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Date:         Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:52:18 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Announcing Fiona Elaine Hynes
In-Reply-To:  <p0433010cb7d4218eeb5b@[207.54.160.11]>
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Last Saturday, my wife gave birth to Fiona Elaine
Hynes.  Everyone is doing fine.  For those interested
in my recounting of Fiona's birth and the first photo
of her on line, please take a look at
http://ahynes1.homeip.net/fiona.htm

Aldon

__________________________________________________
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NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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Date:         Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:33:52 -0400
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From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Announcing Fiona Elaine Hynes
In-Reply-To:  <20011009175218.89986.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
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Aldon,

Hey way to go, congrats, and may Fiona live a long, healthy and interesting
life.

regards,

Stephen

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Date:         Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:47:20 +1300
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From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Announcing Fiona Elaine Hynes
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Aldon

Welcome to the world Fiona Elaine!  And what a heartwarming
little bundle she is in your picture Aldon.  Good to be included
in your birth time - with the familiar Joni Mitchell and - and
the sad and shocking news items - all of it unable to overwhelm
the marvelous moment of birth of a new person in the world.

Walter

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Date:         Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:09:34 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Announcing Fiona Elaine Hynes
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Hi Aldon,  Congratulations on your new baby girl.
    I enjoyed the description on your homepage, appreciating how well you
showed the chaotic scene of complementary and contradictory stimuli...

    new mother's room --
    "America Strikes Back!"
    muted on TV

    Blessings on you all,

    Nancy

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Date:         Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:24:01 -0400
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From:         "Janell F. Adair" <jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Congratulations
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Hi Aldon:

      CONGRATULATIONS!!!!  On your new baby girl.  Thank goodness that =
new life goes on in the midst of all the turmoil.  She's beautiful!!!

     Blessings.

            Love Janell

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Date:         Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:45:06 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: question
In-Reply-To:  <p04330101b7cb26ece304@[207.54.160.128]>
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Stephen

Question...

I have never questioned so much in my life.  You say unsettled
Stephen... I imagine still - I am.

> Today -here in f2f- we had moved to the gallows humor stage. Went to a nice
> party with Judith. But, really, I was in a daze most of the day and thought
> at one point I had lost my keys. Became very unsettled because I almost
> never lose anything like keys.

There is no key?  We are locked into this now? I have heard a lot
of lost key stories this week.

~~~

> If I told you what the world is going to be like in one year, would you
> want to know? That's a heavy question whether I know the future or not. It
> also transcends psychology if you really think about it, gets beyond what
> 'eggs', what 'basket'.

I don't want to know.  I try to not know, but i do know - and it
is not just a year from now but now...

I can see is a shocking war... I keep hearing the Shakespeare
lines:

A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

~~~

Stephen, your dream opens with the end game of all arsenals being
launched.  My delay in being here with this dream is along the
lines you suggest above ... "would you want to know?" -- no.  Can
I face what the opening of this dream means for means for me (see
the Mark Antony speech above) - no.

> I had a dream -this is the first time I've shared it- this week: the world
> was engulfed by the end game of all the arsenals being launched, perspected
> by terrible fireballs rolling through urban canyons and over countrysides.

"terrible fireballs rolling through urban canyons and over
countrysides"

My parents were in the thick of WWII - occupied Netherlands -
when I was born in 1944.  I grew up with tales of horror; hunger,
bombing, atrocities, abduction of children, mass graves, revenge
killings, villages with no men etc. My father was called up to
report to be sent to Germany and he went underground instead -
and was almost caught but successfully! hid under the bed while
armed Nazis searcher the house.

I learnt to blot it all out.  I thought we had learnt.  I thought
it would never be like that again - that childish hope of mine is
still there - was rekindled through my generation wearing flowers
and being anti-war and "giving peace a chance" etc.

