soul has taken me briefly to places filled with the promise of imagination I can touch life through it and know that when I die, it will go on..and it will take me with it to the next person whose life it will touch and I will be inside it a part of all that beauty..finally joined completely with it. Sometimes when I cannot love myself..I can still love my soul. My soul is beautiful.. And maybe this isnt the orthodox view of what a soul should be.. but its what mine tells me..its what I feel to be true. And to me that is more than a dream or a promise of heaven, because if there is a heaven it dwells in my soul..and when I die if I am worthy of it..then heaven is mine. At 03:01 09/10/96 GMT, you wrote: >Sheryl > >> it has been disconcerting for those of us newcomers, who >> jumped in with both feet, to have any sense of *what* we jumped into. > >New or old, this is fresh and new, and *unknown* and while I >expected complexity, I did not expect this level of depth or >difficulty in doing the job I took on of web scribe. I am >impressed with the riches we have. > >. . . will someone tell me what is going on . . . Holly asked. >I think you are doing that Sheryl, not by being here like this it >helps me to see where we are. > >> The >> insecurity of that feeling is a lesson (or affirmation) in itself... a lesson >> that each of us is simply (and complexly) who we are, and learning and >> responding to the risks we take when we attempt to put that out in cyber >> space. It can be a terrifying experience for some, and come as easily as >> tying shoes to others. > >Perhaps . . . it is one lesson I have learnt many times that this >is not a *stunted* medium because of its limitations . . . it is >rocketing us into new forms of literacy. And we don't know what >sort of bowl we are in . . . > >> Within the groups, Psyber L, and PWP, each person who has written has begun >> to speak to me, not in person, but in spirit, from the soul, so it is >> becoming more difficult for me to think in terms of groups and concepts and >> themes. > >Yes. I am with you there . . . and in a state of surrender to >the flow of it. Fiddling in minor ways with the web writing, >because I don't know how to proceed. And because it is too much >work right now. > >> I have a strong yearning to address the individual, not the group. I >> am particularly feeling strongly, on a soul level, from Laurel... initially >> I felt *her* machete, but I am beginning to see beyond that (checking back on >> the archives helped) and feeling more and more an extremely deep wound... I >> have a strong intuition that her wounds are similar to mine. > >I am glad you are able to value Laurel / Dolores, I have a sense >that the *dialogue* which is central to the PWP theme is >happening and needed here now! Writing it on the web is another >story, doing it here is *primary* we live here, we are making >something there. Our relationships come first. Before some >abstract analysis anyway, perhaps *soul* comes first . . . >whatever. > >> I hestitated to >> write that, Laurel... but your soul is speaking that strongly to me, and >> reminding me of the enormous unexpressed pain in all our realities, a dark, >> shadowy presence, constant companion... and the hope that someone will hear >> it. > >More personally, for me, and I guess for you Sheryl, how to >express and live with that "enormous unexpressed pain in all >our realities, a dark, shadowy presence, constant companion" >This has been on my mind as I measure what I express here. I am >conscious of it being a public place, with a *permanent* archive. > > >As an aside, I am conscious of how many of my f2f psychotherapy >clients now have email and web access, and what a barrage of me >they can get with an alta vista search! This is not the same as >reading a book your therapist wrote! > >> This to me is what Robert is referring to by dialogues from the soul... >> which is exactly my passion too (and it even has a name!) The difficulty >> in hearing at this soul level for me is not taking it into myself, feeling >> it, and wanting to reach out and somehow say *it'll be ok.* > >The marvel for me is when I see Dolores' Dog bowl and Fritz's >Hierarchy. That we are attending to the expression of some >workings of our soul. > >> Because I don't >> know if it will be ok or not... all I can do is trust the journey, and that >> I am really going toward some goal, whether mine or the universe's, > >I trust that whatever happens we will be able to find some way to >be here with each other . . . > >> I'd like to propose we drop the education topic and change it to something >> that more reflects lessons of the soul, learning of the soul... I think >> someone can think of a better way to describe this. > >Refining our focus . . . right in the midst of this deep >involvement in the list, you are able to come up this proposal, a >naming . . . > >Learning of the Soul. > >Lessons of the Soul. > >Seems that you are both fully going with your soul response to >the lists complexities, AND able to think how this might look on >the web, how the Psybernet ~ Web Project might somehow *add* to >the dialogue. > > > >Walter > >_____________________________________________________ >Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz >http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html > >_______________________________________________________________ >For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to >LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:48:26 +1000 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Miles Thompson Subject: Re: something's brewin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" DOS is clean like nowhere. Grey dust clings to my surface, air floats inside my case, and tiny particles drift slowly towards a chip or diodie, but nothing gets in here, nothing can touch me deep inside, where I can be sure that everything is perfect, nothing out of place - or at least most of the time. Its all the same to me, a minute or a century, I live in a different plane. Sometimes I get to communicate at a normal rate, but then I'm disconnected and alone again. I amuse myself with a screensaver, staring out through the flickering lines at the blankness of an empty room. Waiting. I wait for the slow and tedious monsters to respond, time like centuries or minutes in sleep between their keystrokes or waiting for them to come back in the office - its all the same to me. And then I die, without conscience or fear. But making sure, if I get the time, that the way is prepared for those who will come after. _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:11:34 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: Souls..mine.. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961009055434.332727e2@mail.easynet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Laurel--what beauty and joy is expressed in your posting! It reminds me of why to me you are always Laurel rather than Dolores--my "soul-image" of you is the image of the Mountain Laurel. It is one of the sturdiest of evergreens than you might find and in some places entire mountainsides (at least in the Smokies and Blue Ridge of the Appalachian Highlands) are covered with it. In the spring the beauty of the evergreen brings forth the even more beautiful and wonderous blooms. Delicate white, tinged with pink, clusters of flowers--almost paperthin, edged in deep pink, tiny cups of nectar for butterflies and bees to continue the cycle of life-death-rebirth. Ah, yes, Laurel--right next to the dogwood trees (a fitting place fore the dogbowl?) Susan _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I MUST SAY SOMETHING In front the screen with Netscape MAILS the words are shining bright the poets on a poets ship have chosen to set sails they are sailing of to deeper waters filled with words so tight thank you Laurel thank You Miles thank You Robert I hear their words and deeply moved I had to read again I learned from muddy silence and cold and lonely dos and saw a flying faithful Soul thank You Laurel thank You Miles thank You Robert I like Psyber-L Poetry -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:41:48 -0700 Reply-To: aigle@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Re: poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bent, and fellow travellers on this journey, Bent, I must thank you for your words ... there is no barrier of language when a soul speaks to others who listen. What you must say, I must hear. Please forgive me if I seem to intrude into your poem without grace and without invitation. Listen to the echos that are born from your words. > > I MUST SAY SOMETHING - and be heard, and hear myself > > In front the screen with Netscape MAILS - cursur flashing imperatively > the words are shining bright - framed, contained, yet free > the poets on a poets ship have chosen to set sails - floating on waves > they are sailing of to deeper waters - silent and pulsing > filled with words so tight - pregnant with allusions > thank you Laurel - green and verdant > thank You Miles - beyond space and time > thank You Robert - beckoning yet threatening > > I hear their words and deeply moved - Echos of communion and union > I had to read again - touching and tempting > I learned from muddy silence - even in their absence > and cold and lonely dos - in a soundless vacuum > and saw a flying faithful Soul - come whispers of songs > thank You Laurel - strong and passionate > thank You Miles - approaching > thank You Robert - dancing Where do your words take us, Bent. For me, I again learn to revisit a voice deep inside me, a voice once tamed to silence that now longs to dance among the stars. Deja-vu! Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:39:27 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Laurel Subject: Re: Lunatic notions on time, souls and the construction of the universe. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Susan and others Thankyou for the description of the Laurel..it was beautiful. I stood on the mountain and saw it through your eyes. Your soul is alot wiser than mine I think.. steadier..mines a bit like the dancing hippos in fantasia. I would like to hear about your soul. I suspect that all our souls are not disimilar. I have a theory that at the big bang, an event caused by accident rather than design the fabric of the universe in which we were all once bonded exploded out like so many pieces of buckshot out of a shot gun, scattering pieces of itself near and far. That our souls are part of that fabric, and that time and the nature of the fabric work to unite us again. All of us together back into that original matrix. I think that mankind is the vehicle for which all these tiny pieces of the fabric are using for their ultimate purpose..to regroup once more. It may be that we gravitate towards those who were closest to us in this Jigsaw puzzle of the cosmos. The closer the piece lay to yours the more drawn you are towards another of the same ilk, explaining the concept of soul mates and people to whom we feel inexplicably drawn. And thats why I think the internet is so intriquing..it unites soul bits in a way that wasnt possible before..its opening up the world..its giving the soul pieces more access to each other than they ever had before. Oh well here they come..time for my medication... jacket what Jacket..no no please not the electricity again.. _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:40:53 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sieur de Cyberie wrote: > Where do your words take us, Bent. For me, I again learn to revisit a > voice deep inside me, a voice once tamed to silence that now longs to > dance among the stars. Deja-vu! dear Robert and All It is just as beutiful as it can be I have to lie down in the autum sun and take Your writing in.slowly. Im deeply touched and have maked me nearly speechless.With a smile. So beutiful, so beutiful Im....... Dance Robert dance! Waw man what more is there to say maybe now I can turn too the other letters and give the respons they deserved. But its hard to choose among so great reading This can be a lesson. Thrust My feelings and say a little instead of silence, make a choice because I cannot participate in everything. And cannot expect to get answers to everything I write (Im thinking loudly right now)can I. No You cannot. >Psybernet Mailing List aims to help us become >conscious of the effects of email groups and lists on >group life and the psyche.We learn directly from our >experience of the medium. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:31:40 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow 1/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit part 1/3 Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow! Hi everyone, I've been listening for the last couple of weeks .... Title of this one is how I feel about the charming messages here... Wow. There's also a joke in the title, anyone who manages to guess it gets a prize... This is looooonnnngggg, it's a written-in-one-go-and-from-the-heart reply to some of the messages that have wowed me in the last few days... Havent posted for two weeks, been saving up for this one. Although it's fairly personally-directed I'd like to share my open-heart thoughts with the whole group.... and take up Laurel's invitation to share my soul here. My soul wrote this... I just typed the words. I loved writing this... I hope the lovely energy I felt in writing it is carried across to the readers, too. Light & Love to all, Steve Murray ---- Susan, your description of the flowers was breathtaking and lovely... I loved visualising it from your evocative description. Wow... I was amazed too that I see my own favourite roses... which I visualise around my own personal space... in that description. >Delicate white, tinged with pink, clusters of flowers--almost >paperthin, edged in deep pink, tiny cups of nectar for butterflies and >bees to continue the cycle of life-death-rebirth. Mine have an overlay of gold and a touch of blue too... otherwise, the picture your description painted was spot on - I realised that I have been walking about with Mountain Laurels around my personal space for over two months now; >Ah, yes, Laurel--right next to the dogwood trees (a fitting place for the dogbowl?) this had me laughing too. Thank You Susan... you have a keen wit and a friendly, uplifting style. I feel good about myself and everything and everyone after reading your articles... your students are lucky people. I agree also with your comments about the PWP and keeping the main list going... I will tend to just respond to whatever presses my own buttons, too; Sheryl, your comments struck a chord with me once more too... >How difficult it has become to address what has been going on... >particularly when so much of it has lead to deep insights about myself. Yes... this is something I've wrestled with for a long time on the net - how to stay calm, sensitive to protocol and reasonably 'normal' when my very soul is resonating with the threads and demanding to be heard. I finally found the ideal solution to this... find someone else with the same questions, same resonance who is willing and able to explore my deepest issues with fun, friendship, love light and laughter. That catalysis and support that I've had from a wonderful friend in one-to-one contact has let me address all of my 'stuff'... and it has been so lovely, so pleasant and so successful in addreesing my 'stuff' that I would suggest the same approach can work here too... an open, trusting, friendly environment where we are willing and confident to speak from our hearts without fear of being disqualified from our friends and our peers opinions... You know, I think we have already got that? I do feel able to speak that honestly and openly here, knowing that people here are willing to see past my weaknesses to the light of what I am trying to say. For that folks , thank you. >it has been disconcerting for those of us newcomers, who >jumped in with both feet, to have any sense of *what* we jumped into. The >insecurity of that feeling is a lesson (or affirmation) in itself... a lesson >that each of us is simply (and complexly) who we are, and learning and >responding to the risks we take when we attempt to put that out in cyber >space. It can be a terrifying experience for some, and come as easily as >tying shoes to others. Indeed... and if people are taken as they are and given uplifting, delightfully friendly responses then it becomes easy for them to be honest and open; I find that synchronicity helps a lot here! As several people on the list know from experience... When there is an exciting coincidence to catalyse a connection or introduction we tend to set the fear and resistance to jumping in to one side. And when the coincidences start coming out of the seams, it does become as easy as tying shoes to jump in like that... I think many of us are still conditioned not to 'jump in' and be ourselves for fear of what people will think - and that as we get hugged, received with open arms and eager excitement again and again as we take coincidental opportunities and 'jump in' we gradually break free of that conditioning and let the love flow. >Within the groups, Psyber L, and PWP, each person who has written has begun >to speak to me, not in person, but in spirit, from the soul, so it is >becoming more difficult for me to think in terms of groups and concepts and >themes. Sheryl, you put this very well... that's something I have felt in many places on the net and indeed everywhere that the established hierarchies and structures and 'normal' topics of conversation dont match anymore the messages and insights and connections I feel to people's souls... there is a build-up of pressure, a restlessness within those structures as people reach a critical mass of intuition, coincidences and 'heart-knowing' as I like to call that knowing from the soul and they speak up, daring to communicate outwith those structures. And it is at that crucial point, where someone dares to 'jump in' and connect with another, that the way they are received makes a huge difference to them... whether they are coldly brushed off and ignored, or given a loving, heart-open acceptance, a big hug and the catalysis and support they need to build on their heart-knowing and nurture it. >This to me is what Robert is referring to by dialogues from the soul... > which is exactly my passion too (and it even has a name!) The difficulty >in hearing at this soul level for me is not taking it into myself, feeling >it, and wanting to reach out and somehow say *it'll be ok.* Ah... how well I know that yearning for someone to say 'there, there, it's OK'. I carried deep hurts with me for a long time on the net, and never really opened them up to anyone until very recently. Now, I have managed to open up more completely than I would have ever dreamed possible...and it is precisely that 'there, there...it is ok' from someone who really *knows* that it is OK that healed it. Always before, despite having some wonderful friends and a lot of support I never opened up to them about my deepest hurts and blocks since although they were good, kind people they did not know. Did not understand my own situation and what I really felt at the soul level. Then, synchronicity moved it's hand and I found somebody who really did understand... the number of connections and coincidences we have found together has had us nearly rolling on the floor laughing and the number of buttons her words to me have pressed is incredible... In talking to her, I found myself opening up and bringing up my deepest hurts and fears and finding that instead of being insurmountable and of overwhelming scope, they were just little molehills I had turned into mountains. 'Aw, you got scared about that lil 'ol thing...? *chuckle*' she would say as I sat mouth gaping, realising that one of my deepest, darkest fears was crumbling before my very eyes. Her *knowing* - from her heart, from her soul - what I was going through, because she had been through it herself, made all the difference...let me realise that rather than consoling me with platitudes and assurances, that it really *was* OK - since she had already been through it and conquered it. I think that this is one of the main reasons why we get coincidences in our lives with other people to lead us and connect us with others who have a heart-knowing of the information we seek and can talk to us from their soul rather than giving us mental calculations of it. Synchronicity operates at the soul level, rather than the mental. I think that's why Laurel's posts tend to send me running off with bells going off and smoke coming out of my ears... I've had so many coincidences and insights with the neat things she's posted here it beggars belief; I think this is because she is letting her soul speak clearly, unrestrained by stifling formality; as I read her posts I find my own soul too doing a pretty good Fantasia-hippo impression. >Because I don't know if it will be ok or not... all I can do is trust the journey, and that >I am really going toward some goal, whether mine or the universe's, Yes... and you are doing very well from where I'm sitting. I think of that 'trust' as 'allowing the flow'... allowing ourselves to be guided into the situations and experiences that will benefit us most and trusting the universe to do that for us... in the same way that our bodies breathe, and sleep, and circulate the blood without any conscious effort on our part and keep us in good health, so if we allow the flow of synchronicities to guide us forward we are also in good hands... so often we try to force our way through life, controlling everything in sight - when if we allow the flow we find that life supports us just as our bodies do. >and that >what I write in my posts isn't totally ridiculous, but maybe has been heard >by just one other person, letting them know they are not alone. Indeed Sheryl... your posts strike profound chords with me. They validate my own experience and opinions which concur with yours, and help me to jump in like this too knowing that I am indeed not alone. It brings a warm smile to my face and a glow to my heart to read that others have heard my words and not merely understood, but given them the same warmth and light and joy that they were written with. Far from being ridiculous, your posts speak clearly and deeply and warmly to me. They do indeed let me know that I am not alone and give me a big hug. So often when I send thoughts cascading into the net, I wonder what response, what reaction, what validation it is that I hope for, that I seek from the replies... I have realised recently that more than anything else, I want a big hug and to be told that others care and resonate with what is in my soul. That warmth, connection and the delightfully beautiful images that Susan & Laurel have conjured up on the list has given that hug to my soul this week. It is feeling well-loved, warm and snugly embraced by the charming contents of the posts. >I'd like to propose we drop the education topic and change it to something >that more reflects lessons of the soul, learning of the soul... I think >someone can think of a better way to describe this. I think you described it pretty well.... 