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Subject: File: "PSYBER-L LOG0106"
To: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:46:17 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L Mailinglist software
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Hi all,

I wrote:

> I am now in negotiation with a friend here who sets up Linux
> stuff - and might move over my whole Psybernet domain to his
> server.  That seems like a great move - groups will have the
> psybernet name in their address.

However this is taking longer than expected, and may fall through
- he is moving his server from one provider to another.

SO I have renewed Psyber-L at Lsoft, with the archives, for the
next three months.


Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:02:22 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Welcome J. Wyatt Ehrenfels
In-Reply-To:  <NFBBICBKCKBLIINFMEKMAEPDCBAA.ehrenfels@fireflysun.com>
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J. Wyatt Ehrenfels

Hi - I have just added you to this group at your request.

Your brief intro is below.

You may be interested in looking at an article I wrote about a
dreamevent that some of us in this group were in last year:

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/dearticle000404.htm


Thanks for joining this group.


Walter

~~~


> My interests are varied, ranging from a sociological analysis of the
> profession of psychology to personality-oriented dream research.

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:36:09 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "J.Wyatt Ehrenfels" <Ehrenfels@FIREFLYSUN.COM>
Subject:      Re: Welcome J. Wyatt Ehrenfel
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I did not know when I answered your question that I was introducing myself.
Allow me to round out my introduction in saying that I have kept a 15-year
database/diary of my dreams, which has proven fruitful in my personal
researches, and that I recently published a novel Fireflies in the Shadow of
the Sun (http://www.fireflysun.com), which represents an attempt on my
behalf to rescure/resurrect the psyche from the field of psychology.

I look forward to the discussions.

J. Wyatt

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Logeman <walter@psybernet.co.nz>
To: J. Wyatt Ehrenfels <ehrenfels@fireflysun.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 5:56 AM
Subject: Welcome J. Wyatt Ehrenfel


>
> "J. Wyatt Ehrenfels" <ehrenfels@fireflysun.com>
>
>   subscribe
>   Fri, 11 May 2001 15:26:09 -0400
>
>
> > My interests are varied, ranging from a sociological analysis of the
> > profession of psychology to personality-oriented dream research.
> >

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:19:22 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Welcome J. Wyatt Ehrenfel
In-Reply-To:  <004d01c0f238$6d18b500$5267b13f@4nwev>
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Dear J.Wyatt

> I did not know when I answered your question that I was introducing myself.

It is *meant* to be clear in the joining process.  Let me know
just where that went awry - if there is something that needs
fixing.

This process of introducing yourself like this was inteded to
make sure ...

a.  People were welcomed, and there was a conscious process of
joining.

b.  The ongoing group was aware of a new face in the room and
there is a more natural impact on the gathering.

Has it worked... ?

Maybe a little.  I'd be interested to hear it has impacted
people.  We coulod go back to people slipping in unnoticed!

~~~

> Allow me to round out my introduction in saying that I have kept a 15-year
> database/diary of my dreams, which has proven fruitful in my personal
> researches, and that I recently published a novel Fireflies in the Shadow of
> the Sun (http://www.fireflysun.com), which represents an attempt on my
> behalf to rescure/resurrect the psyche from the field of psychology.

What a marvelous and heroic thing to do!  I have every sympathy
with the idea.

I am a therapist in private practice - social work, psychodrama
and jungian background - and i have a sense of suffering from the
onslaught on the psyche in my profession - by the profession. It
seems worse than ever!

I have had a look at your website and have begun to read.

> I look forward to the discussions.

So do I. As I began to read i had a sense of entering into a
pretty hefty war zone.  You have some potent critique right up
front.  I see the "atrocities" all the time, yet I shy from quite
calling them that - at least in public.  I think I see a lot of
it as sheer ignorance and also as you mention "systemic". In
tother words it is in the system - which is so much largetr than
the individuals. But that is no reason to shy away...

All for now,


Walter







Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
BA DipSkWk CQSW MNZAP
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:14:16 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Jung seminar on the shadow
In-Reply-To:  <008b01c0ea13$d22e45e0$d60e1ed0@default>
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Nancy

>     Thought some among you might be interested in this seminar, which
> started today, on the shadow from Jung Page.
>     Best, Nancy

> http://www.cgjungpage.org/articles/acshadow4.html.

Thanks for the post Nancy... did you or anyone else form here
attend this group online?

I noticed another - to me attractive - article on the jung
page... I'll find it an post it up the url.


Walter


Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
BA DipSkWk CQSW MNZAP
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:27:11 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Do the gods occupy cyberspace
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi all


http://www.cgjungpage.org/psychtech/bostock1.html

This is a paper that covers some of the central ideas that relate
to the psyche in cyberspace...

He leads off with the question...