"terrible fireballs rolling through urban canyons and over
countrysides"

it is happening - and has been happening all along but the
distance and relative peace here in NZ (and in much of the
"west") has made it possible to be blind to it all - and in some
ways it still is possible.  I feel blind even as i see... very
powerless

~~~

Stephen, my first response to the first few lines of your dream.
I expect I'll be working with this dream - and my responses - and
thinking of it as my dream and a gift from the universal depths.

All for now

Walter

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Date:         Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:00:28 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: question
In-Reply-To:  <p04330101b7cb26ece304@[207.54.160.128]>
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Stephen, All,

I am continuing with my experience in response to your dream
Stephen.

  [P] question
  Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:43:04 -0400

> The next thing I know I am witnessing great good and powerful and evil
> personages being assembled one by one in a mountaintop field. They are,
> evidently, being transported via some blueish beam of light. Once assembled
> they wander around speechless. Everybody is there, tens of people, Bin
> Laden, the Dali Lama, Bush etc. This impossibly dark green human with
> bright green eyes in a navy suit arrives.

"If this were my dream..." is how i am seeing it - in other words
this is not a comment on Stephen in any way. However I do see
that some collective approach to a dream will bring out the
archetypal aspects and my responses contribute to that.

If this were my dream... I 'd be struck with the revelation of
the forces of good and evil.  I don't like the words or the
notion at all. That there are mistakes and flaws and stupidity
and misguided actions is obvious but evil?  Of course there are
horrors!  This dream opens with such horror and recalls the
destruction and war... So I think of my own good and evil...

I wonder how I'd line up the personages in th dream... OBL = evil
Dali Lama = Good and where is Bush? And as I look at these
equations I see an absolutism that I don't like.  The Dali Lima's
response to the twin tower attack was to respond with LOVE.  I am
suspicious... I am suspicious for the fist time of his...
fundamentalism.  That it is in the dream (which i trust!!) means
that I am forced to acknowledge evil - even though i do not want
to!

But then the green man arrives!  I find him trustworthy at this
point in the dream.  Green man - nature - earth - but not of the
earth at the same time - alien - outsider.  I like outsiders -
they do not "belong" and have no vested interests.  But who
knows?  So far this is still just an immediate response to this
green man.  His blue suit give me the feeling that he has made an
effort - like a hippy son at his mothers funeral.

His impossible-ness gives him an authority - he more than the
historical figures in the dream come from the depths of the soul
- his arrival is still reassuring!

~~~

Enough for now...


Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:37:53 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      one question
In-Reply-To:  <acctstk6n22m063i5e7a0f6tko86gnvk1b@4ax.com>
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Walter, all,

Thanks for sharing your comments about my dream. I have not subjected this
dream to the usual modest analysis with respect to it being a personal
dream. This is because the dream was unlike any dream I've ever had and
also because I do have a process for regarding my own dreams that is long
standing. Instead, I let my 'participant-observer' experience of events
before and after act as my guide.

Basically it doesn't fit into my usual framing, a framing that has served
my own inner work ever since I began to consider the symbolic messages my
own unconscious served 'up'. However, this isn't to say the dream is not
partly a personal message to me about my own life. I'd like to share with
Psyber-L how I did process the dream in a moment.

Before I do so I would like to characterize the peculiarity of the dream.
One, it presents a narrative that is fairly complete. In a way, it isn't
unlike what I might have come up with had it been fashioned through an
active imagination, or, had it been a lucid dream. Two, my place in the
dream is that of a witness. Three, it is a grand dream, and the dreamer,
me, is prone to grand, inflated perspectives.

Normally the several dreams every year which cohere for me as personal
dreams address the defeat of grand and impractical outlooks. They
compensate for my own tendency to be too one-sided in the direction of
impracticality, 'dis-incarnation' (i.e. without my body,), languor and
distraction, inflation, and my attachment to my many illusions.

***

I experienced three numinous features to this dream. One is the appearance
of the green man, (who in retrospect is Khidr). The second is the reduction
at the end to a transcendent single question. Third is its completeness as
a narrative: its tension prospectively resolved by the potent answer to the
question.