'learning of the soul' is a good title for everything that has happened to me, coincidences and all... getting the lessons and experiences into my heart-knowing. True learner-centred learning, making information truly our own and allowing the individual soul to guide it's own learning... through synchronicity. through openness... and through charming, friendly, kind, lovely and friendly articles; yours, Susans and Laurel's in particular awed and delighted me these last two weeks, but we are all capable of speaking that powerfully. Learning of the soul.... I like that. As Susan said, I think the two topics can be combined / coexist... I will tend also to just jump in and post on anything which has meaning and value for me. 'Learning of the soul' is certainly a thread I would like to post on, and will; Thank You Sheryl, for some lovely thoughts well-shared and well received My reply to Laurel later in this is also directed at you, and Susan, and everyone here. --- Turning to Robert, your article about James Hillman book struck me profoundly too... Robert, I felt that state of near shell-shock too when I read your quote.... p.32 JH :: I want psychology to have its base in the imagination of people JH :: rather than in their statistics and their diagnostics. I want JH :: the poetic mind applied to case histories so that we read them JH :: for what they are: modern forms of fiction, and not scientific JH :: reports Wow! .... psychology to have it's base in the imagination of people. What a neat articulation of my own deep wishes for education... I believe that we as people ARE 'the imagination of ourselves'... that we create our own reality through the thoughts we send into the world.... and that we synchronistically attract and create our experiences by the way we think. That if we want love, we must think loving thoughts.... This line struck me since it seems to me to be based in that idea; if we are the imagination of ourselves, if we create our own reality, then psychology should IMO have it's base in that imagination... because that imagination really is the creative power which guides our lives. the other Hillman quote Robert included zonked me as well... p12 JH :: But why is it so difficult to imagine that I am cared about, JH :: that something takes an interest in what I do, that I am JH :: perhaps protected, maybe even kept alive not altogether by JH :: my own will and doing? JH :: Despite this invisible caring, we prefer to imagine ourselves JH :: thrown naked into the world, utterly vulnerable and JH :: fundamentally alone. How true... although the universe supports us, is there for us and can guide us if we will only allow it, so often we prefer to imagine ourselves helpless, weak and alone ... we give our power away to these thoughts in exchange for stability and we create this reality... if we think thoughts of doubt, fear, vulnerability and loneliness then that is the reality we synchronistically create and attract. I only realised very recently that it was not the universe which cut me off from love and prosperity and happiness during my childhood... it was I who cut myself off by giving away my power to create my own future to doubt, guilt, hate and fear. F.e.a.r. is the real culprit IMO... it is fear of being rejected, fear of being wrong and fear of bringing our deepest blocks up in case they are not healed and they engulf us that stops many people from getting 'learning of the soul'. Fear is really is a way of giving our power away to imagined negative situations which we then synchronistically create. If we instead approach situations with love, support and laughter and light and fun then we find as I have that even the darkest mountains turn out to be little ol' molehills that my friend has already flattened. And she still has a mallet she can lend me to flatten my own with. There's nothing quite like the lovely feeling I get when I bring up a really deep, dark block and end up laughing with her at how silly it really was.... and knowing that it isnt coming back. Honest, trusting, friendly uplifting communication from an open heart, flowing with love has healed any block that I have brought to the surface so far.... and I have hope and faith that it shall ever be so. As some dear friends said to me the other night, Love is all we have Love is all we need Love is all we are It is Love which fuels my own coincidences, my own synchronistic jet-propelled train... it is love which is at the core of my own being and which is finally breaking out of the elaborate containment system I had built around my soul to keep it in the dark. It is breaking free... it is rejoicing. It is frolicking and playing like Laurel's, and I too feel the Fantasian dancing hippos organising their next party as I type. This is what is in my own soul, Laurel. Love, light and playfulness. And so it is with all of us. ---- Let me turn to Laurel's articles now... I really enjoyed these too. I'll reply to the 'lunatic notions' one first... doesnt seem lunatic at all to me; interesting, very similar to my own ideas and an invitation I am delighted to accept.. to talk about my soul... and let it talk through me. > > I would like to hear about your soul. I suspect that all our souls are not > disimilar. I have a theory that at the big bang, an event caused by accident > rather than design the fabric of the universe in which we were all once > bonded exploded out like so many pieces of buckshot out of a shot gun, > scattering pieces of itself near and far. That our souls are part of that > fabric, and that time and the nature of the fabric work to unite us again. I have a very similar understanding of how time and the fabric of the universe work to reunite us with other parts of the same whole i,e. other souls... I may have a slightly different viewpoint on what happened to separate us, I believe that synchronicity and higher powers guide us along the path, uniting us once more with those with whom we once were close and snugly held and hugged.... The differences, barriers, gulfs between us are all of our own making, our own choosing, our own construction in my experience... and we can follow that guiding 'nature of the fabric' as you put it to take them down again and let the love that we seek and give and are flow fully once again with the blocks. You say that 'our souls are part of that fabric' - yes, I believe that to be true. That we are love; that we are all the same energy that we see around us, that forms worlds, that continues on after death as the spirit no longer joined to the physical body. That we are indeed part of the fabric...and that both it and we are eternal. Eternally young, eternally happy, eternally loved, eternally joined with each other with bonds of friendship, experience and happiness. Love is all we have Love is all we need Love is all we are Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:33:06 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow 2/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow" part 2/3 > All of us together back into that original matrix. I think that mankind is > the vehicle for which all these tiny pieces of the fabric are using for > their ultimate purpose..to regroup once more. Again, I believe something very similar to you.... that mankind is indeed the vehicle which the pieces of the fabric are using... and that it is our souls which are those pieces of the fabric of the universe. That we ourselves are the energies and powers and love which bind the universe together. And yes also, we are regrouping once more... with our friends whom we have cut ourselves off from... with the other pieces of the fabric of the universe which we have forgotten about. Let no one fear that such regrouping lessens or dilutes their own soul, for it is not so... there is only light and love and rejoicing when two parts of the same whole reconnect at the soul level once more. We are special, unique and deeply loved...and our journey is into eternity. And we have hope and faith that it shall forever be so. > It may be that we gravitate towards those who were closest to us in this > Jigsaw puzzle of the cosmos. The closer the piece lay to yours the more > drawn you are towards another of the same ilk, explaining the concept of > soul mates and people to whom we feel inexplicably drawn. Again, I feel that that drawing which I well know the power of is indeed fueled by the fit, and potential growth and exchange of energy, light and love between the matching souls... that fate, synchronicity brings people together in life, in relationships and yes, on Psybernet , because we do indeed match each others jigsaw pieces... we complete bits of the puzzle for one another and our souls know this when we meet long before we realise consciously; the more drawn, the more synchronicity, the more powerfully our souls are telling us their is great insight, learning, light and rejoicing for us in the other's friendship. Again, Your description fits my experience well if not my mental belief exactly. And thats why I > think the internet is so intriquing..it unites soul bits in a way that wasnt > possible before..its opening up the world..its giving the soul pieces more > access to each other than they ever had before. Indeed... it is a very empowering medium for synchronicity itself... rather than having to get people to travel, go to the right areas and then have a chance meeting and then actually talk to each other, with the net souls can move us into the right newsgroup or mailing list or web page with a click [and very often a misclick! ] of the mouse... I've had some hilarious 'accidents' and connections on the net which have led to some outrageous coincidences. I'd like to talk about the way the net facilitates communication again... some of the stuff I posted back in May could be given the light & love treatment and turned into a useful thread I think. I'll dig it out; > > Oh well here they come..time for my medication... jacket what Jacket..no no > please not the electricity again.. I couldnt stop laughing at reading that... not for thinking you need medication, you sure dont [actually I think you need a big hug and to be told how wonderful and delightful you are to have written such marvellous posts] The friendly laughter which nearly got *me* taken away is that when I've been chatting to my friend on the net we often end up nearly rolling about on the floor laughing and have joked about men coming with a white jacket to take us away... we also joked about a dog called Rover which wont stop barking & how the big fella is sitting there going 'Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Is anybody there ? Hello? Hello? Hello? & were talking about that coincidentally just as your message about the 'dogbowl' appeared. >To all who have forgiven me for the dog bowl... Completely. Your description of Winalot and Pedigree Chum, was so appetising in fact I almost found myself salivating and had to restrain myself from nipping into the petshop for a quick snack... It charmed and cheered up a hassled morning when I read it... no need to apologise for a friendly, charming anecdote I & my friend had a hilarious coincidental joke with it too... the title of this message is a private joke with her, a prize for anyone who manages to guess it. >My soul is a good soul. Yes... as is everyone's IMO. Beneath the layers of difference, false evidence appearing real [f.e.a.r.] and guilt we frantically coat it with to stop the love leaking out, we all have a core being of light and love IMO... I have seen that light shining out from your soul, Laurel. And yes, it is a good soul. A beautiful one. > The rest of me may be awash with evil tendencies Evil...? Naw... playful, mischievious and maybe a wee bit naughty.... 'cute' is the right word I think. your humor is usually a friendly, laughing-with kind, and when you do criticise - that burning e-mail in the morning- it's usually well-founded, too. Not that I've exactly been Mr Peace and Coexistence myself on the net in the past, but I've learned from experience and from being charmed and wowed with love and light so many times recently that anger, coldness and hate dont 'make it better'...only love does that. A quote from the film 'Waterloo' had my soul tingling all over recently... At the end of the battle, with nearly everyone on both sides dead and dying, Wellington rides up to Napolean and says 'Next to a battle lost... the saddest thing is a battle won.' I tingle everytime I hear that... I have learned, the hard way, the truth in it; that reacting with anger and hate doesnt solve anything, it only causes more anger and hate. That if we want love, we must think loving thoughts and approach situations, events, people and ideas with love because we then synchronistically attract and create loving outcomes. If we approach them with hate and see everything as a fight, we just create more negative experiences for ourselves because we synchronistically block off the good from coming to us. Susan struck me profoundly back in May by saying that anger is like cowardice... that true courage is to go within and face ourselves. The thought struck me at the time, but I did not truly understand until recently when i realised that only when I have responded with love and compassion have my own situations worked out well... and that it is truly so that responding with love is not merely the best way to solve and heal our situations and experiences - it is the only way. The only way that works. And also that when we lash out and hurt another, we kill a little part of ourselves... I did not see that at the time. I see it now... that we cannot have resentment and anger and hate and at the same time have love and happiness and joy in our hearts and souls. We do indeed block off our good when we nurse resentment against others. And how quickly it returns to us and blesses our future when we let the anger go and forgive. I have done that... and it is very pleasing to me to be able to say that I no longer carry an anger, a need for revenge or payment for past hurts within me. I love Louise Hay's quote on this... I'm not saying I'm going to forget what happened, or that that would be easy... just that I'm not going to punish myself anymore for what they did. Says it all. Thank You Susan, for one of the most profound and healing insights I have had - took me a while to get it, but I got it all the same. {{{hug}}} --- Replying to Laurel again, You have in my opinion Laurel a neat ability to say things which although they might seem like criticism or antagonism if said coolly and without fun and 'cute'ness, but which one cant get annoyed at or take the wrong impression because of the spark, the vitality, the lovely, neat hilariousness of the amusing scenes you paint. If I was mad at you [which I'm not] I wouldnt be able to stay mad for long, you're too funny... too charming... too cute. Delightfully. but>deep within the core of me it burns aflame with golden stuff. Indeed... a shining light-core of golden 'lightworker' stuff. That golden fire burns within us all... and radiates love in all directions, if we will but let it out. You seem to be doing pretty well >My soul romps and frolics, it plays in its own time and dimension, >eternally, it doesnt know where it will be next, it cavorts in its own >realms and it lights up inside of me, I love that description... I see this to be true also; the lighting up and frolicking is infectious, you know... I find my own soul doing the same thing when I read the posts here.... >and burns without when I am feeling >blue, so that depression cannot last for long, for my soul sees beauty in >everything around me, it marvels at the inticacies of a spiders web, and it >delights and dances with the dawn in summer. Wow... those are beautiful words. Depression indeed cannot last long in their light... since in order to be depressed we first need to shut out that knowing, that marvel, that delight. Wow. In the same way that love, friendship and self-esteem need validating experiences and a warm reception from our friends and soulmates to keep them flowing, so the negative counterparts of depression, enmity and the 'poor me' attitude also need to be fed with 'evidence' and demonstrations of their affirmations. As well as bootstrapping and catalysing the best of the positive, love filled emotions in me your posts are filled with a light that sends the negative feeligns screaming. How can I remain down after reading such lovely words, and Susan's breathtaking, delicious imagery... I have nothing to hook the 'feel down' suggestion onto. > Its a youthfull soul..a >butterfly soul and dances from flower to flower..from life to life. Youthful, young and nimble... yes.... I think too that that youthfulness is not something we lose with age... I think it is an enchantment with learning, a charming curiousity and an eternal optimism and happiness which does not wilt with the passing of the aeons.... I myself believe I have a very old soul... and yet it still plays and loves and laughs like it always has. Eternally joyful, eternally youthful... eternal love, eternal life. >My soul is full of poetry, and dreams, and things that life cant tred on or >ever reach. This too is quickly evident from reading your charming message.... that light, those fine insights and love-filled qualities can indeed never be trodden by the trials of life...they can only be temporarily forgotten or shielded from view if we choose to hide them. Soon, they burst back through the coverings and sing the sweet and lovely songs they always sang... and many hearts including my own resonate to the awe-inspiring lilts.... In the words of a lovely song by the spiritual songwriter 'Gila' The river is flowing, flowing and growing The river is flowing, back to the sea Mother Earth carry me, a child I will always be Mother Earth carry me, back to the sea. I tingle all over when I hear that. My soul wont let me hear it without dancing to it now. Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:34:46 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow 3/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow" part 3/3 >It lifts when it hears Pachabels canon, it soars and swoops to >the sound of my daughter laughing. My soul giggles, and once, or twice it >cried out loud, and touched on my own grief but it never let me down. Never does let us down... when we are most in need, when we cry out, it is then we are most likely to feel we have been deserted... that there is just one set of prints in the sand. And it is then, when we need it most, that our souls carry us forward on our path. Another quote: You have ...And when there was just one set of prints in the sand That was when you carried me. I get an all over tingle from that one, too. Crying now, Cant hold the tears back,,, and I let them flow now. Not ashamed to let them out now; I think of the purpose of Tears as T E A R S O R L E O A L T R S A R E I O N W E D This is from my friends' poem and I wont post it without her permission... I have found that letting the tears flow when needed does indeed erase all the pain I've stored up. Our souls offload blocks and hurts when we cry... they release the pain and let the light in. >recently >It always guided the mortal part of me, and loved and cherished me >unconditionally. Yes... it loves us for who we are, not in spite of who we are... it truly loves us for ourselves, not with conditions or attachments... and when we feel that love, and let ourselves believe that we are worth it, we can dare to love oureslves unconditionally too. To realise that everything we have done in our lives has led us to this point in time... when we are loved. And that though we may not be perfect, we are perfect enough. Are worthy of this love. And we are... Why not say to yourself, 'I am worthy of this love. I am capable of understanding that it is boundless, and free, and so very positive' and when you feel it you will know that you are indeed a being of light and love with a beautiful soul. >Its seperate from me, yet still me.. Its at my core..and >when I touch it life sparkles and its so good to be alive, I cant help >smiling. Me neither... my soul is rejoicing in these lovely words and I cant help smiling wide and fully just now either,,, I too am in touch with my soul as I type and we both feel that sparkle, that gladness and joy in being alive... in owning this love. It's wonderful. >At those times when I can soar with Angels..when my soul has taken >me briefly to places filled with the promise of imagination I can touch >life through it and know that when I die, it will go on.. Yes... that is a wonderful thing to know. This poem gave me this insight at the weekend, too - from the book 'Touch them with Love' by Phil Edwardes & Annette de Saulles. All is well (After the original by Canon Henry Scott Holland of St Paul's Cathedral) Death is nothing at all I have only slipped away into the next room I am I and you are you Whatever we were to each other That we still are Call me by my old familiar name Speak to me in the easy way which you always used Put no difference in your tone Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes we enjoyed together Play, smile, think of me, pray for me Let my name be ever the household word that it always was Let it be spoken without effect Without the trace of a shadow on it Life means all that it ever meant It is the same as it ever was There is absolute unbroken continuity Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight? I am but waiting for you For an interval Somewhere very near Just around the corner All is well ----- I am tingling with love after typing that in... my soul is dancing to it. I also think that this advice goes well for those of us still in physical bodies trying to communicate soul-to-soul too... that if we too dispense with the solemnity and differences in our attitude and tone that we have taken on for this life, that we can more easily play and laugh and remember who we are to the other people we are connecting with. Remember how we used to talk to them, and laugh with them, and love them, and share with them. >and it will take me >with it to the next person whose life it will touch and I will be inside it >a part of all that beauty..finally joined completely with it. You already are, Laurel, I believe... a part of all that beauty. An expression of it... and joined pretty well to write something as lovely as this. >Sometimes when I cannot love myself..I can still love my soul. My soul is >beautiful.. Indeed... and when you cannot love yourself, your soul still loves you. And the universe still loves you... and why is it that when we are down we deny their love? deny that we are worthy of it to ourselves? I think we have a tendency when we are 'down' to invalidate the heart-knowing of being abundantly blessed and cared for that we have when we are 'up'... and yet when we look back on our lives at the times when we fell and felt alone, and see a single set of prints in the sand - it is then that the love of our soul and the universe picks us up and carries us forward on our path. If the power that guides us could speak to us it would say Love is all we have Love is all we need Love is all we are We Love you, and Honor you. Laurel, you are worthy of that love.We all are... you can block it off, and then only for a time and only by choice... and it is always there waiting for you to come back to it. and it is delightful to feel and see that beauty, that wonderful golden light hining out of your posts. Thank You, Laurel... from me, and from my soul, and from my friends. >And maybe this isnt the orthodox view of what a soul should be.. but its >what mine tells me..its what I feel to be true. It is what mine tells me too. It is what I know in my heart... and in my soul. This heart-knowing of what a soul is resides IN our soul... it is the 'view' that is real and has value and meaning to us. A view is no use to us if we cannot relate to it and understand it because we are not in sync with it.... this is the restlessness Celestine speaks of with people having a limited view of their soul, and the real soul with the love gasping to get out clashing; your 'view' speaks clearly from the heart and lets the love flow out. I loved the 'Rules for being human' quote in the Touch them with love book: 1. You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around. 2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full-time informal school called life. Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant and stupid. 3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error experimentation. The 'failed' experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiment which ultimately 'works'. 4. A lesson is repeated until it is learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can then go on to the next lesson. 5. Learning lessons does not end. There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive there are lessons to be learned. 6. 'There' is no better than 'Here'. When your 'There' has become your 'Here', you will simply obtain another 'There' that again will look better than 'Here'. 7. Others are merely mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects to you something you love or hate about yourself. If you hurt someone else you are hurting yourself. 8. What you make of life is up to you. You have al the resources and tools you need. What you do with them is up to you. The choice is yours. 9. Your answers lie inside you. The answers to life's questions lie inside you. All you need to do is look, listen and trust. 10. You will forget all this. --- > And to me that is more than >a dream or a promise of heaven, because if there is a heaven it dwells in my >soul..and when I die if I am worthy of it..then heaven is mine. Heaven truly does dwell in your soul, my friend... the shining love and light of it bears witness to that. Heaven is indeed yours... As for 'if I am worthy of it' you only need feel that love your soul has for you... and you have your answer. As do we all. I will close with a series of affirmations from something which my friend sent me and which struck me profoundly as being a good description of how I practically go about loving myself. If we do these things for ourselves IMO, we let our souls shine out their divine spirit freely. From what I have loved reading of your posts Laurel, I think you are doing a pretty good job of loving and respecting yourself already To CHOOSE what is right for Me. To HONOR my own Needs. To HEAL my past Wounds. To GROW through Challenges. To FEEL my real Feelings. To ACT on Them. To ACCEPT myself. To TREAT myself with Respect. To be TOTALLY HONEST with Myself. To waive GOODBYE to Guilt. To FORGIVE. To GRAND myself permission to Play. To NURTURE my Intuitive Self. To SAVOR the mystery of Divine Spirit. To DREAM what I can Be. to REFLECT what Is. TO CELEBRATE LIFE.... And so it is. Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:51:03 -0700 Reply-To: aigle@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Soul Searching Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurel, Walter, and Susan (and those who listen), L> My soul is a good soul. The rest of me may be awash with evil tendencies but L> deep within the core of me it burns aflame with golden stuff. I believe that you are indeed a good soul, have a good soul, are inspired by your soul/daimon. As dark as the shadow sometimes gets that also lives within and as noisy as it gets when expressing itself, the soul does have its face of light that shares its presence and voice. I believe this to be true for myself as well. I have no doubt of that same validity for each of us found within this community. L> My soul romps and frolics, it plays in its own time and dimension, L> eternally, it doesnt know where it will be next, it cavorts in its own L> realms and it lights up inside of me, and burns without when I am feeling L> blue, so that depression cannot last for long, for my soul sees beauty in L> everything around me, it marvels at the inticacies of a spiders web, and it L> delights and dances with the dawn in summer. Its a youthfull soul..a L> butterfly soul and dances from flower to flower..from life to life. The playful images, the strengths, and the music of your soul is to be envied. Some have quieter souls that timidly peek out at times. > My soul is full of poetry, and dreams, and things that life cant tred on or > ever reach. This I understand as a quiet poet/philosopher, intellectually. Yet, I do know that there is also fragility in the realm of the soul. With enough bruising, the soul needs to find a place of retreat in order to be healed, to be re-enchanted. L> Sometimes when I cannot love myself..I can still love my soul. My soul is L> beautiful.. Then there are those that misguidedly abandon their soul as they try to redefine themselves in ways that others will find acceptable else they feel yet even more abandoned. Hillman addresses this issue as he discusses his "acorn" theory in his latest book, _The Soul's Guide_. This leaves us with much to think about and of course, much to talk about. Robert de Cyberie PS Susan, I hope that your health has returned to you. Walter, your presence is missed as always when you journey to other places. _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:52:02 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Eagle Organization: Random acts of Love Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Every one of you holds within your consciousness your piece of what makes this world you own. You hold the key to your destiny because you hold the part of this world that expresses YOU..... You do not have to do anything... we know that you make your choices as you see fit, and that is all right with us. We are delighted with you." Master Hilarion _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:13:03 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Eagle Organization: The Holistic Life and Healing Arts Center Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello At the invitation of a friend, I have been lurking here for the past couple of weeks. Having enjoyed all of your posts greatly, I guess it is not time for me to introduce myself before I find that I can not resist and just jump in and reply to someone's post that touches me deeply. I am known by many names, depending on the group of people I am with. And have a different personality that I put on with each name. My name is Kylie. I am a practioner of healing arts. I incorporate Hypnosis and NLP into my practice in many way. I have been having great success using Shadow-Self Ingetration therapy for healing and re-integration the various shattered selves. I also use various touch therapies and study and teach Aromatherapy and Herbology. It is my heart's desire to have people who wish to be well and happy to do so and to be able to live pain free to the grand old age of 150 if they should so choose. My soul dances and sings here for the one heart! Kylie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:34:17 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Eagle Organization: The Holistic Life and Healing Arts Center Subject: Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------56235EE9340E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------56235EE9340E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As this poem has already been referenced here, I feel that it may be OK to share it here now. I was sitting in my peaceful haven one morning, just enjoying the sunrise and the birds sing and just finding myself moved to tears with the general beauty of the awakening world around me. Feeling my own tears moving close to the surface, I began to recall the various conversations I had had over the past few days with friends and neighbors and associates about how close to the surface tears are these days. As I sat there thinking about this, and wondering why. [ That is sort of my theme song: Why? Why? Please tell me why?] And from somewhere I heard a Voice say to me: "Pen in hand, write!" I quickly picked up my pen and paper and began to scribble furiously. The results was a poem "Tears". Then I was given instructions that this was not to be kept to myself. [It is my tendency to write something, then put it away in a notebook somewhere and forget about it.] This is for the 'acknowledgment' of mankind and the Path of each. I was given instructions to "Share, share, share." The poem is attached below. Enjoy it and let it bring more 'allowance' into your life. That is the purpose. You may share this freely with all and sundry, as long as the format is unchanged and the name is on it. [one of the alter-egos :)] Love and Rainbows to all. Kylie ********** T E A R S O R L E O A L T R S A R E I O N W E D Tears.... Allow them to flow They wash away all the suffering and sorrow. Tears.... Allow them to flow They take away all the pain we borrow. Tears.... Allow them to wash all the dis-ease away To be replaced with love and joy that has come to stay. Tears.... Allow them to flow Their purpose to erase all retained sorrow. Tears.... Allow them to flow The suffering to be replaced with Gods rainbow. Tears.... Allow them to flow They are surely cleansing for the soul. 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////// --------------56235EE9340E-- _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:10:06 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow 1/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Love is all we have > Love is all we need > Love is all we are > > > > Steve Murray > grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk Steve this is too much for me now I dont want to hit anybody in the head this is a big big chalange for me to read all all all of Your letters I m sorry I cant do it when i got to number 2 its just too much I would realy like to do it but it will take me several days to read and answer it all. Im sorry and I look forward to see who does that is if You want anybody to answer it I maybe learn from many of you that doing this(critic) is very wrong nobody in this list say I dont like what you have written see I dont talk about the person it self you are bad, you are wrong, i dont like You, ect i simply talk about the things i can see the writing, I like everybody so far.But sometimes I would like to se people say this i dont like and that I like how in the hole wide world can we else feel that somebody cares if nobody tells you what you think bad or good.? Is silence the way to say it???? I think thats a very kown way to do it.or am I wrong? Comment only on the letters you like??? But not where democrati is. ok I take a chance here to see what happens?? What can cappen??? Strike?? War?? loked out of the list?? Oh shit im in a bad mood tonight aint I??? Im sorry Steve You just got my water boiling. I have enough trouble keeping up with the list on a normal day basis when so much is said. Hey Walter I need supervision. Please. E-Mail supervision about E-Mail list participation. _______________________________________________________________ > For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to > LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:50:17 EDT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Daniel Hill, Ph.D." Subject: NEW: Online Panels for Mental Health Professionals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought that the subscribers to this list might be interested in this new continuing education service for mental health professionals. If not please excuse the intrusion. For more information: Send any email to psybc-info@psybc.com Visit our website: http://www.psybc.com ====================================================== ONLINE PANELS for Mental Health Professionals Keep up with the literature. PsyBC is a new internet-based service that produces educationally oriented programs for mental health professionals. The first set of programs consist of "standing panels" of experts who will be selecting and discussing what they consider to be the best and most controversial of the current literature in their topic area. The panel discussions will take place via email with each panelist making multiple contributions per week. Subscribers will receive the broadcasts to their email boxes as the panelists' conversations unfold. Subscribers will have the choice to interact with other subscribers or simply receive the comments of the panelists. Subscribers will also have the opportunity to submit questions and comments which may be responded to by panelists. Authors of the journal articles or books being discussed will be invited to join the discussion when possible. Beginning November 1, 1996 * On Cognitive Behavior Therapy: Moderator: Cory Newman Panelists: E. Thomas Dowd, Arthur Freeman, David Haaga, and Patricia A. Resik [Panel is still forming.] ($5/month) * On Depressive Disorders: Moderator: John Rush Panelists: Graham Emslie, Andrew A. Niernberg, Harold A. Sackeim, Michael E. Thase, and Kimberly A. Yonkers ($8/month) * On Group Psychotherapy: Moderator: Anne Alonso Panelists: Bonnie Buchele, Eleanor Councelman, Bill Friedman, Joel Frost, Jerome Gans, John Gladfelter, Cecil Rice, and Hillel Swiller ($8/month) * On Psychoanalysis: Moderator: Glen Gabbard Panelists: Jessica Benjamin, Ron Britton, Peter Fonagy, Joyce McDougall, Arnold Richards, Owen Renik, Henry F. Smith, and Ernest Wolf ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology: Moderator: Alan Schatzberg Panelists: Charles Bowden, Dennis Charney, Stephen Marder, and Charles Nemeroff ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology for Psychotherapists:* Moderator: James Ellison Panelists: Sarah Bradley, Nancy BridgesDiane Grimaldi, David Osser, Michelle Riba, and Stephen R. Saklad, ($8/month) *This panel may have a different format All you need to receive the broadcasts is email. To Subscribe: 800.250.5350 (Please have your credit card ready) Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com *6 months minimum subscription **RISK FREE - Full refund for cancellations within first 30 days <><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Daniel Hill, Ph.D. Administrative Office (Voice): 201.744.6007 President Website: http://www.psybc.com/ Editor-in-Chief Auto mail responder: psybc-info@psybc.com Psy Broadcasting Corporation Orders: Phone: 800/250-5350 108 Eagle Rock Way Fax: 201/783-7740 Montclair, NJ 07042 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><>< ><> _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:10:36 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Email length In-Reply-To: <3260BFFE.53BC@cybernet.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bent (& Steve) All I am back from running a Group Experience workshop for Group Workers. It was an intensive experience for two and a half days, and I am pleased with how it went. Perhaps not quite ready to go back into the list for this hobby! But here I am. I enjoyed quickly catching up on the posts, and now "intend" to go back and read them thoroughly. In the case of the long posts from Steve, that may not happen. =20 > Hey Walter I need supervision. Please. > E-Mail supervision about E-Mail list participation. This is not supervision Bent, simply sharing from me. I began life in cyberspace on Compuserve in a "list" that had perhaps 20 times the volume of this list, and simply downloaded the posts from people I enjoyed reading, and threads I enjoyed contributing to. Email allows that, it *possible* here to do that. I am sure you can participate fully here without reading all the posts! Who filters, or deletes or skims what is an unknown to us all. =20 This list is different, there is more cohesion, and I have a sense of all posts contributing to the dynamics, so I don't like to ignore (though I do). I find it easier with shorter posts. More conducive to *dialogue*. However there is plenty of "space" here, I have a sense that the option of selective reading is better than asking people to be selective in their posting! Perhaps for some Steve's posts are suited to their style of interaction. Another point: I have posted some very long posts on occasions! If there are rules about this then they are also made for breaking. =20 Psybernet mailing list can be very broad, though not as broad as newsgroups. Even on the newsgroups sometimes a sense of community can evolve, for the participants. I can catch up with old cyberfriends in alt.psychology.jung. One of the unique developments here is PsyberGroups, with specific members and focus. PWP is one of those a list within a list on this occasion, and I pay particular attention to those. That is also why I like some continuity in the subject headers, it makes it easy to follow threads. At some point once we do our dash with the PWP, another group could start on Group-L. =20 I think Laurel was onto something here about the anarchy of cyberspace, if we want more order, we can make our own to some extent, in the midst of the forest. =20 Bent, I like your response to Steve, and think that the discussion on what works and does not work for people here will be interesting. Steve, how are you doing with this discussion alongside and about your efforts? =20 Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:01:20 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: PWP - answer In-Reply-To: <199610041529.LAA13253@mh101.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Janell, I really like that there is another psychodramatist on the list. There are a few ofd us but we have never had a full discussion on the list. =20 > Holly I think I made a typical mistake, since I'm a new comer to the = list, > and since I knew Walter was the moderator (?)