"Do the gods occupy cyberspace? Can soul be constructed in
virtual reality?"

~~~

I have been feeling my absence here like a sort of psychic wound.
It is as if Psyber-L and my neglected web-pages are a hole in the
side of my soul... as if its very presence and lack of my
involvement are a drag.  It feels like my connection here is one
I wont let go of but one I neglect - like an old marriage taken
for granted.

Can the soul be constructed at all? Not really - that is a bad
line - but that it manifests in cyberspace is totally fine with
me.  Where else but in some form of virtual reality is it?  Every
technological development simply makes the soul more easily
embodied...


Enough


Walter








Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
BA DipSkWk CQSW MNZAP
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:45:14 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Jung seminar on the shadow
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>From Walter:
> > http://www.cgjungpage.org/articles/acshadow4.html.
>
> Thanks for the post Nancy... did you or anyone else form here
> attend this group online?


 Yes, Walter.  I did 'attend' and one earlier one a couple of months ago.
The notices are coming into Jung-L, Robert Longre's list.  (Don't know if he
had time to listen in.)  Those of the list who attended and commented after
weren't very impressed and I found it hard to disregard their reactions.
For myself I found it overly conservative, with little new, but then I've
not sure what level of Jungian knowledge the seminars are aimed at.  Over
the years I've found that makes a great deal of difference in how I receive
seminar content.  I greatly prefer seminars (like those of Chiron at Ghost
Ranch, now defunct) which are cutting edge, aimed at practicing and training
analysts of both Feeling and Thinking dominance (i.e. not too intellectually
theoretical).  If there are any of those still around, I wish someone would
let me know.
   I think the List's experience was that only a select and deferential few
of those questioners who jumped in early were recognized.  These included
none of the list members, which put a few noses out of joint.
   If Robert has another viewpoint, I hope he will post it here.
   I should add that I did find some of the examples interesting, such as
those of Ann Casement's stemming from her anthropological (preceding her
analytic) discipline.

    Don't know how objective this is, but hope it helps,

    Blessings,  Nancy

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:17:56 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Do the gods occupy cyberspace
In-Reply-To:  <4pd9itglkpl74istui567tsah313qnp75t@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, all,

>I have been feeling my absence here like a sort of psychic wound.
>It is as if Psyber-L and my neglected web-pages are a hole in the
>side of my soul... as if its very presence and lack of my
>involvement are a drag.  It feels like my connection here is one
>I wont let go of but one I neglect - like an old marriage taken
>for granted.

It still strikes me as weird that Psyber-L can't sustain itself beyond its
long-standing modest level. Which is to say, it takes a lot more than your
own neglect!

***

>Every
>technological development simply makes the soul more easily
>embodied...

I'm not sure this is true as I view it. The problem I have is with feeling
the word *embodied* to encompass the actual (and self-evident) disembodied
aspect of cyberspace. I've mentioned before that there is a minor schism in
analytic psychology over whether cyberspace encourages a kind of
disincarnation or does not, simply because the lack of a sense of the body
in interactions tends to amplify some aspects over others. (Here 'aspects'
used to cheaply designate, for example, functions and qualities of the
psyche.)

Welcome to our quiet space, J. Wyatt.

regards to all,

Stephen

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:00:34 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Do the gods occupy cyberspace
In-Reply-To:  <p04330100b74fb9b70f4e@[207.54.160.224]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen

> It still strikes me as weird that Psyber-L can't sustain itself beyond its
> long-standing modest level. Which is to say, it takes a lot more than your
> own neglect!

I am going through some changes in my life, which appear first as frustrations
and dissatisfactions with this and that - major things such as my job and so on
- but just this and that when compared to deeper developments...

I have been calling it a Saturn Second return, Individuation... etc., perhaps a
little corny but reassuring to name these processes. I am having a lot of dreams
each with strong images - giving the impression that it is not me - but
something happening to me.

And that might fit here too - I am sure it is more than my own neglect!  Phew
that is a nice thought - but my neglect is a product of the same deeper thing
that is keeping us from going beyond the "long-standing modest level".  I think
we have had valiant attempts to name this thing... we have had hypothesis about
the social aspects (like how we do things here and the numbers and so on) but
also about the underlying - we have had discussions of movements in phases, of
the images of the underlying quest.

It has been stated before - but the more silent we are the louder it gets!
Weird is right...

In keeping with the title of this thread... what IS at work here?  Which daemon
occupies this space!


Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:51:56 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Do the gods occupy cyberspace
In-Reply-To:  <p04330100b74fb9b70f4e@[207.54.160.224]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Stephen

> >Every
> >technological development simply makes the soul more easily
> >embodied...
>
> I'm not sure this is true as I view it. The problem I have is with feeling
> the word *embodied* to encompass the actual (and self-evident) disembodied
> aspect of cyberspace. I've mentioned before that there is a minor schism in
> analytic psychology over whether cyberspace encourages a kind of
> disincarnation or does not, simply because the lack of a sense of the body
> in interactions tends to amplify some aspects over others. (Here 'aspects'
> used to cheaply designate, for example, functions and qualities of the
> psyche.)


I used the word embodied... I have a sense that when we learn to
speak, paint & write we are able to give voice or body to our
inner processes.

This is true of us but also of humanity as a whole... the cave
paintings and then the alphabet etc enabled us to give expression
to soul.

Maybe the word embodied is not right ... give expression to is
better? Expression re-creates and extends our of sense of body -
and yes, various media will emphasise various "aspects"

The article by Cliff Bostock also mentions these themes:

"It is Aphrodite's touch that ensouls . And so it is not the
purely sexual that is significant in this consideration, but that
the erotic, as image-production, is erupting and birthing itself
in cyberspace. Thus it is not that cyberspace disembodies us.
Instead, it gives rise to a new imaginal body: the cyberbody, as
erotic as our physical bodies."


Walter

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:47:58 -0000
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         linda oulton <flamingleaf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Do the gods occupy cyberspace
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

WALTER,
---------------------------------
its like past and futur are coinciding

the past, a perfect image encapsulated
in a crystal clear image
a fantasy picture painted beautiful
by a hand which strokes
to the rhythms of the heart and soul

the futur
a picture not painted
a theory not understood
connections not made
an uncertainty as the gapping wound bleeds

its like past and futur coincide
and like all great universal collisions
the crystal is broken

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