I took this materia to one amplification, an amplification provided by
chapter 3 of THE ARCHETYPES AND THE COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS; specifically
Jung's use of the 18th Sura (The Cave) of the Quran to illustrate "a
typical set of symbols illustrating the process of transformation". (pp
135-147). In this section Jung uses the mythological presentation of Khidr,
the 'green man' ("the verdant one") and Khidr's appearance as a guide to
Moses to explore the matrix hidden under the apparent. It is a brilliant
exegis; it explores completely the most grand themes of transformation and
mystical apprehension.

As far as the dream goes, the sura refers to a pertinent question:

[18.65] Then they found one from among Our servants [Khidr] whom We had
granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.
[18.66] Musa [Moses] said to him: Shall I follow you on condition that you
should teach me right knowledge of what you have been taught?
[18.67] He said: Surely you cannot have patience with me
[18.68] And how can you have patience in that of which you have not got a
comprehensive knowledge?
[18.69] He said: If Allah pleases, you will find me patient and I shall not
disobey you in any matter.
[18.70] He said: If you would follow me, then do not question me about any
thing until I myself speak to you about it

[http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=448502]

***

As I feel it, the sura has a primary import and several fascinating
secondary imports. Above all the primary import is *the appearance of
things, (or, what events are apparently,) hides from us the actuality*.
Aspects of this conundrum may be fruitfully related to world events.

Secondarily, I'll raise one aspect. Jung closes his treatment with the
following statement about the inner tradition of Islam, "Nevertheless, the
legend expresses the obscure archetype of transformation so admirably that
the passionate religious eros of the Arab finds it completely satisfying."

Obviously, on another level with respect to the 'non-mystical' believer
this expression may regard the passionate (e)valuations of the fanatical
terrorist, the Muslim, and, finally, the one-sidedness of human nature.
Here is the path to the basing of certain wishes in the apparent rather
than the actual.

We see this in the call to 'end terrorism', 'God is on our side', and we
see it in the terrorists' wish to create a situation in which "hopelessness
in view of paradise" (one way of describing a certain kind of passionate
religious eros,) doesn't suffer the aggravations of modernity.

Almost everything took on a far-from-mundane cast in the aftermath of the
provocative dastardly attack. Who wasn't buried in the complexity of the
apparent?

***

More amplifications 'arrived'. The most interesting synchronicity took
place the week after I shared the dream with Psyber-L and Jung-Fire. During
a phone call with Charles, I spent some time on the phone with his son
Emlyn. Emlyn was preoccupied with a toy airplane at first. Then, in
explaining a tv show he was watching he told me the story concerned a
magical sword that had the property of being able to 'go into the future
and change the past'.

Then Charles led me to a story told by Idris Shah in "Tales of the
Dervishes". The story, about a princess, who, through her tribulations
becomes mysteriously prepared for the fulfillment of her destiny, echoes
the central idea of 'through the symbol' transformation expressed by Jung.

I was inspired by these startling developments to write a 'grand' piece
about the problematic of frames of reference. (It thudded to the table on
Jung-Fire.) This came about because so much of the dialogues I was
observing or engaging had about them the quality of a clash of frames, a
not very surprising result of being suddenly plunged into complexity.

***

The pendulum then for me swung away from, the 'mystical' pole. (Quite
oddly, it was my own engagement of the religion of Islam, (in 1985-1990),
that loosened irrevocably my own sense that God is, for me, something other
than the vital core of natural awareness. As I've said before, perhaps the
transmission got messed up!) Here on Psyber-L, and elsewhere, I
characterized how my novel being-in-Islam made me not a Muslim. But, I
wasn't surprised to then read in The New York Review of Books a statement
that encapsulates a modern perspective at odds with the supra-personal
conception of religion and deity.

<<Darwinism, despite its radical effect on science, has yet to temper the
self-centered way in which we assess our place and actions in the world.
Think of the shadows now falling across our planet: overpopulation,
pollution, dwindling and maldistributed resources, climactic disruption,
new and resurgent plagues, ethnic and religious hatred, and ravaging of
forests and jungles, and the consequent loss of thousabds of species per
year - the greatest mass extinction, it has been said, since the age of
dinosaurs. So long as we regard ourselves as creatures apart who need only
repent of our personal sins to retain heaven's blessing, we won't take the
full measure of our species-wide responsibility for these calamities.