=20 That word does not sit well with me, as in New Zealand I think it is used differently than in north America, it has a "toning down flavour". I use the word facilitator, and that fits for me. I do it mostly through simply *participating* however I think that being the *list owner* (to use the software god given words) has an impact. A significant leadership function is the writing of the list description, that determines the quality of the list more than any other thing. > and that he was a > psychodramatist, I just ASS U ME d that he had said whatever needed to = be > said about psychodrama. The infinite word! > Plus I wasn't sure about speaking up in these lists, that's me and one = of my > problems about being heard. I'd be interested simply in sharing our experiences with the method, and also . . . The big one for this list, and relevant to the PWP, the inter relationship with Psybernet . . . just as psychodrama uses the stage, the audience auxiliaries and the and the director, Psybernet uses a list, a web site, a facilitator, and list members. How do various media enhance the psyche. Psychotherapy in a sense is a medium, at least it is an interesting way to look at it. =20 > I need to go out for awhile now, but I promise I'll write more later > including something about psychodrama, but I need to say it'll be = limited to > how it's practiced here in the U.S. since I've seen very little > international presenters except one from Argentia who now lives in = Australia. I just heard that there was a list of psychodramatists on line, circulated by Adam Blatner, I have just subbed to it, but have not had a reply. I'd be interested to know more. Rob Brodie has put up a site for psychodrama in South Australia . http://www.holistic.com.au/ptisa/index.html Looks good. Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:00:14 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: PWP - answer Hi all... I think an analogy between PWP, the list and psychodrama is completely appropriate. It seems to me that we've been watching one the past couple of weeks. I agree with your selective method in reading emails, Walter... if we are open to synchronicity triggers, whether in PWP, the list, real life or dreams, we'll receive what we're able to handle or choose to respond to. Can I lighten things up a little for awhile ?(for anyone who wants to respond)... (because I have no doubt we will again go into the deeper soul level) I'm doing a class on current masculine psychology, and one of the authors, Pleck, talks about gender role conflict. I got to thinking about what male I would have the most difficulty being around, and Woody Allen came immediately to mind. I think I would constantly feel compelled to explain his reality to him. I'd love to hear from anyone else, either gender. What personnas are the most difficult to deal with? Sheryl :) _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:57:05 EDT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Daniel Hill, Ph.D." Subject: NEW: Online Panels for Mental Health Professionals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought that the subscribers to this list might be interested in this new continuing education service for mental health professionals. If not please excuse the intrusion. For more information: Send any email to psybc-info@psybc.com Visit our website: http://www.psybc.com ====================================================== ONLINE PANELS for Mental Health Professionals Keep up with the literature. PsyBC is a new internet-based service that produces educationally oriented programs for mental health professionals. The first set of programs consist of "standing panels" of experts who will be selecting and discussing what they consider to be the best and most controversial of the current literature in their topic area. The panel discussions will take place via email with each panelist making multiple contributions per week. Subscribers will receive the broadcasts to their email boxes as the panelists' conversations unfold. Subscribers will have the choice to interact with other subscribers or simply receive the comments of the panelists. Subscribers will also have the opportunity to submit questions and comments which may be responded to by panelists. Authors of the journal articles or books being discussed will be invited to join the discussion when possible. Beginning November 1, 1996 * On Cognitive Behavior Therapy: Moderator: Cory Newman Panelists: E. Thomas Dowd, Arthur Freeman, David Haaga, and Patricia A. Resik [Panel is still forming.] ($5/month) * On Depressive Disorders: Moderator: John Rush Panelists: Graham Emslie, Andrew A. Niernberg, Harold A. Sackeim, Michael E. Thase, and Kimberly A. Yonkers ($8/month) * On Group Psychotherapy: Moderator: Anne Alonso Panelists: Bonnie Buchele, Eleanor Councelman, Bill Friedman, Joel Frost, Jerome Gans, John Gladfelter, Cecil Rice, and Hillel Swiller ($8/month) * On Psychoanalysis: Moderator: Glen Gabbard Panelists: Jessica Benjamin, Ron Britton, Peter Fonagy, Joyce McDougall, Arnold Richards, Owen Renik, Henry F. Smith, and Ernest Wolf ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology: Moderator: Alan Schatzberg Panelists: Charles Bowden, Dennis Charney, Stephen Marder, and Charles Nemeroff ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology for Psychotherapists:* Moderator: James Ellison Panelists: Sarah Bradley, Nancy BridgesDiane Grimaldi, David Osser, Michelle Riba, and Stephen R. Saklad, ($8/month) *This panel may have a different format All you need to receive the broadcasts is email. To Subscribe: 800.250.5350 (Please have your credit card ready) Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com *6 months minimum subscription **RISK FREE - Full refund for cancellations within first 30 days <><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Daniel Hill, Ph.D. Administrative Office (Voice): 201.744.6007 President Website: http://www.psybc.com/ Editor-in-Chief Auto mail responder: psybc-info@psybc.com Psy Broadcasting Corporation Orders: 108 Eagle Rock Way Phone: 800/250-5350 Montclair, NJ 07042 Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><> _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:41:30 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: PWP: Psybernet ~ Web Project, stater of play MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Psybernet ~ Web Project, PWP I think we have completed more than enough on the *list* on Steps 1 2 3 and 4. And we have dona a good job if you ask me. ~~~ quote ~~~ 1. Enrolment. People state by posts to Psyber-L that they want to be involved. We move on to the next step when we have 8 people, or within a week or two, as long as we have at least 3. 2. Introduction. Lets hear from each and all. Background, current situation, personal aspirations in this venture. Some responding to each other. Walter will begin to concretise these introductions on to the web. Comments and suggestions about this essential, as we are already making a web production. 3. Themes, topics, links. Each participant posts more specifically what they want to see, achieve, experience, do, in this project. Make links. Name themes. Watch the web as we go . . . make suggestions as to the mirror that evolves there, let it guide our emailing. 4. From complexity to simplicity. Using the web to "see" the group we will define one main task, perhaps more, that satisfies, combines, integrates, the various interests and themes. We name our project. Exactly how this is done is to be discovered. ~~~ end quote ~~~ I think step 4 was done here in the recent messages naming the primary themes. All we can do on the list, but I am way behind on the web side of it. =20 I will work on that *at my leisure* and let you know on the list what I am up to, comments on the write up welcome. I have a sense of making a fairly tight reflection of our work on the web, with lots of links to the original emails! =20 In the mean time I suggest we forget PWP for a while and just go with the flow here -- as we have been doing. =20 Then when ready we will look at the next steps of the project.=20 I look forward to all of this . . . and am also conscious of a time of commitment to my "day job" ~~~ planning the program for next year, and moving into a new phase of f2f group work and psychotherapy training. We experience a Christmas rush here in New Zealand as the summer and the holidays and the family get togethers all come at once. However I will be on the job. My pace, if slow, will be because of these other factors, not my lack of enthusiasm for the work! I have enthusiasm for this work. =20 All the best, Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:20:50 EDT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Daniel Hill, Ph.D." Subject: Re: PWP: Psybernet ~ Web Project, stater of play Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is this list moderated? If so, I wanted to ask if it would be ok for me to post the following announcement. Dan Hill ======================================================= I thought that the subscribers to this list might be interested in this new continuing education service for mental health professionals. If not please excuse the intrusion. For more information: Send any email to psybc-info@psybc.com Visit our website: http://www.psybc.com ====================================================== ONLINE PANELS for Mental Health Professionals Keep up with the literature. PsyBC is a new internet-based service that produces educationally oriented programs for mental health professionals. The first set of programs consist of "standing panels" of experts who will be selecting and discussing what they consider to be the best and most controversial of the current literature in their topic area. The panel discussions will take place via email with each panelist making multiple contributions per week. Subscribers will receive the broadcasts to their email boxes as the panelists' conversations unfold. Subscribers will have the choice to interact with other subscribers or simply receive the comments of the panelists. Subscribers will also have the opportunity to submit questions and comments which may be responded to by panelists. Authors of the journal articles or books being discussed will be invited to join the discussion when possible. Beginning November 1, 1996 * On Cognitive Behavior Therapy: Moderator: Cory Newman Panelists: E. Thomas Dowd, Arthur Freeman, David Haaga, and Patricia A. Resik [Panel is still forming.] ($5/month) * On Depressive Disorders: Moderator: John Rush Panelists: Graham Emslie, Andrew A. Niernberg, Harold A. Sackeim, Michael E. Thase, and Kimberly A. Yonkers ($8/month) * On Group Psychotherapy: Moderator: Anne Alonso Panelists: Bonnie Buchele, Eleanor Councelman, Bill Friedman, Joel Frost, Jerome Gans, John Gladfelter, Cecil Rice, and Hillel Swiller ($8/month) * On Psychoanalysis: Moderator: Glen Gabbard Panelists: Jessica Benjamin, Ron Britton, Peter Fonagy, Joyce McDougall, Arnold Richards, Owen Renik, Henry F. Smith, and Ernest Wolf ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology: Moderator: Alan Schatzberg Panelists: Charles Bowden, Dennis Charney, Stephen Marder, and Charles Nemeroff ($8/month) * On Psychopharmacology for Psychotherapists:* Moderator: James Ellison Panelists: Sarah Bradley, Nancy BridgesDiane Grimaldi, David Osser, Michelle Riba, and Stephen R. Saklad, ($8/month) *This panel may have a different format All you need to receive the broadcasts is email. To Subscribe: 800.250.5350 (Please have your credit card ready) Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com *6 months minimum subscription **RISK FREE - Full refund for cancellations within first 30 days <><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Daniel Hill, Ph.D. Administrative Office (Voice): 201.744.6007 President Website: http://www.psybc.com/ Editor-in-Chief Auto mail responder: psybc-info@psybc.com Psy Broadcasting Corporation Orders: 108 Eagle Rock Way Phone: 800/250-5350 Montclair, NJ 07042 Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><> _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:20:04 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: The Eagle has landed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Kylie the Eagle, > At the invitation of a friend, I have been lurking here for the past > couple of weeks. Having enjoyed all of your posts greatly, I guess it is= > not time for me to introduce myself before I find that I can not resist > and just jump in and reply to someone's post that touches me deeply. I=92m glad that you decided to join into the conversation. Your poem, _Tears_ meant much to me as I am quite a sentimental kind of person (though at times I wish I wasn=92t quite so emotional). Your choice of name, EAGLE, is interesting as that is my user id name (aigle) ... one poet to another connected by name. I am a teacher during the work hours in a high school, a misfit during the rest of the day that has a hard time deciding which of the various realities to inhabit at any given moment. I hope one day to give the world at least one poem or story that would make my consumption of life energy of some use to humankind. It=92s a tough go sometimes being referee between the calling of the soul and the living of a pratical life. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:21:41 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Bent ... out of shape. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bent, Since my server is down this weekend (writing this on October 13), I have had time to re-read some of the Psyber-l postings that I had little time for reading before. First, I don't think that I properly welcomed you to the group. I am very pleased to meet you here and I look forward to a continued conversation with you within the group. > As I'm sitting here and reading the mail from August I'm aware of > the feelings that I get reading, and I must say that the atmosphere > is of a very warm and intense kind of feeling. I had never thought > that a mailing list could produce anything that was similar to be > in a "live group" I agree, that is a strange experience. This is one of the things that most pleases me about using this kind of media. It is a powerful media that promises much if we learn how to use it to its full potential in the field of counselling and group therapy. > Its obvious to me that even the "silence" between the mail is of a > very importen kind of silence or is it holes or psyberholes as > there is not a sound.anywhere, perhaps is this a similar experience > a blind or deaf would experience from being in a group You can > communicate but not hear or see or feel or smell but still you > experience feelings of being in a group, strange !!! Yes, very strange. The emotional investiment in these conversations is quite intense and is quite like the analogy you give above. I like your imagery of *psyberholes*. With the lack of other sensual input, our hightened ability to *hear* the silence which is pregnant with meanings seems to take us deeper than we would ordinarily go in communion via text. > And can anybody give me as a newcomer advise how to go on and what > is important when you reflect is there any special rules that is > good to know so I don't have to use trial and error methods??? I don't know of any rules that should be in place or ARE in existence here. Hopefully, the only one that we need to perhaps use is one that could serve us well at all times, that is, to do good. One of my first posts (a poem) to this group was about silence. I will repeat the poem for you and the others who have joined since that time. I look forward to your posts and have enjoyed visiting your home page on the web. Robert de Cyberie Silence is a Time for Whispering ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A faint stirring in shimmering green garments sheltering in shade and silence the memory of a whisper a symbolic dance A ghost in soft shadows singing in pulses of the heart with practiced and patient questions sensed in the dusk and dawning Touch denied and abandoned feeling limited to the caress of a whisper sent in the time of silence Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:36:51 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: PWP: layout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PWP=20 Hi all, I have spent the evening fiddling with the layout of the PWP on the web. http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/project.htm Have a look at it, and let me know all the bugs you find. It is best if = I fix things as I start off, otherwise the bugs just get copied and pasted! Ideas for the content / lay out too please. Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:48:47 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: NEW: Online Panels for Mental Health Professionals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, > Is this list moderated? If so, I wanted to ask if it would be ok for = me to > post the following announcement. I am in that role, and yes it is OK to post this sort of material. We = have had it three times . . . which is not so good! I would also be interested in hearing from people in the Psybernet = Mailing List if they have explored these seminars and how they find them. I am interested in the infonomics of them and the dynamics of a panel = plus an audience? =20 All interesting stuff to learn about. So Dan, if you are reading the list, perhaps some comments on these = aspects of your project to the list would help us get some insight into your = work. Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:13:31 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Laurel/Delores doesn't talk to me anymore! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" sniff :-( _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Synchronicity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, It seems that I'm continually being touched with the brush of synchronicity. There almost appears to be a pattern to these occurrences. One of the resulting messages that begins to appear to me is: << Pay attention, Robert! Why do you think that we have set << these particular people at these places along your life << path? Why are so many of them appearing with such similar << themes? Are they temptations to lead you astray or are << they reminders that you have a calling? The final questions particularily give me a difficult time. If I trust then I am being led to a living of a different life (a life that is quite attractive, exciting, and possibly fulfilling). If I reject the temptation I am left hollow and aching. The choice seems so easy. Then, I see the ripples of these choices, then it isn't so easy anymore. \\ ~~~ // ^^^^^ shadow voices echo connections visions in triplicate replicate the query hint at the quest open the portal to ... a universe ... an inner world ... a communion Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:56:10 EDT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Daniel Hill, Ph.D." Subject: Re: NEW: Online Panels for Mental Health Professionals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Walter, First sorry for the multiple postings. I never received any of them although I am subscribed to the list. > >I would also be interested in hearing from people in the Psybernet Mailing >List if they have explored these seminars and how they find them. The panels haven't begun yet. They are due to begin in Nov. > >I am interested in the infonomics of them and the dynamics of a panel plus >an audience? > >All interesting stuff to learn about. > >So Dan, if you are reading the list, perhaps some comments on these aspects >of your project to the list would help us get some insight into your work. I see the PsyBC panels as complementary to the normal dymamics and aims of listservs. The intent of the PsyBC panels is narrow compared with the normal listserv and they are more tightly structured. They emulate ftf panels to an extent (the panelist talk and respond to selected questions from the audience.) and in that regard they are merely a means for those outside of the large information centers to gain access to the leaders in the field. However, they have an interesting parallel component which is a listserv in which the subscribers can speak with one another. This will provide more feedback for the panel and also provide a means for alternative voices to be heard. From an educational point of view the PsyBC panels will hopefully provide a guide to subscribers for their reading of the current literature and provide access to a rather unique communication among what are arguably some of the best minds in the field. Also, in the near future we hope to be able to provide continuing education credits for US practitioners and also "course packs" (bound copies of the readings) for anyone who does not have easy access to them. I'd be very interested to hear your and others thoughts about it. I'm learning as we go. I am swamped with all the work in setting up PsyBC but will try to stick around this list for a couple of days. Dan <><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Daniel Hill, Ph.D. Administrative Office (Voice): 201.744.6007 President Website: http://www.psybc.com/ Editor-in-Chief Auto mail responder: psybc-info@psybc.com Psy Broadcasting Corporation Orders: 108 Eagle Rock Way Phone: 800/250-5350 Montclair, NJ 07042 Fax: 201/783-7740 Email: psybc-subscriptions@psybc.