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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:56:58 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Shifting Listserver
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Aldon, all

Re: [P] (fwd) 10 day reminder - EASE-HOME
Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:55:07 -0800

>    I look forward to seeing this list move to Yahoo
> Groups.  I am on about a dozen lists there right now
> and I like the functionality they provide.

I will initially just make it as much the same as this as possible.  No ads
and no new features. But it is good to have the possibility there.

I will also find a way of having our archives available.
I am still aiming at May.

Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:57:15 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Soul & Devil?
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Sheryl, all,

Re: [P] The idea of a group
Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:46:18 EST

Sheryl, a sigh of relief as I read your post. What a  statement about this
group:

> But as I wrote that, I'm also aware of another underlinging thread in my
> psyche of Psyber-L that was, is and always will be a group that I am a part
> of, more so than any other Group, cyber or f2f, in my life.

This is true for me too.  It is a thread to my psyche - you called it a life
line to your psyche - is a thread thin? Perhaps but very important.  To have
you say these things mirrors that in me, and i need? - love having it
mirrored!

> I would be happy to see more engagement now, too, but
> the silence is also comfortable.

Yes.

My lack of posts is not because this gp is off my radar... far from it.  I
have seen 5 unread posts sitting there for most of the week.

I feel this week like my work is a tetris game, and he blocks are stacking
up and speeding up, and I need to be very focussed to survive.  Our work in
GroupSense is sometimes like a Monty Python sketch. I the technicians and
administrators are stressed and blaming the consultants.  The managers and
the CEO are always in meetings.  The shareholders are tetchy, and the
marketing and sales people are promising more than the system can deliver,
the technical writers are behind schedule.  All these roles are played by
the two of us!

At the same time there is some grief as I turn away psychotherapy clients,
so I can do this work. I fear I may be moving from the psyche as we develop
business strategy.

I wonder who I am, and what Psybernet is. With these thoughts in mind I
yearn to read the posts here, and do what i am doing now!  But the blocks
keep coming, they need turning and they need slotting in!

I have a book here called From Couch to Corporation - Becoming a successful
Corporate Therapist by Iris Martin - I have not had the time to read it!

~

That was me...

Sheryl, what a process you have been through! Working for the devil! How are
you doing now with your exit from that "work"  are you finding new paths?

~

I notice another common thread with you Sheryl... I mentioned I feared I
might loose the sense of being with the psyche. You mentioned Devil. There
is a continuum here, Soul & Devil.

The thing that being a psychotherapist gives me (gave?) me was the 5 to 8
hours of meditation a day. It is quite an experience to be in the moment,
with my mind focussed on another person as well as registering every shift
in my own state and bringing that to the connecting point with the client.

Is that soulful? Is it in contrast to filling the whiteboard with a diagram
of a strategy for working with a large corporate? Both soulful? Or neither,
depending on me?  The latter can be energising fun and stimulating - and
somewhat stressful!  We need to work to have time to make strategy, and
strategy to do the work.  I find stres hard to relate to soul.


Walter




______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:59:12 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Chat?
In-Reply-To:  <20010226155507.6324.qmail@web2106.mail.yahoo.com>
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Aldon, all

  Re: [P] (fwd) 10 day reminder - EASE-HOME
  Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:55:07 -0800


> The other groups I am part of
> have talked about having such a chat, but it has never
> happened.  I am curious about the level of interest
> for such a chat here.

I am sorry to say i have little inclination for it.  It means i need to
"schedule time" - one thing about asynch is that I can do this in my time!
Also it is too fast for me!

Perhaps i need to develop the mindset for it.  Occasionally i have chatted
with my son Josh, that was OK.

If it was really active, and I stumbled into it that might be ok. I do have
the Yahoo Messenger - have never used it - ID = walterl .  Perhaps i should
leave it on for a while...


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:06:13 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
In-Reply-To:  <001c01c0a1e5$5a8014e0$2c0e1ed0@default>
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Nancy

Congratulations with your poems.

>   In the meantime I just got a foretaste in the newest Frogpond XXLV:I (from
> Haiku Society of America)  Thought you'all might be interested in a few

I like them, and the links to the countries of origin does make a difference
- helps to evoke an image more clearly.

Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:27:15 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L is a starting point for depth psychological work on
              the Net
In-Reply-To:  <20010226165154.1341.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
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Aldon,

I liked hearing more about you and also am looking at your probe.

I like thinking of what you wrote there as a probe into the noosphere.

> "There was a child went forth every day,
> and the first object he look'd upon, that object he
> became."
>
> She then says, "We come to see ourselves differently
> as we catch sight of our images in the mirror of the
> machine."
>
> So, how does this impact the soul?  Are we becoming
> the objects we are seeing reflected back through the
> internet?  Does our joining a list like this somehow
> effect the design of our souls?  I recall going to
> Group Relations conferences and becoming very aware of
> the effect that being part of a group has on my soul.
> Is it the same or different online?  Is it amplified
> because of a lack of visual cues allowing more space
> for projection?  Or is it dampened by this lack of
> cues?
>
> Personally, I think my interaction with this list has
> shaped me and I am pleased.  I am not sure I
> understand the nature of this but I find it
> interesting to reflect on.
>
> I look forward to reflections from others.