An evolutionary perspective, by contrast, can trace our present woes to the
dawn of agriculture ten thousand years ago, when, as Niles Eldredge has
observed, we became "the first species in the entire 3.8 billion-year
history of life to stop living inside local eco-systems". Today, when we
have burst from six million to six billion exploiters of a biosphere whose
resilience can no longer be assumed, the time has run out for telling
ourselves that we are the darlings of a deity who placed nature here for
our convenience. We are the most resourceful, but also the most dangerous
and disruptive, animals in this corner of the universe. A Darwinian
understanding of how we got that way could be the first step toward a wider
ethics commensurate with our real transgressions, not against God but
against Earth itself and its myriad forms of Life.

Frederick Crews, Saving Us From Darwin II, The New York Review of Books,
October 12, 2001>>

This is congruent with my own experience. For me, simply, the question of
God then regards to what extent human awareness may penetrate the apparent
so as to realize the actual. In personal terms, God Willing (awareness
willing!), the reference point is rooted in the transformative process:
what is one's *actual* destiny to concern? Back to the dream: a single
question with a *right* answer.

Writ large there is the strange emergence of paradox upon paradox. What is
the apparent destiny of our planet? (Some castigate the fanatic for their
hopeless hopelessness even as the castigator withdraws from the
uncertainties of a world no longer providing facile guarantees that
tomorrow will be very much like today was. Emlyn's magical sword.)

***

My own current context allows for asking this question. Even as the
psychology of the puer aeternus defines accurately my 'symbolic' task, (the
chapter which precedes chapter 2 <Concerning Rebirth> is <Psychological
Aspects of the Mother Archetype>) I have ended up in a borderland today. On
June 3rd my father was drowned in a sailing accident. On June 7th, (at the
funeral home!) my employer informed me his company was closing up and that
my job managing a record store was to end. On June 9th I signed a lease for
an apartment thus allowing me to move from the suite on the third floor of
my mother's house where I had lived coincident with her two year cancer
treatment.

After moving, in the middle of July I began work on a series of musical
compositions I titled "In Khorossan"; Khorossan referring to eastern Iran
and parts of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan. (In Mashhad in
Khorossan is one of the world's most beautiful mosques and one of the
holiest places of Shi'ism, Goharshad Mosque.) The music is dedicated to an
Iranian I studied dance and drumming with a few years ago..

As it happened, I had not begun to search for an apartment but happened
upon a third floor flat above the local jazz club because a friend who is a
concert promoter hipped me to a vacancy. Newly located, he a few weeks
later (in late July) told me he would in fact bring my onetime friend,
associate and mentor, the South African pianist Abdullah Ibrahim to play
his alchemical music (artistic messages rooted in "African traditional
science") at the club at the end of September.
(http://junior.apk.net/~hoon/6Mantra_modes.html) In August Judith and I
began meeting for the first time in over a year. I turned 47 on September
2. Then: 9-11. On September 14 I had the dream. On September 18 Dr. Ibrahim
cancelled his concert.

(Hey, its sometimes like even I never got to the 'how to land' part of the
lesson!)

Liminality's double edge; as you said Walter, "I have heard a lot of lost
key stories this week." But, the other point both stories make is the
defeat of the 'apparent obvious'.

People ask me "what are you going to do?" This reminds me of an aphorism
Dr. Ibrahim told me, "the only thing left to do is to do!"

...where the dream leads... Designing and facilitating experiential tools
in collaboration with an adept woman is one answer. On the other hand, here
in the borderlands, finishing this gripping message of music seems
compelling. others suggest: 'better look for job!'

(Where's Khidr?) Personally viewed, the dream, despite all this heady
investigation, is about destiny in the most practical terms.