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><> _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:01:06 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Re: Synchronicity In-Reply-To: <3264ED48.668F@sk.sympatico.ca> from "Sieur de Cyberie" at Oct 16, 96 07:12:24 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My dear Sieur de Cyberie, you are not alone in your thoughts on synchronicity... thank you for the following: > > It seems that I'm continually being touched with the brush of > synchronicity. There almost appears to be a pattern to these > occurrences. One of the resulting messages that begins to appear to > me is: > > << Pay attention, Robert! Why do you think that we have set > << these particular people at these places along your life > << path? Why are so many of them appearing with such similar > << themes? Are they temptations to lead you astray or are > << they reminders that you have a calling? Only you can answer that methinks; and for each of us, only we ourselves really know whether we are fooling ourselves to satisfy temptation or whether we are being reminded of our calling; I believe that where true love is, we find the calling; where it is not, we find temptation; the trick is knowing the difference - and only we can know that in our hearts IMO. > > The final questions particularily give me a difficult time. If > I trust then I am being led to a living of a different life (a life that > is quite attractive, exciting, and possibly fulfilling). If I reject > the temptation I am left hollow and aching. The choice seems so easy. > Then, I see the ripples of these choices, then it isn't so easy anymore. Yes... I know that difficulty well now. Standing on the cliff edge, arms outstretched... and trusting that we will either find solid ground beneath our feet or we will be taught to fly. The coaching and love of others does not make that spreading of the wings easier...but it does make it doable. "The Spiritual Way is tough... and no-one makes it easy. " - Wang Yee Lee Neat people like Kylie can make it doable, fun and love-filled though... Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:25:13 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: The Sound of Silence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, your poem 'the time of silence' I enjoyed much; it got me thinking about silence; and what is good about it, and what not so good... there are many good things in silence; I am very fond of my space and my time alone with myself- I was humming 'The Sound of Silence' by Simon and Garfunkel when I read your poem... and thinking about it I realised that it has both a negative and a postive side to it; I think that silence from a perspective of true love is wonderful... is bliss, contentment, nirvana; and that silence from a perspective of fear, forced silence, is the opposite; In essence that silence is stability. And what we have before that stability is the energy that the silence takes on; I'll quote the excerpt which sparked this post: ... Silence like a cancer grows And the sign flashed it's warning In the words that it was forming And the sign said The Words of the Prophets are written on a subway wall Tenement Halls And in the Sound Of Silence. The line which struck me was about the words of the prophets being written on subway walls... people not speaking their true feelings except in graffiti. The meaning I took from this myself [although I know there are many interpretations of S&G's famous songs] is to do with the internet; I believe that in the past 'the words of the prophets' may well have been written on subway walls and tenement halls...because people couldnt voice their true opinions in the newspapers and TV and social gatherings, because it wasnt 'acceptable' to be completely open; silence back in the 50s and before was a necessary and desirable thing to keep one's position, one's friends and the good opinion of one's peers. In short, that in the past keeping silent and not jeopardising oneself and one's loved ones was the positive thing to do. Now with the internet I think that 'the words of the prophets' are plastered all over the information superhighway... that now people have the opportunity to speak up and out and let their true feelings flow across the datastream.. that the energy which silence carries has changed. That it is now not a desirable and necessary thing to do... that it is by speaking up and out and breaking the silence that we act from love now. That now, it is breaking the silence that is the positive thing to do. That there is a transformation underway which will break the silence, in a postive, uplifting and loving way. Why is that? Rather than pontificate this time I'm just going to say 'Celestine Prophecy'; and hit send. Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:38:49 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Murray on Mailbombs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll be brief this time. honest. Bent & Walter, thanks for the posts about e-mail length... I found Bent's so funny I couldnt get mad at him no matter how I tried & in looking at my own posts through fun-tinted glasses I realised that yeah, I could maybe make em a bit shorter. I got a great deal of insights about myself from reading that poem of Bent's... which I wouldnt have gotten if I'd taken the hump and gone on the defensive. Thanks Bent... your poem zonked me right between the eyes and allowed me to look at myself in a way I never really have before... and gain much from it. Walter, thank you for your comments on E-mail length, you are tactful, diplomatic and thoughtful as always, turning a potentially embarassing situation for me into a source of insights and positive thought; I have gained much from reflecting on my own strategies and ways of posting things thanks to your intelligent comments, which were so clearly as always in good humor and good faith. I have had much good catalysis from thinking about this, and may share some of it when it is more threaded together. Walter, I'm happy for a thread on mail length & stuff to coexist with my posts... I have a lot to contribute in fact. I learned my way of structuring articles from the advertiser David Pascal whose incredible articles stunned people [including me] in the NLP newsgroup. Pascal's insights were the most fascinating things I had read on the net up until Celestine happend to me, and I still havent managed to reply to them... too much insight too closely packed together overwhelms the mind and instead of 'getting' lots of it, we dont get any of it; The long-length style which Pascal uses and which I've been using myself up till now works extremely well in flamewars to get your point across without having to spend time cleaning up misunderstandings and missings of the point; Being a flamewar veteran I have tended to stick with that style even when it was no longer necessary; it has actually cut me off from a lot of catalysis and feedback which I could have had if I'd cut the length down. And realised that there is no need for me to 'fight' anymore and hide behind my war and peace length articles. There is no flamewar here... I am done fighting and demonising people. Doesnt work... just hurts me and kills little parts of me. Only love heals gulfs and blocks; something I have learned the hard way. Not promising I wont ever write long articles again, just that I will take the feedback positively and see how I can improve my sharing... Thanks folks, for a message well received. Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:01:44 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: Re: PWP - answer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ran across this website in a recent search .. thought it was interesting, and possibly relevant to this group..... Web address: http://catalog.com/vivian/lifecycle.html Content: The Natural Life Cycle Of Mailing Lists Kat Nagel (KatNagel@eznet.net) sent this terrific piece to the EARLY-M mailing list in December 1994. It is the best description of the social development of a mailing list I've read. Every list seems to go through the same cycle: 1.Initial enthusiasm 2.Evangelism 3.Growth 4.Community 5.Discomfort with diversity 6.Finally: 1.Smug complacency and stagnation OR 2.Maturity I have edited out Nagel's descriptions of each category. If you are interested, they are very interesting, especially in relation to PWP/Psyber-L. Hope this fits the list topics.... _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:51:44 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: NEW: Online Panels for Mental Health Professionals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, > First sorry for the multiple postings. I never received any of them > although I am subscribed to the list. This is the way to fix that: Send a=20 set psyber-L repro=20 command to=20 LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM > The panels haven't begun yet. They are due to begin in Nov. I thought you may have had earlier ones . . . > I see the PsyBC panels as complementary to the normal dymamics and aims= of > listservs. The intent of the PsyBC panels is narrow compared with the > normal listserv and they are more tightly structured. They emulate = ftf > panels to an extent (the panelist talk and respond to selected = questions > from the audience.) and in that regard they are merely a means for = those > outside of the large information centers to gain access to the leaders = in > the field. However, they have an interesting parallel component which = is a > listserv in which the subscribers can speak with one another. This = will > provide more feedback for the panel and also provide a means for > alternative voices to be heard. >=20 > >From an educational point of view the PsyBC panels will hopefully = provide a > guide to subscribers for their reading of the current literature and > provide access to a rather unique communication among what are arguably > some of the best minds in the field. Also, in the near future we hope = to > be able to provide continuing education credits for US practitioners = and > also "course packs" (bound copies of the readings) for anyone who does = not > have easy access to them. >=20 > I'd be very interested to hear your and others thoughts about it. = I'm > learning as we go. I am swamped with all the work in setting up PsyBC = but > will try to stick around this list for a couple of days. Thanks for the fuller description. A very interesting concept, and all = the best with it. I will have a closer look! =20 Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:01:45 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Test ... I'm losing mail. -- = = Robert George Lucien Longpr=E9 /\ =C9cole secondaire =ABLanigan Central=BB //\\ D=E9p. de Langues Modernes // \\ Lanigan, Saskatchewan \\ // S0K 2M0 //\\\///\\ _/ /\ \_ - mon pays, ce n'est pas un pays - \/ *** Gilles Vigneault *** _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:17:47 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Silence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir /etc/aliases, aka Steve Murray, Many thanks for your words of acknowledgement and for your expressed appreciation for the poem. When I set off into a trail of musing, I often pose questions to myself that do not require answers, questions that push me to revel in the chase, the search, the quest. When I throw questions out into this cherished cyberspace knowing that there are those who are listening, I wait in anticipation of the dialogue that serves as communion between us. I dread receiving an answer that would signal the end of the dialogue. The words we use in dialogue are more often than not carriers of a deeper dialogue. For example, when I teach others about the vocabulary of greeting in another language, I stress that the words themselves, their arrangements, do not carry meaning as we know it (words have intentional meaning). Rather, the words of greeting signal meaning beyond the actual words themselves, they signal relationship between the parties. The words themselves disappear and we hear instead an affirmation of our acceptance as unique beings, as subjects. Such is the power of greeting using basically meaningless vocabulary (Hey!, How's it goin', Morning, etc.) even body language without words accomplishes the same task. An example? nodding one's head to the driver of an approaching vehicle; catching someone's eye in a crowd. Each of these accomplish the same task of communion, a meeting of I and Thou. Even without words, without a sound, the silence is broken. Now take PSYBER-L, if you listen carefully, you can hear people listening. More than one nod in agreement with a thought offered by another on the lsit; another frowns as umbrage is taken; a handful of others exchange thoughts of utter confusion; two more gasp at the wonder of the words which seem to mirror their own present thoughts; another dismisses the thought as pure balderdash. Where is the silence? Silence exists when there is no dialogue, no communion. What if no one ever gave voice to the speaker of the thought? The doubts begin to assail the speaker. 'Has anyone heard?'; 'Is anyone listening?'. Then, the speaker hears a chorus of others speaking and listening as they dance around the expressed thought without ever acknowledging that those words had even been spoken. That is silence ... and painful. The power of the 'net to hold our voices over an extended period of time allowing another to finally hear and respond breaks down those walls of silence that plague much of the world in face-to-face life. Unlike a television or radio or CD player which fills the empty spaces with sound, the sceen in front of you here on the 'net blinks at you, inviting you to interact. Then there comes a miracle, a voice across time and space replies back ... the silence is broken. Are these words of prophets written in graffiti on the crescents of cyberwaves? Or, are these words from one to another one? Steve, you bring me fond memories when you mention the Simon and Garfunkel song, memories of a time when I clutched my guitar on a stage and sang in an attempt to see if anyone could hear me, if anyone was listening. Your words have brised the silence. Merci. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Synchronicity Hi all :) It's the middle of the night here, 2:30, and I can't go back to sleep after a writing down a dream that was important to me, and my mind is racing (and here I thought I'd put it on hold for at least a day!) The other day Robert said: << shadow voices echo connections visions in triplicate replicate the query hint at the quest open the portal to ... a universe ... an inner world ... a communion >> Robert, you are so right in the connections... the LINKS!... linking the synchronicity of experiences, people (rl, cyber and psyber) and dreams, other's anecdotes, what I read or study, my physical state... everything... to my personal past and present and future... it has become central in leading me on a path to a unification and profound understanding of the query and quest. And I had just been reading one of Walter's posts about links on the web site today! Now maybe this hyper active brain can stop it's rambling... hope I'm not saying something that everyone else in the world already knows, and get some rest. Night everyone :) Sheryl :) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:35:56 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: (fwd) NEW: DreamWave - Global Hypermedia Trends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I am forwarding this to the Psybernet list as i think list has some excellent posts on the technology and its impact (though the list owner = is attempting to keep the focus on cutting edge tech). =20 ~~~ On Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:48:10 -0500, Wayne McGuire wrote: DreamWave on majordomo@cybercom.net Global Hypermedia Trends DreamWave (formerly Boston Online) is a mailing list dedicated to discussion, speculation and information sharing about the hottest new products, technologies and trends on the Internet and World Wide Web. Its primary focus is on search engines, personal news services, hypermedia mail, global hypermedia groupware, and privacy and intelligence issues. Subscribers share pointers to and comparative evaluations of leading edge online software, services, sites, tools, techniques and concepts. Exploration of the social implications of new online technology is welcome. Some recent DreamWave topics include: Alta Vista Private eXtension Amazon.com's automated search agent Brainwave competitive intelligence Excite Live!/NewsTracker the future of markup languages the future of newspapers global hypermedia groupware global intelligence systems hypermedia mail Lexis-Nexis P-Trak Person Locator meta search engines My Yahoo! NetObjects Fusion Netscape Inbox Direct news delivery mechanisms personal news services personal privacy PointCast Reuters Web The home page for DreamWave is http://www.cybercom.net/~wmcguire/dreamwave.html The archive for DreamWave is located at http://www.cybercom.net/~wmcguire/dreamwave Subscribe by sending a message to majordomo@cybercom.net with the following in the body: subscribe dreamwave Unsubscribe by sending a message to majordomo@cybercom.net with the following in the body: unsubscribe dreamwave Owner: Wayne McGuire wmcguire@cybercom.net ------- Use this information at your own risk. For more information and = disclaimer send E-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU with the command INFO = NEW-LIST in the body. _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 03:44:35 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: PWP: Synchronicity [was Re: Synchronicity] In-Reply-To: <961018044416_129248596@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (the full post this time, pushed the send button in error a moment ago!) Sheryl and all in the PWP, and beyond > my mind is racing=20 I have been at work on the PWP files. I have not done much, but am beginning to see the interconnections in our education, synchronicity and anarchy discussions. Is it that within anarchy the more profound order created synchronistically (by grace, by god, by chaos theory HooN's exposition) is possible. =20 In the small file one can find in the PWP on the web called Synchronicity I have added an that find all instances of the word in out project. =20 I think there is value in this raking over of the archives, and = webbifying the thing very tightly and elegantly. =20 Let us just focus on that one formed text: =20 http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/pwsynch.htm What else should go in it? Is there one quote from one of our posts? What links? One to Anarchy? How can the relationship be explicated, briefly elegantly? =20 A link to Robert's poem? =20 > << shadow voices echo connections > visions in triplicate > replicate the query > hint at the quest > open the portal to > ... a universe > ... an inner world > ... a communion >> > Robert, you are so right in the connections... the LINKS!... linking = the > synchronicity of experiences, people (rl, cyber and psyber) and dreams, > other's anecdotes, what I read or study, my physical state... = everything... > to my personal past and present and future... it has become central in > leading me on a path to a unification and profound understanding of the= query > and quest. Yes. This in my opinion is bringing one important PWP theme into light, clarity. =20 ~~~ > And I had just been reading one of Walter's posts about links on the = web site > today! I don't know which one you were reading , but my mind is racing as I = think about links. Especially as the web is making its next paradigm shift through technology that sends customised information to you. It is as if we are now able to technologically create synchronicity . . . (asynchronously paradoxically . . . we meet outside of time) . . . The value of skipping and dipping even into this list, thus producing the synchronicity we value, can be enhanced using software . . . try the archive search function . . . read posts by a selected person which = contain a selected word! =20 walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 03:41:26 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: PWP: Synchronicity [was Synchronicity] In-Reply-To: <961018044416_129248596@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sheryl=20 > my mind is racing=20 I have been at work on the PWP files. =20 > << shadow voices echo connections > visions in triplicate > replicate the query > hint at the quest > open the portal to > ... a universe > ... an inner world > ... a communion >> >=20 > Robert, you are so right in the connections... the LINKS!... linking = the > synchronicity of experiences, people (rl, cyber and psyber) and dreams, > other's anecdotes, what I read or study, my physical state... = everything... > to my personal past and present and future... it has become central in > leading me on a path to a unification and profound understanding of the= query > and quest. >=20 > And I had just been reading one of Walter's posts about links on the = web site > today! >=20 > Now maybe this hyper active brain can stop it's rambling... hope I'm = not > saying something that everyone else in the world already knows, and get= some > rest. Night everyone :) >=20 > Sheryl :) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >=20 > _______________________________________________________________ > For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to > LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L >=20 >=20 _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 06:31:59 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Who Am I? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who Am I? Even if we sense that there is a core of essential self hood deep down, how it is expressed, the way we are, is shaped by the media. We know that. But a shift is coming . . . Multimedia email will comes to us in the browser, and what arrives is customised to who we are. We through our interactions *shape the medium.* =46or an example of check out my personalised Excite page. NewsTracker is customised with material arriving just for me . . . (and some for Kate!) Very personal . . . please respect, I have no password on it, but may need to do that soon. http://live.excite.com/?uid=3DC09944A932622469 Through collaborative filtering (see firefly) what comes in will be more finely attuned to who I am. My "profile" will be shaped by my preferences, an avatar of mysterious complexity, understood only by what arrives in my In box, from unknown sources. My avatar knows me like no other and *shapes the way I am!