I look forward to more.  Here is one comment for now:

~

Aldon, your text above, is in green courier text on my screen.  It is green
because it is quoted, and i have set quoted text to green.  My text is dark
red.

We see the same thing differently!

I often download stuff onto my Palm, even posts from here, i like to read
them over lunch. Some websites have buttons for print and PDA view.  They
can generate different styles around the same content.

I also filter almost everything I get on the net, I have a music station on
echo.com called no-surprises - that is fun, I hear music I rate. (I yearn
for a better computer...)

The direction I'm probing... I create what i see! How does that sit with:

> Are we becoming the objects we are seeing reflected
> back through the internet?

If so there is an infinite loop, like two telephones with call diversion set
to divert to each other!

I create what I see and what I see creates me.

How does that tie in with this group?


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:55:28 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: green text.
In-Reply-To:  <uv90at81c7gk10qpoi2o0o9ur5aeuv97p4@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Walter's response hit a lot of different buttons for
me and I will respond with a collection of somewhat
related thoughts.

Walter writes: "Aldon, your text above, is in green
courier text on my screen.  It is green because it is
quoted, and i have set quoted text to green.  My text
is dark red.
We see the same thing differently!"

So often when I speak with people about designing
websites, I encourage them to think about how the
website will look based on the equipment that the user
has.  Is the screen 640x480 or 1620x1200?  Do they
support Java etc.  Yet I forget that the same can
apply to email.  Currently, all the email from the
Psyber lists appears black on white for me, with a
Yahoo Mail menu against a light blue background off to
the side.

How does this affect things?  I don't know.  But I
imagine the experience Walter has must be somewhat
different.  I imagine that anyone who sees my text in
Magenta gets yet another view.

One option would be for me to send my text in HTML to
try and force people to see my words a certain way.  I
am on a mailing list of net.artists, many of whom hate
HTML formatted email.  Of course, the growing trend in
HTML is to use style sheets so the content comes from
a content provider, and the style from a style
provider (which could be the end user).

Walter goes on to talk about the infinite loop: " I
create what I see and what I see creates me."  Yeah,
that is an important part of the whole equation.  How
does the feedback fit in.  The other day, I was
playing with my home network.  I set up an audio chat
between my computer and the laptop my daughter was
using.  We were in the same room.  I said "HELLO"
which came out of her computer a few moments later, a
little more quietly.  Now her computer was in the same
room as mine, so the sound from her computer got
picked up by my computer and sent back to hers again.
A feedback loop.  There was enough delay and
degradation of signal that it sounded very much like
an echo off of a mountain top:
HELLO...hello...h..lo....o

and so here, we get similar echos.  I quoted James
Joyce, adding a little bit of my own distortions..
Walter quoted the quote and some of my distortions
back...with his distortions added.  Now, I am quoting
his comments back, dropping out the quote from James
and my original comments.  Feedback...An echo..."I
create what I see and what I see creates me."

and all of this through our filters...  I hear in
Walter's comments what I want to hear.  I hear
comments about my probe being interesting.  I like
hearing that, and I let it create some of who I am.  I
am a person that posts interesting messages.  If
someone else on the lists think I am being pompous and
posts a comment to that effect, I may not hear that as
well...

and I guess this is no different than any other form
of communication...other than the lack non-verbal cues
and the ability to replay things...

What about chat?  Well, probably the same thing
applies, shortening the time between echos, but making
it harder to connect.  Other mailing lists I've been
on have had similar experiences.  Chats don't work as
well with a geographically disperse group.  Yet I
leave my screen on so people can try to chat with me.
(ahynes1 on Yahoo!, ahynes1 and ahynes2 on AOL,
depending on which machine I am on,
ahynes1@hotmail.com for Microsoft)

I should probably wind this up, but I feel like I am
just getting going....

A metaphor that I like to play with, is viewing groups
and the individuals in them as neural networks.  A
group (or neural network) is the combination of all of
the individuals, and then a something more.  Neural
networks (or groups) can recognize patters, that any
one cell ( or individual ) can't.  Their interaction
with stimuli change the cells ( or individuals ) and
hence change the network.  Sometimes the interaction
causes a cell to change itself, sometimes the
interaction causes the cell to be changed by data from
another cell.  Feedback loops in neural networks.

Anyway.  Enough rambling right now.  Maybe I'll send
an email in HTML later on and see how it is received.
Maybe I'll get an email telling me I am being pompous
and I'll delete it.  Maybe I'll get an email that
resonates with these comments and I'll refine my
thinking.