As a great dream, all of you will have to tell me.

regards, peace,

Stephen

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Date:         Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:37:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      another timely dream
In-Reply-To:  <acctstk6n22m063i5e7a0f6tko86gnvk1b@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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all,

Hiya. How's everybody doing? I ask not as a phony courtesy but because I'd
like to know. At this point in Psyber-L's 'story' I'm not even sure to whom
by everybody refers.

***

I had a dream last night I'd like to share because it reflects not only my
own nature but something of an imaginal picture of the state of our world.
That may be discounted as a simple inflation of the personal but I would
wonder if anyone also sees enough collective aspects to warrant considering
it not only as a personal dream.

***

The dream was very vivid. I had gone to sleep much earlier than
usualbecause my sleep patterns have been a bit thrown off and I've been
working in my studio in spontaneously timed (!) creative bursts. The dream
woke me up at the usual 5am.

It's in three parts:

(1) I'm on some kind of mission to find something that hasn't been
specified. I'm dressed casually but have draped an American flag over me. I
wear it un-self-consciously. The setting is 'afghanistan-like', hills
dotted by ruined villages and those villages connected by narrow paths, the
kind we associate with hiking paths. In the dream I feel myself in
Afghanistan.  The dream is in color but the scene is shades of brown and
gray. My feeling while going from village to village and asking of the few
villagers I encounter, "Do you know where I can find what I'm looking for?"
is urgency but not pessimism. In other words I feel very focused. The
villagers are men and women dressed just like the afghani's are dressed in
the photos that have opened up their world to us in part.

(2) Finally I encounter a middle-aged woman who points up the hillside to a
path and tells me to go on the path and keep an eye out for a doorway on
the right. I do so and come across on the top of the hill a double door
like a tornado shelter's doors and go into a lighted tunnel. I feel very
encouraged and run down the tunnel. I emerge out of another set of double
doors. I'm at the bottom of a little grass swale and at the top is a big
village with several buildings. The building close to me is, again, not
modern, made of big stone blocks, one story, and with no glass in the tall
windows. I go in the front door and see immediately that it is a school
because there are lockers along one side of the hallway. The hallway is
empty but a man approaches me. He is afghani looking but dressed in a suit.
He comes up to me and tells me:

"We have been waiting for you. Your room is right here." And he points to a
door  right to my left.

I go into the room and see it is full of female students (younger
teenagers,) and a very beautiful woman teacher standing at a blackboard. To
her right, my left, is a big TV and a vcr on a cart.

(3) She says (an approximate memory after I awoke,), "Oh good. You can take
over but, first, the principle -who is a very old woman- wants me to show
this film." I take a seta at the lone empty desk. She turns the tv on and
there is Dr. C. G. Jung, seated in an easy chair, pipe in hand talking
about something. (!?)

This startles me from my sleep and I wake up! The truly gripping parts of
the dream as I feel them immediately upon waking are: the vivid flag I'm
wearing, the sense of urgency but not emergency, the brightly lit tunnel,
the beautiful teacher, and the complete surprise of seeing that the film
features Jung.

***

I feel fairly elated as I recover as much of the dream as I can. This is
only the second time a Dr. Jung figure has appeared to me in a dream. The
first was thirteen or so years ago and, without going into the dream
out-of-its-context, Inn the older dream the Jung figure told me "The secret
is not secret!". He was kind of upset at me!

Anyway, as always, I am sharing this just as I encourage any of you to
share glimpses of your own inner worlds and work.

Comments? (I plan to send this to a few venues, btw.)

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:08:55 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: another timely dream
In-Reply-To:  <p04330100b800b6d9fe58@[207.54.160.36]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen

> Hiya. How's everybody doing? I ask not as a phony courtesy but because I'd
> like to know. At this point in Psyber-L's 'story' I'm not even sure to whom
> by everybody refers.

Not seen as phony by me - and gives me a lead in to being here -
thanks.  Have not read your latest dream but thought i'd go with
this contextual opening for a start.

I'm ok!  But very worn out in this year of intensity.  House
still under offer - new one bought - shifting next week - Kate
freaking out with the grief and stress of her new business - me
finding that stressful and anxiety provoking.  On top of that the
war!