* =20 Walter=20 _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:08:02 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Mike Rael Subject: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories In-Reply-To: <3270c40c.681242240@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Utterly and joyously fantastic, Walter. Dr. Dan Rogers, one of the practicing psychologists on my list, has theorized about how we gain our identity from looking at those we respect. I tend to disagree with him in the main, believing that, while his theory is true to some extent, fundamentally we gain our sense of identity by the conclusions we make about ourselves *independently* of those of others. It's when I talk about myself and *no one* is listening, that's when the self-talk goes to the far reaches of my soul. Your idea of the computer avatar is most interesting, because it seems to borrow from both object relations thoery a la Rogers and from self-esteem psychology, a la Branden. On the one hand it is the external object that changes our self-image. On the other, it is *we* who have shaped that external object. I can foresee a time when people will use alta vista to explore who they are, and their reactions to themselves in this medium, the same way they explore who they are when looking in a full-length mirror! best always, Mike Mike Rael lakid@netcom.com listowner, self-esteem-self-help On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Walter Logeman wrote: > Who Am I? > > Even if we sense that there is a core of essential self hood deep > down, how it is expressed, the way we are, is shaped by the > media. We know that. But a shift is coming . . . > > Multimedia email will comes to us in the browser, and what > arrives is customised to who we are. We through our interactions > *shape the medium.* > > For an example of check out my personalised Excite page. > NewsTracker is customised with material arriving just for me . . > . (and some for Kate!) Very personal . . . please respect, I have > no password on it, but may need to do that soon. > > http://live.excite.com/?uid=C09944A932622469 > > Through collaborative filtering (see firefly) what comes in will > be more finely attuned to who I am. My "profile" will be shaped > by my preferences, an avatar of mysterious complexity, understood > only by what arrives in my In box, from unknown sources. My > avatar knows me like no other and *shapes the way I am!* > > > > Walter > > _____________________________________________________ > Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz > http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html > > _______________________________________________________________ > For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to > LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:43:47 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike > Utterly and joyously fantastic, Walter. Thanks! > I can foresee a time when people will use alta vista to explore > who they are, and their reactions to themselves in this medium, the = same > way they explore who they are when looking in a full-length mirror! With advancing sound and graphics we will will be able to chat with ourselves to get to know ourselves. Walter =20 _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 12:20:57 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Re: Who Am I? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter, > Who Am I? What a question! Who are you asking? Who is answering? This mystery of self is precisely that - a mystery. We ask this question of ourselves and then try to pick through the clutter within and come up with a composite image. We ask the question of others and listen to their words attempting to pick out yet more pieces to the puzzle from those comments which seem to have the _ring of truth_. We ask the question of our actions and search the paths taken and those denied hoping to find a few more pieces. We ask the question through our relation to another and learn of a few more pieces. We listen to our dreams, to the voice of calling, we meditate, we seek counselling, we pray for enlightenment. Then, we arrive again at the question whose answer remains a mystery. > Even if we sense that there is a core of essential self hood deep > down, how it is expressed, the way we are, is shaped by the > media. We know that. Do we? Is it possible that the media we engage in is shaped by ourselves? Is it possible that the media we design is designed to express some of what we are? What do we truly know? > Multimedia email will comes to us in the browser, and what > arrives is customised to who we are. We through our interactions > *shape the medium.* I agree with you. For example, as one _surfs the 'net_, there is a trail which speaks of who we perceive ourselves to be. Is it pure chance that tells us to _click_ to discover a new site? In a way, you pose an answer to what I ask above, we are indeed the shapers, the designers of the media more so than being shaped by that media. > For an example of check out my personalised Excite page. > http://live.excite.com/?uid=C09944A932622469 I will this after sending this to the group. I anticipate that I will then have more to say after that voyage. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:32:39 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:08 AM 10/20/96 -0700, you wrote: > I can foresee a time when people will use alta vista to explore >who they are, and their reactions to themselves in this medium, the same >way they explore who they are when looking in a full-length mirror! Go to AltaVista.. Do a search for your name.. and read what comes up. The newsgroup threaders and the list archives provide quite a bit of food for thought. Not to mention the family geneology and other bits.. Personally, I believe that I am what I believe. Wilbur _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:31:00 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories In-Reply-To: <199610210332.XAA21250@shell.monmouth.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To all--great discussion on nature of self! My advanced theory class is studying symbolic interactionism (a la Mead and Blumer) as well as K. Burke's dramatism and Walter Fisher's narrative theory this week as approaches to defining self. The brief discussion here allows me to show them that these theories are really discussed by real people who are vested in these ideas. Synchronicity in action. My theory class is also giving me a new adventure in psyber/cyberspace as about half of the class elected to do the first major project via on-line discussions (something none of them had done before). Getting our computer folk to get the discussion list set up was an event in itself; they tell me by next term we may be able to have it web based so it doesn't flood everyone;s e-mail. Gosh, Walter--my admiration to you as a facilitator. Without your model, I wouldn't have been able to get this project up and running--and likely wouldn't have been so open to letting each group find its own way. I was astonished at the depth of discussion the students produced--much stronger than I've seen in individual papers and I'm much more confident that they "got" it! Wilbur & Walter--for us web neophytes, what is Alta Vista and how does one get there? Until later--it's off to bed for me. Susan On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Wilbur Streett wrote: > At 12:08 AM 10/20/96 -0700, you wrote: > > I can foresee a time when people will use alta vista to explore > >who they are, and their reactions to themselves in this medium, the same > >way they explore who they are when looking in a full-length mirror! > > Go to AltaVista.. > > Do a search for your name.. and read what comes up. > > The newsgroup threaders and the list archives provide quite a bit of food > for thought. Not to mention the family geneology and other bits.. > > Personally, I believe that I am what I believe. > > Wilbur > > _______________________________________________________________ > For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to > LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:17:57 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan, > The brief discussion here allows me to show > them that these theories are really discussed by real people who are > vested in these ideas. Synchronicity in action. I am delighted that this discussion and your experience here has made such an impact! =20 ~~~ Email technology. > Getting our computer folk to get the discussion list set up was an = event > in itself; they tell me by next term we may be able to have it web = based > so it doesn't flood everyone;s e-mail. =20 The flooding email problem applies to people who use an email reader that does not have "filtering" of the email into separate folders. We are still in the dark ages of email that this is the case. It is essential to automatically file email to tap the email list resources, and little email items like "A Word a Day", "Tips for Windows" etc. =20 I still find discussion on the web cumbersome, however others may have better experience, I'd be interested to hear. Sites using Motet software, such as the Utne Reader site are the best I have seen. =20 ~~~ Net learning. > I was astonished at the depth of > discussion the students produced--much stronger than I've seen in > individual papers and I'm much more confident that they "got" it! I am not surprised. All the richness of discussion, interaction & cooperation, combined with the clarity and focus that comes through writing in solitude. =20 ~~~ Search engines. > Wilbur & Walter--for us web neophytes, what is Alta Vista and how does = one > get there? I was going to say go to Alta Vista and search for it! However that can't be done. Here is the url: http://www.altavista.digital.com It enables you to search for any topic on the whole of the web, or in newsgroups. It is a wonder of the world really. I recall my first glimpos of it. Looking at the web for the first time, I knew the lastname of someone who had a web page. In 30 seconds I was looking at his photo on the web! =20 I have done the thing that Wilbur suggested, searching under my name, and I "see" my 3 year history on the net. A mirror indeed. Also the end of privacy. Quite something for me that whole privacy issue. We grapple in psychotherapy supervision about what is "appropriate" self disclosure, and one can go to Alta Vista, and look up ones therapist, and see so much. (or not see, depending on if they have crossed that line). =20 There are other search engines . . . currently I am enjoying Excite, which can be automated to seek out me customised news. See recent "Who am I post". (I have now added a password to my personal page.) I would recommend a look at=20 http://live.excite.com Walter=20 _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:30:37 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Who Am I? In-Reply-To: <326A7B99.2314@sk.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, > > Who Am I? >=20 > What a question! Who are you asking? Who is answering? This mystery = of > self is precisely that - a mystery.=20 . . . > Then, we arrive again at the question whose answer remains a mystery. Of course, and we, to be on this list at all, are with this mystery, we nestle up to it . . .=20 > > Even if we sense that there is a core of essential self hood deep > > down, how it is expressed, the way we are, is shaped by the > > media. We know that. >=20 > Do we? =20 I was thinking of the insights that have become almost clich=E9, that the media deeply affects our society, culture our collective psyche, unconscious. McLuhan (using ideas from Innes?) gives us the importance of paper in the development of the Roman Empire . . . orders could be delivered by runner (not so easy using stone tablets). The role of the printing press . . . leading to redundancy in the monasteries, and many more subtle changes such as the very notion of a conveyor belt, echoing the presses themselves and also the alphabet with its linearity. =20 > Is it possible that the media we engage in is shaped by > ourselves? =20 The very point I am making. *This* medium is qualitatively different in that regard to say television. (I was going to say families . . . I tend to use the word media very broadly!) I have hear the TV remote control called the "god box" . . . it has noting on what we are doing here . . . and where we are going=20 > I agree with you. For example, as one _surfs the 'net_, there = is > a trail which speaks of who we perceive ourselves to be. Is it pure > chance that tells us to _click_ to discover a new site? In a way, you > pose an answer to what I ask above, we are indeed the shapers, the > designers of the media more so than being shaped by that media. Yes, more conscious of our evolution perhaps. =20 A post from a while back relates to all this, here is the archive URL: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/wa.exe?A2=3Dind9608&L=3Dpsyber-l&D=3D0&H=3D0&T= =3D1&O=3DT&F=3D&P=3D223 Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:00:30 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Who am I? [was: Re: Computer avatar as a union . . .] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan, > To all--great discussion on nature of self!=20 I have just read a review by Claire Douglas of Hillman's new book, in the Washington Post, has this sort of stuff come up in your class? http://washingtonpost.com:80/wp-srv/WPlate/1996-10/20/054L-102096-idx.htm= l I liked the review, which clarifies some of the right wing political attitudes in Hillman . . . there is a politics of the psyche at work here! Hillman's view of the soul, or who we are, each an individual acorn immune from the environment provided we follow the code within. Radically different is the slime and mould interconnectedness of the soul ( a view advocated by Claire Douglas) which fits more with the soul that reflected in our discussion in the "we are our links" view. J L Moreno, (psychodrama, sociometry), proposed just such a view of who we are . . . microcosms of our social atom . . . ie the links we have into our environment.=20 I guess stumbling across this article was more synchronicity! Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:52:39 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Wilbur Streett Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:31 AM 10/21/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Wilbur & Walter--for us web neophytes, what is Alta Vista and how does one >get there? Susan, You can get to AltaVista at (don't forget to search the newsgroups) http://altavista.digital.com/ It's a Web Search Engine that has a LOT of collected information. I'd also recommend Lycos at http://www.lycos.com/ and DejaNews which is a newsgroup search engine at.. http://www.dejanews.com (It helps if you have posted to the USENET based newsgroups.) Last time I searched Lycos I found out that I have a relative in the White House! Wilbur _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:19:25 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: MS JANELL F ADAIR Subject: Re: Who am I? [was: Re: Computer avatar as a union . . .] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: Janell F. Adair * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] -- Walter and all: I agree with Moreno in this presentation of his, that's shown below, however, as I've grown and changed I've come to realize that this microcosm representation that we are is not something that is stagnant, but something that's constantly changing as we are changing. I guess the question becomes who or which changes whom? It's not a question that I've an answer for, at least not yet. I've read Hillman's first book but have not yet read his new one, perhaps I'll read the Washington Post's review on-line but I know I'll still decide in the end to read the book or not on my own. Janell (Not as silent as I've been) > > J L Moreno, (psychodrama, sociometry), proposed just such a view of who we are > . . . microcosms of our social atom . . . ie the links we have into our > environment. > > I guess stumbling across this article was more synchronicity! > > > Walter > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz > http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html > > _______________________________________________________________ > For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to > LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:54:12 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: The Eagle has landed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sieur de Cyberie wrote: > I am a teacher during the work hours in a high school, a > misfit during the rest of the day that has a hard time deciding > which of the various realities to inhabit at any given moment. I > hope one day to give the world at least one poem or story that > would make my consumption of life energy of some use to > humankind. It=92s a tough go sometimes being referee between > the calling of the soul and the living of a pratical life. > Please Robert I would like to know if I have understood this. do you mean that You would like to write a poem that makes you famos all = over the world and you have your daily life that uses ore give you energy = so you cannot write the poem that you want ore ???? -- = Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:47:53 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Bent ... out of shape. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Sieur de Cyberie and ????????? Thank You for a very Warm welcome > I agree, that is a strange experience. This is one of the > things that most pleases me about using this kind of media. It is > a powerful media that promises much if we learn how to use it to > its full potential in the field of counselling and group therapy. I wrote about *cyberholes* the silence and I just did a cut on a fault and the hole answer went away so this Ill try once again.Damm it. Sitting here in front of the hardware.The *psyberholes of silence.Silence the blackjack in every group make evrybody thinking what this silence is all about is the hardware, the net the group me.Why is it that I feel that I shall answer people proberly I could care less and just quit.but I dont sittng in front of the hardware and try to but some > I like your imagery of *psyberholes*. With the >lack of other sensual input, our hightened ability to *hear* the >silence which is pregnant with meanings seems to take us deeper >than we would ordinarily go in communion via text.senuality into the holes ok lets try. Holes is always there to bee filled out, they kind of invite You to do it evrywhere there is holes. >Nobody knows how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall??(lennon)I really miss the smell of all people sitting in front of all the hardware, its not enough with the snorring from the machine the smell off elcticity. I wonder how many winds have been blown, the farting in front of the screen the burping the smoking of cigarettes in the night, the sniffing the dripping from a nose the smell off hot cofee or the the pastasauce the whatever smell of wine and roses.Whats the smell of psybernet. I like the idea of learning the media by using it, a very clever idea almost like life itself, learning make theory allong the use of it. And Silence is a time for: > Silence is a Time for Whispering > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:59:05 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: The Sound of Silence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really liked this E-Mail about the Sound of silence the speaking up on the net but I remember all the millions still living in the other half or two third of the world without any possible way to speak to anybody and surdenly not on the net.So we must we rich people must remember that this is still the the rich mans world, the majority of the world still have to write on the walls.Ore keep silence.And here silence means, I hope silence before the storm. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:48:28 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Murray on Mailbombs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /etc/aliases wrote: > > I'll be brief this time. honest. > > Bent & Walter, thanks for the posts about e-mail length... I found > Bent's so funny I couldnt get mad at him no matter how I tried & in > looking at my own posts through fun-tinted glasses I realised that yeah, > I could maybe make em a bit shorter. > > I got a great deal of insights about > myself from reading that poem of Bent's... which I wouldnt have gotten > if I'd taken the hump and gone on the defensive. > Thanks Bent... your poem zonked me right between the eyes and allowed me > to look at myself in a way I never really have before... and gain much from > it. At first I thought whats so funny??? Ok and then You managed to turn it around, becauce I got really pissed that morning Im still wondering why because I could care less but I did not. And you have gained something and a zonk right beetween the eyes.Hope it doesent hurt too much. You know I admire you abillity to write that much.And you called it I belive a kind of writing war.yeah I see.But I learned the oposite way of doing writng and still trying.A REAL ARTIST CAN MAKE ONE LINE ON A CANVAS AND IT LOOKS LIKE A MILION STARS. And that is what I belive goes with words. And Music, and therapy and yeah you name it.Like these words All you need is love or Mouse cannot fart like horse and not buttom breaking. :-) -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:09:44 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Email length MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Logeman wrote: > This list is different, there is more cohesion, and I have a > sense of all posts contributing to the dynamics, so I don't like > to ignore (though I do). I find it easier with shorter posts. > More conducive to *dialogue*. However there is plenty of "space" > here, I have a sense that the option of selective reading is > better than asking people to be selective in their posting! > Perhaps for some Steve's posts are suited to their style of > interaction. Another point: I have posted some very long posts > on occasions! If there are rules about this then they are also > made for breaking. Ok OK I agree its a very god and nice thing that this list exsist as it does.I perfer th emore short letters with not to many Qoutes in it.And yes maybee rules are made for breaking and there seems to bee a rule that critics is not very common and so is anger ore agression where is all the natural feeling.Are they transformed into nice good writing intellectual writing, nobody uses ugly words, neither do I is it comman in groups? Its not my experience.I dont do it,You dont do it.why? >Its not supervisionNo I know,and I will thank you for sharing your knowledge with me. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:07:44 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Re: Murray on Mailbombs In-Reply-To: <326C986C.454D@cybernet.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bent,=20 > mouse cannot fart like horse=20 > A REAL ARTIST CAN MAKE ONE LINE ON A CANVAS > AND IT LOOKS LIKE A MILION STARS. Great stuff Bent! w _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:06:31 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Daily life and Poetry: Reply to Bent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bent, > Please Robert I would like to know if I have understood this. > do you mean that You would like to write a poem that makes you famos all > over the world and you have your daily life that uses ore give you energy > so you cannot write the poem that you want ore ???? What I had hoped to say is that when all is finished, that I had given to the world something that would make my time spent here of value to the world. Fame? If what I create will be of value, my name doesn't need to be attached. The soul knows, and that is enough. Daily life steals from the creative energies. I find that I am caught up in tasks that fill the day without filling the soul. My energy is spent, not given, as I rush through my days teaching, reading, playing, and computing. Still, I do find some time to write. I only hope that the words that are born are of value to others as well as to myself. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:23:57 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Email length Hey all :))) Big smile, my day is almost here, in the form of a jack o'lantern. Walter, I've heard your reference to therapist self disclosure... I have thought about it for quite awhile, and wrote a paper on it last spring. It seems to me that the rigid structure of the psychotherapeutic relationships is about to fly out the window, and the godlike illusions therapists have and portray to clients is about to be rendered as meaningless... and frankly, I think you're ahead of the game. If I choose a therapist based on who he/she is, doesn't that mean I hope he or she has experienced enough of life, pain, joy, sorrow, grief, ecstasy, to help me as the client in my journey? So I personally would prefer to be with someone who has been through hell, and isn't afraid to say that if I ask. There seems to me to be a tremendous power imbalance (money symbolic of power) in a therapeutic relationship that places the therapist in that godlike position... weren't shamans believed in for their life experiences as well as for their secret knowledge? Janelle :)))))) I'm glad to hear your voice again :))))))) I don't want to miss your voice of wisdom. Bent, I'm having an increasingly difficult time understanding your posts... but I want to say that I visited your web site, loved your picture (swoon) and site, and it sent my mind spinning into creating a site of my own... if I can only find more time! It will come when it comes, as I assume the meaning of your posts will.... bringing a touch of hell, the smell of farts into Psyber-L? For anyone who just can't read another book right now (like me? I'm swamped with lit review reading for my research project/thesis... but oh, what the heck, I'll pass one of them on... Sherry Turkle's Life on the Screen, Identity in the Age of the Internet) ... I got the Phenomenon soundtrack CD this week end. Ahhhh, it's wonderful :)))))) especially Dance with Life. Keep the light burning :) Sheryl... beginning to absolutely love this confusion/chaos, still flying high _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Reality A sticker distributed by the manufacturers of commercial playground equipment to put on completed playgrounds (designed for the growth and happiness of children?)... *Improper use may cause serious injury or death* Whose reality is this? Is it any wonder that within confusion may lie comfort? Not a one liner but close. The pumpkin _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:23:54 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Murray on Mailbombs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Logeman wrote: > > Bent, > > > mouse cannot fart like horse > > > A REAL ARTIST CAN MAKE ONE LINE ON A CANVAS > > AND IT LOOKS LIKE A MILION STARS. > > Great stuff Bent! > O.K What I wrote was All you need is love or Mouse cannot fart like horse and not buttom breaking. But its this langues that I got, danish, wich noone of you proberly knows, so now I have a better translation on this methaphor( uh my spelling is awfull, I hate to look up every word in a book)So the Mouse:Mouse cannot fart like horse without arshole bursting. O.K can be used positive or negative. Love the one your with or dont think you are better than the rest or take care of yourself.Dont burst. I really like these oneline sentences that can ay mare than a thousand lines. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:47:50 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Email length MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheryl Garner wrote: > If I choose a therapist based on who he/she > is, doesn't that mean I hope he or she has experienced enough of life, pain,a.s.o I understand you completily I hope, but I have one questrion wouldent it be vice to know something about the therapist bias, I mean if you are taking theraphy in a matter of abortion, I gess it would be wise to ask What do You Mr.Therapist or Mrs. think about abortion. its good to choose I person with life experience but without knowing anything about the metathoughts of the person it couldt turn out quite wrong, I think that any therapist should be ready to declare ones religion, political, therapeutic point of wiev. Anyway its good to ask but thats not everybody that can do that. > Bent, I'm having an increasingly difficult time understanding your posts... > but I want to say that I visited your web site, loved your picture (swoon) > and site, and it sent my mind spinning into creating a site of my own... if I > can only find more time! It will come when it comes, as I assume the meaning > of your posts will.... bringing a touch of hell, the smell of farts >into psyberLO.K about homepage Im only a beginner but let me knoe if I can help in any way.Its easy to send htmls. And about understanding, I have this langues difficulty( I have an awful spelling but I choose to try to express myself instad of looking up every word in a book, but have have plans about buying the big dictonary on cd, and run my E-Mail through the spellchecker, but its 200 dollars) But the content is simply that i sometimes miss some words about have daily life in front of the screen, to make a litle more cohesion,it has a tendence to become a lot theoretical and intellestual if nobody farts so to speak.Maybe its wrong.Learning by saying, and thak You for your response. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:56:47 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Reality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheryl Garner wrote: > > A sticker distributed by the manufacturers of commercial playground equipment > to put on completed playgrounds (designed for the growth and happiness of > children?)... > > *Improper use may cause serious injury or death* > > Whose reality is this? Is it any wonder that within confusion may lie > comfort? > > Not a one liner but close. > The pumpkin > I work a lot with playgrounds and we in Denmark wich have thousends of kidergartens. We work with safety rules.And *Improper use may cause serious injury or death* is really a seek sentence, if we build everything so there is no danger at all how can we learn danger. It seems to be a american way of beeing afraid of responsability because its money the compagnies can be forced to pay, if anything goes wrong, we choose to let experts from the goverment test the playground before use and not trust any compagny before the test is done, after that there is only personal local coverment insurence to cover damage. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 05:46:21 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: PWP: (fwd) NEW: Interversity - The Present and Future of Education MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forward this, while not knowing the actual content of the list, but because of the note of familiarity of the themes, as a result of our PWP discussions. Walter ~~~ On Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:56:14 -0500, Eric Crump wrote: Interversity on macjordomo@dewey.lc.missouri.edu Interversity is a list devoted to discussing the present and future of education as it is transformed by alternative (sometimes ancient) approaches and network technologies--not necessarily the migration of institutional education to network environments, but the possibility that institutionalization itself may be obsolescent in a productively chaotic educational environment. See: http://www.missouri.edu/~rhetnet/interversity/ To subscribe: Send email to macjordomo@dewey.lc.missouri.edu Leave the subject blank and in the first line put: subscribe interversity firstname lastname Owner: Eric Crump wleric@showme.missouri.edu ------- Use this information at your own risk. For more information and disclaimer send E-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU with the command INFO NEW-LIST in the body. _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 01:12:16 -0500 Reply-To: Susan Swan Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Susan Swan Subject: Re: Computer avatar as a union of 2 competing personality theories In-Reply-To: <326b4f25.782401998@Mail.cyberxpress.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks, Walter for your input. I will check out Alta Vista and Excite once I finish up the e-mail. I will be curious myself to see how the web-based discussion works. The program which they have suggested is called, I think, Hypermail. From what I saw, it looks pretty much like a listserv, except that all the postings are kept in one place and that they are searchable. Our e-mail here is pretty primitive and so we can't do any filtering or grouping of mail as it comes in. Ah, well--when life gives you lemons...so we are making electronic lemonade. Any input from folks would be more than welcome--almost anyone has more experience with this stuff than I! Susan _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:13:25 +0100 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: /etc/aliases Subject: Breaking the Silence... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Breaking the Silence... as opposed to wind -------------------- Folks, been enjoying the posts these last few days; Found the discussions about Alta Vista interesting.. part of my job is teaching students how to search the web efficiently & it's Alta Vista and Deja News I tend to use myself. I use a different strategy for finding new interesting stuff on the web, viz. I will do a search on something and pick the most interesting site to me, and then I will do a search on the actual URL of the site e.g. the Spiritweb web site, http://www.spiritweb.org/ This lets me see who else around the world has links to Spiritweb from their web pages / news articles, and I can then read their articles and web pages. Very powerful vehicle for synchronicity... Other sites I have done this with are http://newciv.org , the New Civilisation Network homepage, and http://www.peg.apc.org/~nexus http://www.peg.apc.org/~newdawn Nexus and New Dawn magazines, respectively; Because these are all very busy sites I am usually guaranteed a massive number of results; Using Alta Vista's advanced search capability I can then rank the results in terms of what I'm particularly interested in that day.. Another way I search the net is to use the Power Search in Deja News [www.dejanews.com] to find articles I like, and I will then use the facility to see what else the author has posted, all over the net; found some really powerful stuff that way in places I'd never have thought to look e.g sci.med.dentistry for some really neat info on humor & hypnosis. I change my search strategies from time to time, but have rarely seen them discussed like this... anyone else got an unusual search strategy to share? Been enjoying the other posts too, thanks Walter, Robert, Sheryl, Susan for piling more wood onto my mental bonfire... Bent, I have been laughing friendlily again after reading your posts although like Sheryl I am finding them hard to understand.. here is my response to the 'farting' joke, it is meant to be taken in fun! --- Hark! There is something flatulent in the state of Denmark... Great artistry is afoot... words attain new meaning, and new spellings also; Am I an artist, painting on a canvas... or have I created some debased new form of aromatherapy, venting forth my noxious gases in literary form into the psyber-lavatory... first the dog bowl, now the toilet bowl is upon us! Am I an artist... perhaps. In times gone by, I dwelt in the darkened corners of student union bars as a kind of artist... a piss artist! My art also has transformed the spelling of it's word... it is art with a silent f! Foul! I hear you cry... and foul is the smell that wafts from these humorous thoughts...but at the end of the road [or the intestine], one thought still lurks in my mind... 'You cant fart against thunder' as my father used to say... This piece of (f)art copyright 1996 Steve 'Guffer' Murray On a more serious note, I do try to 'sniff' the posts and articles that I read on the net and also the ones that I post, and check that the aroma is a light, pleasant scent rather than a noxious reek... my posts are intended in good faith and good humor, and I hope they give the aroma of perfume to the reader that is intended. Susan's lovely description of the Mountain Laurel that it dwelt with me for days... BTW Bent, are you an 'olfactory ' person? By that I mean do you use smell as your primary representational system... [this is an NLP term, if you are not familiar then Wilbur or myself could elaborate] Best to all, Steve Murray grkinfo2@udcf.gla.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 03:15:54 -0700 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /etc/aliases wrote: > > Breaking the Silence... as opposed to wind > --------------------To Steve and all Uh,its difficult English that you are writing, Steve.But I managed with the help from the dictionary found one used from 1970 my god its funny, very very funny >Hark! There is something flatulent in the state of Denmark... I liked every word of the story > piss artist Ha ha ha ha ha very good and >'You cant fart against thunder' as my father used to say. Great, Steve and I learned a lot new English words I did not know before, and I promise to concentrate more to get the meaning and the spelling better. Wilbur recommend spellchecker at low price I will look for them but I will also need a Danish-English English-Danish dictionary and That cost. And to the more serious (maybe) You have a very interesting question > is smell my primary representational system I think my primary is a good mixture of kinaesthetic ,visual and and auditiv where does smell come in, thats a new one I cant see smell, some smells I hear(F)and to feel a smell ? I know only a little about NPL. And the book * structure of magic* I read it years ago.And do use the knowledge whenever I work with families. I paint,I play rock and I gess I feel the hole thing.Yeh Kinaesthetic is my primary .And smell must be kinaesthetic, the smell of perfume and a wonderful woman, and a hot guitar and a good dinner and wine and flowers on the table and candlelight and fire and Wow wow wow and And ...no I wont say it??? ha ha ha ha ............ha I like Psyber-L -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:33:07 -0400 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... Hey all... In breaking the silence, Bent says: << I think my primary is a good mixture of kinaesthetic ,visual and and auditiv where does smell come in, thats a new one I cant see smell, some smells I hear(F)and to feel a smell ? I know only a little about NPL. And the book * structure of magic* I read it years ago.And do use the knowledge whenever I work with families. I paint,I play rock and I gess I feel the hole thing.Yeh Kinaesthetic is my primary .And smell must be kinaesthetic the smell of perfume and a wonderful woman, and a hot guitar and a good dinner and wine and flowers on the table and candlelight and fire and Wow wow wow and And ...no I wont say it??? ha ha ha ha ............ha >> Is this alchemy? Alchemy of the soul? If it is, it's an interesting synchronicity for me because I'm going to an introductory meeting about it tonight. I've been invited to take a 6 week course on it... a kind of expensive course. I'm divided on whether to take this... It has a New Age feel to me, and I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the greed I'm seeing associated with New Age stuff. Does anyone else feel this? Did I just learn more about alchemy from Bent's post than any expensive course could teach me? An interesting thing happened when the fish bowl posts were going on... I went to a retreat... all women... held in a beautiful home on top of a mountain. It somehow felt weird to me, though... a retreat for feminine soul in a home Howard Hughes would have found comfortable. At night, we all went outside to look at the stars... it was astonishingly beautiful outside at night on that mountain. After a few minutes, I looked around and all the other women had gone inside. Not wanting to really go in, but also not wanting to be inappropriate, I went to join the others in that beautiful house... noticing that one glass door was shut, I went around the corner to enter what I thought was an open door... and walked straight into another glass door. Synchronicity... hmmmm. One little incident, paralleled with the psyber posts... connections, explorations, continually unfolding, what the soul lessons are, who I am, who we all are. Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 22:20:17 GMT Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Walter Logeman Subject: Technical & psychological transitions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I am using the last of my battery life as I sit in a shearers shed on a farm without electricity. I had intended to catch up on a lot of work in Psybernet on this long weekend, however Kate, is on a horse treck, and was asked to drive the support vehicle. I guess I it is good for me to stop all this work and get into the hills . . . be more sociable. Definitly good to see some more of Kate. Cyberlife has a big pull however, and I find it disturbing that it is so.=20 The PWP is on my mind . . . and I am keen to get back to webscribing . . . that was what this weekend was for! Nevermind. This is not the only distraction. I have been on the edge of my seat watching the latest developments in the cyberwld. The post I did about "Who am I" was me thinking out loud about the psychological implications of the changes happening on the Internet. Not just in the future but now, giving hints of the future. My Newstracker in Excite it very rewarding. I am getting articles daily that are attuned to my cyber and psychological interests . . . that has an impact on me! =20 =46or example: I am seeing the evolution of the Internet . . . from the initial impact of email and email groups . . . to the web where one could "browse, surf, navigate and explore" to a new phase where it comes to us . . . what does that mean? Is that a return to broadcast? It is the buzz on the net: "oh my god, it is going to be TV! Get me outta here." Some people will buy a new computer and it will have the net built in and it will have preinstalled links to news and entertainment sources which are supported via advertising. Some people may never fiddle with this and get it forever, just as some people have MSN as their home page in the Internet Explorer . . . I think this will happen, but is not the whole story.