Kind Regards,
Aldon

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:00:24 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter, I had 2nd thoughts (always seem to...as if nothing spontaneous can
be 'right'.  Shades of ancestral animi!) after I posted the ku from
Frogpond, asking myself,  'Now, what does that have to do with Psyche in
Psyberspace?'.  These are the relatively undeveloped images I got back:
  1) There is something historically similar between 'posts' and haiku.
Jottings of 'a moment' conveyed in minimal worlds.
   2) The speed may be different now with psyberspace ...yet not always as
the post receiver may have been 'on vacation' one way or another. (Also I
belong to a couple of haiku lists.  On one it seems 'forever' before
contests are entered and results posted.)
   3) The cartoon B.C. where the protagonist sometimes communicates by ocean
bottle with some 'disembodied' correspondent he may likely never see.
   4) I write haiku for balance because I am a 'falling off the chart'
introverted intuitive.  It helps me to attend to the sensational moment, or
as Jungian analyst Alice O. Howell (on another list) reminds "attend the
sacred in the commonplace".  Probably most of us here are intuitives, so
this little exercise may not be out of place.

  And now:
  5) Walter since you mentioned liking to read Psyber-L posts on your
palmster, next time you 'invite us to lunch' tell us what we are having. <g>

   Best, Nancy
    Perhaps in some sense the Psyche has always been 'in Csyberspace'.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Logeman" <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [P] 'Round the world in haiku


> Nancy
>
> Congratulations with your poems.
>
> >   In the meantime I just got a foretaste in the newest Frogpond XXLV:I
(from
> > Haiku Society of America)  Thought you'all might be interested in a few
>
> I like them, and the links to the countries of origin does make a
difference
> - helps to evoke an image more clearly.
>
> Walter
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:37:23 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Charles Cameron <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nancy wrote:

>   5) Walter since you mentioned liking to read Psyber-L posts on your
> palmster, next time you 'invite us to lunch' tell us what we are having.
<g>

Nice one.

Eggs and bacon now
read this post of yours, Nancy,
sipping their coffee.

--
Charles
Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
*
Rheingold Associates
http://www.rheingold.com/associates

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:53:00 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Cameron" <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [P] 'Round the world in haiku


Dang, Charles,  you folk in the North and West (not quite sure where you are
now) are always ahead of us 'down her'.  'We ain't taught our eggs and bacon
to read Or sip coffee yit.  Gits in the way of their grits!
  Best, Nancy

> Nancy wrote:
>
> >   5) Walter since you mentioned liking to read Psyber-L posts on your
> > palmster, next time you 'invite us to lunch' tell us what we are having.
> <g>
>
> Nice one.
>
> Eggs and bacon now
> read this post of yours, Nancy,
> sipping their coffee.
>
> --
> Charles
> Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
> *
> Rheingold Associates
> http://www.rheingold.com/associates
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:08:45 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Off into the hills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi PsyberLLers

I am off tomorrow for 4-7 days tramping.  I am looking forward to
it.  I am more or less going where Kate & i went over the summer,
but adding in a high pass that we did not do.

Just been surfing to find this picture of where i am headed!

<http://www.vuwtc.org.nz/photo_gallery/1999_photocomp/june_nelson.jpg>

There is no doubt i'll be thinking psyber thoughts

See you when i get back!


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
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here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:46:52 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

cooled by the shade
she complains of its shape
olive tree

Nancy

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:02:46 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      (fwd) Personality Online Cybrary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

I am forwarding this here, as i thought Rob may be be able to
pass it on to people who know more in theis area, but it may be
of interest to others too.

Walter

~~~


Forwarded from <walter@psybernet.co.nz>,
a post from "Jan Nickerson" <jannickerson@mediaone.net>, dated
Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:21:22 -0500,
with the subject "Personality Online Cybrary":

~~~

Dear Walter,

Lorraine King referred me to you, as a psychologist doing work
with personality type and roles online.

I wonder with your interests in facilitation and online
communities, if you've come across folks looking at a question
that several colleagues and I are exploring: how do personality
preferences correlate with different collaborative environments,
structures, processes and tools online.  For
example, which features do extraverts prefer? and which do
intraverts prefer?  Which tools might a facilitator or online
community designer offer to engage practical thinkers?
theoretical thinkers?

I'm working with a team of online facilitators to build a cybrary
to share information on how designers and facilitators can
optimize collaboration and learning online, by correlating
personality preferences to different tools, processes and
environments online.   If funded, subsequent phases of this
project could initiate research in a number of various
personality typologies.

We anticipate such benefits as enabling a community designer or
facilitator to:
1) anticipate personality type (based on universe from which
members come or based on polling)
2) select structures, processes and tools that would be most
conducive to that community
Thus enhancing the experience and learning of participants

And enabling participants to
1) be comfortable in accessing structures which complement their
style
2) grow, by accessing structures which develop their style

Would you happen to know of any research, articles,
organizations, people or websites addressing how personality
preferences  might correlate with collaborative environments,
processes and tools online?   Should you have relevant articles
or URLs to share, we'll gladly post them in our cybrary
which will be made available to others, primarily online
facilitators and community designers.

We'd be happy to share our cybrary with you, should that be of
interest to you.   Just let us know.

Collaboratively,

Jan Nickerson
508-358-7146
Personality Online Community
Project: - Online Facilitation Course
http://www.communityzero.com/personalityonline

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