I am affected by it - heaps of dreams too.  But have been feeling
more and more politically motivated.  I find I need to contribute
in some way that is political rather than psychological.  Have
done that by setting up a group and website (will post here soon
re that for your interest).

I find it disturbing when what seem to me to be straight forward
responses of opposition to aggressive and futile acts are seen as
some sort of extremism - hence my need for a place which is
specifically anti-war.

As for "being here" - the story of Psyber-L continues...

As you know I am also in other forums Stephen and I expect to see
your dream there too.  It makes good sense to me that you post it
where it suits - and in some way it suits me too.  Yet there is a
tension.  It is the "vessel" thing the container thing.  Shows me
how much the container contributes to my interpretation and
experience of a dream.  When I divide my perceptions over two
contexts i divide... and on this occasion disappeared I am sorry
to say. If I cant be in one - I'll be in neither... not quite
true - as i have been here with your dream Stephen more fully
than in the other context.

So, thanks again for asking...

How is everyone else doing?   :)


Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:08:41 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      New Zealand Action to Stop the War
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

As i mentioned in the previous post i have set up a NZ stop the
war group and website.  Copy of the invite with links here:

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/nzstopwar/invite.html


Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:52:18 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: another timely dream
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello, all,

N:    Me too, okay.

    Found Stephan's dream interesting.  It must be going around.  I
correspond with someone in the Philippines who also had a dream apparently
located in Afghanistan, which he thought might carry collective meaning.
     For me what tied the Afghan setting to you (and possibly your own
experience) was the underground tunnel.  I was struck by  the 'tornado
doors'.  Haven't seen any in a long while though I remember them from my
childhood in the Mid-West, usually leading to basements.  Going underground
in a preconstucted tunnel with two entry/exit doors.  (You seem to be 'on a
quest' and possibly must go into Unc. to reach your goal) Yesterday I
replayed "Matter of Heart" and saw Jung sitting in a wing chair with pipe.
As you know, I often find your posts obscure (though this dream one is very
clearly told.)  Could this be connected with his upset with you over 'a
secret'?    If so, I must say, 'He's a fine one to talk!'

Walter writes:
> I'm ok!  But very worn out in this year of intensity.  House
> still under offer - new one bought - shifting next week - Kate
> freaking out with the grief and stress of her new business - me
> finding that stressful and anxiety provoking.  On top of that the
> war!

N:  Walter, have you told the list about Kate's new job?  Musta missed it.
Dunno what 'grief'.  Stress makes sense with most new indeavors.  I can see
you you'd both feel grief over your old house.  It was lovely.  Perhaps new
one is also?

> As you know I am also in other forums Stephen and I expect to see
> your dream there too.

N: Perhaps Stephen knows.  I'm making no connection.  Is it a secret?

    Best to all,  Nancy

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:49:23 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Changes
In-Reply-To:  <002f01c15fe1$ac025980$8d0f1ed0@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nancy,

Re: [P] another timely dream

> N:  Walter, have you told the list about Kate's new job?  Musta missed it.

I am not sure.  She is creating a horse trekking business - I did
the website!  http://www.lyfordtreks.co.nz  It means we live 145k
apart and a lot of hard work.  Kate loves the work but not the
life style changes for us.

> Dunno what 'grief'.  Stress makes sense with most new indeavors.  I can see
> you you'd both feel grief over your old house.  It was lovely.  Perhaps new
> one is also?

The new one is fine but small and not yet home.  The grief is
just that life is not the same - not that it is not good.  It has
triggered stuff for kate beyond the immediate and put her into
quite a hole - but we are better for entering into the process
deeply together.


> > As you know I am also in other forums Stephen and I expect to see
> > your dream there too.
>
> N: Perhaps Stephen knows.  I'm making no connection.  Is it a secret?

No not secret - but... confidential?  Contained?

I would not take our discussions here out of this context - they
belong here.  But the feeling of a split arises when i discuss
the same things in two places.  YET that very experience is
significant!  It is part of the overall context of the
discussion!


Walter

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