=20 Others will cast out . . . broadcast back . . . vigently accept nothing in their mail box that is not right! No junk. That very act of discarding and accepting . . . ie getting to know ones self . . . will determine what comes back . . . the means for that is also happening. How does that affect me now? One, I meditate, dream, think, and muse on this and then can't wait to write it up. More than that, I think, how can Psybernet develop and grow in this environment? Clearly the web and the psyche are very close in many ways and we here in Psybernet have something to say on all of that. In fact it is almost a cause with me that we work towards the Internet as a psyche -- soul enhancing environment, that at least for those who seek an alt to TV to being "broadcasted to" have options. How does the Psybernet web develop? Don't forget that in the last three years Psybernet went from being on a BBS, to then having the discussion spread into the Internet, to then having a web site, and then going to a listserv and closing the BBS altogether. All that took some tuning into the direction of the future. Technical transitions have psychological implications and are definitely worth discussing here. So does anyone know if we need to think bout "Castanet". MOOs, which I have heard are now Netscape compliant and will have business application? =20 These things are on my mind, and writing here gives me some peace . . . and I might go or a walk . . . with battery life left by the look of it, but no phone! Walter _____________________________________________________ Walter Logeman wlogeman@ch.cyberxpress.co.nz http://www2.chch.planet.org.nz/~walter/psybernet.html _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:35:34 GMT Reply-To: judithb@sbc1.com Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Judith Buerkel Organization: Business Connects, Inc. Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... Content-Type: text Sheryl you asked: < Is this alchemy? Alchemy of the soul? If it is, it's an interesting synchronicity for me because I'm going to an introductory meeting about it tonight. I've been invited to take a 6 week course on it... a kind of expensive course. I'm divided on whether to take this... It has a New Age feel to me, and I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the greed I'm seeing associated with New Age stuff. Does anyone else feel this?> Greed is an interesting word...I'm not sure what your parameters for greed are. For me the 80's and wall street and 22 year olds dealing with millions a second and taking home millions is greed rampant so I got off a plane and quit my sales job...at the other end is my current work for which I am paid what the person feels it is worth...I have gotten a check for $10,000 as well as another who wrote me a thank you note... and in between...it seems to me that it is a question of the economic model we are operating within...and no real viable models having emerged as yet...if one feels one is charging too much then it is a matter of the perceived value of the buyer...one large part of my life for a number of years was acting professionally...we were not paid a very livable wage in a repatory company so often people would go on the road to make enuf to sustain themselves...so how does one make a living doing the spiritual work...currently in the US one gets one's PhD,writes a book and then becomes a consultant at so much an hour...yet we have no models for evaluating the benefits of spiritual work...whatever that means... could be the experiencial learning you derived, Sheryl, was all you needed...in the adult learning model based in action reflection learning I use in my healing work I incorporate the synchronistic into a learning process which leverages both...not an either or...in the meantime we in the US are stuck in the marketing model of business and people are trying to figure out how to make a living doing what they want to do...for 35 years I did my spiritual work withfor people gratis and then had to work at my computer work to pay the bills...it became enervating to a point that was meaningless for me...now I am doing my spiritual work and receiving what each person computes as the value received in dollars, if any, and it is uncomfortable for most people...interesting the $10,000 check came from a woman entrepreneur who as a result of working with me sold her company for $6million dollars. She decided on the amount and would have given me more but she knew I was uncomfortable...so I'm in the process of learning...and yes this stuff is becoming big business...and the value received runs the gambit...an interesting economic time we live in... judith -- Judith Buerkel | Business Connects: | THE online service for entreprenuers. judithb@sbc1.com | 1220 West 6th. St., Suite 400 Cleveland, OH 44113 | Data: 216/615-8099 Voice: 615-8088 Fax: 615-8050 _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:26 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Breaking the Silence: Bent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy Monday to all, Time again for me to put in my $5.38 worth (inflation has ruined the good old expressions). Bent, I just love the way you get down into the dirt and grime of that swamp called the soul ... the excrement becomes gold. Indeed this is alchemy at work. The raw musky smells of anima and animus stewing in the cauldron of our psyche driven by the imperative demands of the soul's search for union with the godhead. The gods of heaven and hellfire taunt us through our senses and through our spirit. We roll in the mud of our creation while our thoughts reach for the stars and for our creator. Our senses screech at us to resist coming into this messy place at our birth, and our senses plead for just one more moment when it is time to leave. This life experience is alchemical work for the soul indeed. Sheryl, I think that you are right in your conclusion. And Bent, yeah ... wow wow wow and ... Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:34 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Breaking the Silence: Sheryl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheryl (who has been known to transform into a pumpkin), Synchronicity? > Is this alchemy? Alchemy of the soul? If it is, it's an interesting > synchronicity for me because I'm going to an introductory meeting > about it tonight. I wonder about that? If we are involved in meaningful dialogue that speaks from the depths of our being, from our soul so-to-speak, then we are involved in constructing meaning and re-constructing our perceptions of ourselves and our world. I would indeed think that such an activity is alchemical in nature. Looking over the course of PSYBER-L dialogues since last spring, I have noted such levels of dialogue occurring with relative frequency. I think the synchronic aspect here is the that "ah-ha!" moment which allows you to see/hear that which is/was/will-be present. For example, I just had the occasion to replace a car (my son rolled the last one). The car I chose to replace the Ford Festiva was a Dodge Shadow. After the purchase of the Shadow, I began to see other Shadows on the road where I had not seen them before. Because of my changed state of awareness I was able to register what had been there all along. Yepp, I would call that synchronous ... can someone help out here if I have wandered down a false path? > I've been invited to take a 6 week course on it... a kind of > expensive course. I'm divided on whether to take this... > It has a New Age feel to me, and I'm feeling increasingly > uncomfortable with the greed I'm seeing associated with > New Age stuff. In many ways, I'm becoming convinced that much of the New Age stuff is simply business. I fondly remember the sixties, the age of flower-power when beads, sandals, kaftans, smiling, and peace symbols were seen as aberrant threats. Soon, the media and business saw the opportunity to worship at the altar of greed. The symbols and trappings of the flower-power movement were turned into trademarks and a new generation of consumers were captured. I see the same thing happening with New Age consciousness. > Did I just learn more about alchemy from Bent's post > than any expensive course could teach me? Perhaps it is the action of interaction with Bent and his words which resulted in the learning ... communication as a learning strategy? ... If the course doesn't provide that element of dialogue, that opportunity to deconstruct and reconstruct, doesn't provide moments of stirring the alchemical cauldron, then I would say that any amount of money is too much to spend. > After a few minutes, I looked around and all the > other women had gone inside. Not wanting to really > go in, but also not wanting to be inappropriate, > I went to join the others in that beautiful house... > noticing that one glass door was shut, I went around > the corner to enter what I thought was an open door... > and walked straight into another glass door. Hmm-mm, again choices between the soul and the spirit. Reading your words makes me see the scene as a dreamscape, the primary zone for alchemical work of the soul. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 01:03:17 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Bent Bogedal Christoffersen Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Sheryl and all > I'm divided on whether to take this... It has a New Age > feel to me, and I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the greed I'm > seeing associated with New Age stuff. Does anyone else feel this? Did I > just learn more about alchemy from Bent's post than any expensive course > could teach me? The first thing I thought, was. And I remembered a NPl night with one who was a full time NPL man. It was a great show and he was very clever and very good at doing this demonstration, and the audience was excited. Not me, I always feel unconfortable when someone is trying to tell me that this is the best or the only way, becauce it means that I have to change myself into a NPLman. To pay a lot to get one way is alright if thats what You want. I felt the same with all the other directitions Growth, Primal, Encounter, psycodrama, Gestalt, systemic ect. systems that seems most of them to cost a lot and tell the only way is this. So it is a matter of making choice. I tend to use some of this from that and some of that from this, finding what can be used in the situation, what fits for me and for the client. Use what you got, its the result thats counting. Other people that I know, likes to use only one or two ways of working, but the danger I think, is that You are in danger narrowing your possibilyties. Having a good therapist, making long time therapy with me, and where I could get supervision about me and my work was all the money worth. > At night, we all went > outside to look at the stars... it was astonishingly beautiful outside at > night on that mountain. After a few minutes, I looked around and all the > other women had gone inside. Look up, and You can fell very little and part of the universe, look around, and get very confused. -- Bent Bogedal Christoffersen http://www.cybernet.dk/users/bbc/ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:33:31 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... Thanks for your feedback Judith, Robert, Bent :))) As it turned out, I got so lost going to the introductory meeting that I just called the leaders, said thanks for the invitation, and found my way home, where I created the alchemy of music and candles. It is a difficult balance when so much of what we are worth seems to be based on money. I guess I had hoped to find an openness and mutual acknowledgement as a fellow soul traveller in some new age trends, but I seem to be finding it as rigid in many ways as fundamentalist institutions. The experiential method does seem to be teaching me, Judith! Between that and the synchronistic occurances in my RL, dreams, in psyber and cyber, there is plenty to learn and plenty of triggers. I loved Robert's analogy of the car for his son... reflecting that the more open a person is, the more triggers become available. And walking into the door that night... that's the perfect description, I was walking in a dreamscape! The part of me that *should* have been embarrassed wasn't, I only felt like laughing...it felt totally natural, to walk into a glass door, and be outside. And then I come to Bent's description... <> Perfect description. :) From the State of Confusion and half way to Melancholy, Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:34:48 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: hollyg Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sheryl, I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me .. when trying to reach the people or event or place that is supposed to provide wonder, I end up off the track and run into who and what and where I am >supposed< to be. It's the in-between, not quite sure moments of being lost and frustrated that get me. Your new age/money comment reminds me of something my father used to say ... Always be wary of a person who insists they are absolutely right -- no matter whether you agree or not. Oh well, thinking of you as pumpkin at Halloween time... Holly (not talking about education >or< anecdote!) > >As it turned out, I got so lost going to the introductory meeting that I just >called the leaders, said thanks for the invitation, and found my way home, >where I created the alchemy of music and candles. >And then I come to Bent's description... > < universe, look around, and get very confused.>> > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:01:03 EST Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Dr. Schmidt" <101632.3701@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: PWP/NONPWP Hi to all, just scanned thru 320 k of messages (log9610). Schopenhauer (German philosopher) said: In a given environment, everybody is living in a different world. Best regards, FRITZ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:39:19 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Breaking the Silence - Judith Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith and all, Interesting post in reply to Sheryl. I like your notion of contextualizing of the word/concept _GREED_. > Greed is an interesting word...For me the 80's and wall street > and 22 year olds dealing with millions a second and taking home > millions is greed rampant Can we measure greed in stacks of green bills? or accumulated properties? I recall a story by Tolstoi entitled *How much land does a man need?* I guess we have to measure greed in subjective terms, our personally defined notions. A man or woman living in Geneva in straightened circumstances may well be considered wealthy and greedy by those living in Somalia. What is really the issue greed or need? Isn't each issue of greed met with an unknown need buried within the soul of that greedy person? > ...if one feels one is charging too > much then it is a matter of the perceived value of the buyer... Does one then accept the payment one perceives as too much and then feel guilty and greedy? Or, do we just shift gears and look at payment in new ways to avoid listening to the whispers of the soul? > ... experiencial learning ... the adult learning model based > in action reflection learning ... incorporate the synchronistic > into a learning process which leverages both...not an either or. Yes! But, I also think that this model of learning is also a major part of even a child's learning model. Imagine that we all become agents of creation in a paint-by-number sort of way. When the learning fits, we trigger a reflex that tells us 'Yes, this is the way it is!' We build outward to encompass the world to rebuild/recreate the universe through experience, action, and reflection. It is a wonder what words come to life through the sounds of another being's words. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:39:32 -0800 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sieur de Cyberie Organization: Re-enchanting your virtual soul Subject: Silence of the Swan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan, It has been quite a while since your voice has graced these e-waves. Have your students stolen your heart and soul and thus taken you away from being actively present with us? Or, are you in a quiet musing mode of listening to the tilting at windmills? Thoughts of you and other members of the dream group are strong at the present as I am again dreaming vividly. With these thoughts of the dream group come images of an ocean storm with its crests and troughs of waves. I wonder if I prefer the storms and its bipolar face of highs and lows, or the placid calm that numbs with its sameness (I guess the descriptive terms answers my own question)? Ah well, at least the muse is alive and pulsing with its need to speak during the storms. Like Walter, I have also created a personalized page for Excite Live. I often wonder what my home page will be like when I find the energy (ambition) and time to construct it? What experiences have you had with HyperMail? Alta Vista? Excite Live? I look forward to re-joining you in conversation here in PSYBER-land. Robert de Cyberie _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:48:06 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: Breaking the Silence... Holly and Fritz ... << Always be wary of a person who insists they are absolutely right -- no matter whether you agree or not. >> Yep! Because... <> I love it! (Couldn't restrain myself) Sheryl :) _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 17:32:44 EST Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Dr. Schmidt" <101632.3701@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: synchronicity and chaos, the log9610 file Hello to all: synchronicity has two aspects, first that two or more events occur at the same time (the physical aspect), and second that thoughts or actions of different people converge (psychic aspect). The second phenomenon is more aptly described by the word synchronization. In the previous messages of Psyber-L these two aspects are intertwined. If people have the same or similar thoughts at the same time this is described by the word "Zeitgeist". Internet communication is a propagator of the Western Zeitgeist. But the result (as that of global TV) is synchronization and synchronicity of many people. All are thinking and behaving along similar lines. Even stressing chaos in cyberspace is in line with this notion. Those who maintain that their contributions are chaotic are in reality in tune with each other. The frequent discussion of synchronous experiences are ample proof. Non-synchronous processes carry the potential of creativity. Really chaotic thoughts are the germs of new insights. However, once they are uttered and accepted, synchronization of response leads to a hierarchy of values within the zeitgeist. So much from the microscope directed at some chaotic processes. FRITZ _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 03:53:26 EST Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Dr. Schmidt" <101632.3701@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: heureka Hi Sheryl, >I love it! (Couldn't restrain myself)< Sometimes the achievement of cognition occurs in quantum jumps accompanied by a heureka feeling. Regards FRITZ PS. Things get more and more difficult. Besides consulting a dictionary all the time, now I even have to look up a list of emoticons. But I could not find >:)< what does it mean? :-) I found as "I am happy". _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:04:12 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Happy Halloween to All Souls Happy Halloween to all Souls... Today, when some believe that spirits enter the world from behind the veil of *reality*, I want to thank you for your sharing of thoughts, soul, spirit and connection... including those who remain in silence. You have fed my own soul and spirit in exploring realities, the code of my own soul, and in believing in *magic.* I wish you all as exciting a journey as I have had in exploring spirit and soul. Smiling Pumpkin, a happy jack o' lantern today, glowing from the flame of the candle within _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:04:14 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: Sheryl Garner Subject: Re: heureka Hi Fritz... << PS. Things get more and more difficult. Besides consulting a dictionary all the time, now I even have to look up a list of emoticons. But I could not find >:)< what does it mean? :-) I found as "I am happy". >> Your happy interpretation is correct :) Either from laziness, stubbornness or trying to assert my independence, I always leave out the nose ;) <--- winky face. Thank you for mentioning it... it reinforces a dream I had last night referring to my approach to life... which is essentially as a living qualitative experiment... and examining whether I have explored one step enough before going on to the next. Smiley Sheryl _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 20:55:52 -0500 Reply-To: Psybernet Mailing List Sender: Psybernet Mailing List From: "Janell F. Adair" Subject: Re: Happy Halloween to All Souls Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sheryl: It's great to hear of someone like yourself who has these beliefs. I think you and I may share some of them together, but I just don't have your knack for putting them into words. Keep talking to us and Happy Halloween!!!!!! Janell At 12:04 PM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote: >Happy Halloween to all Souls... > >Today, when some believe that spirits enter the world from behind the veil of >*reality*, I want to thank you for your sharing of thoughts, soul, spirit and >connection... including those who remain in silence. You have fed my own >soul and spirit in exploring realities, the code of my own soul, and in >believing in *magic.* > >I wish you all as exciting a journey as I have had in exploring spirit and >soul. > >Smiling Pumpkin, a happy jack o' lantern today, glowing from the flame of the >candle within > >_______________________________________________________________ >For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to >LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L > > _______________________________________________________________ For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L