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To: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:10:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Janell Adair <jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello Anyone there??


    I just got a new PC and I'm not sure if any messages are going through
because I haven't had any since 1/21/01, right after I got the new PC.

  Let me know if anyone on Psyber-L gets this.

    Thanks Janell Adair



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Logeman" <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [P] Welcome Linda Landert


> linda
>
> Hi there,
>
> > I am here, listening, exploring this new to me list and trying to figure
out
> > how to get emails from the list
>
> There have not been any in the last day or so.  However your one
> just got here fine.  You will see this in the bottom of every
> email:
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> > here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
> If you go there you can read it all on the Web.  It involves
> setting up a password.  Once you have done that you can access it
> any time or place.
>
>
> Walter
>
>
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:08:46 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Janell F. Adair" <jfadair9@PHILLY.INFI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello Anyone there??


    I just got a new PC and I'm not sure if any messages are going through
because I haven't had any since 1/21/01, right after I got the new PC.

  Let me know if anyone on Psyber-L gets this.

    Thanks Janell Adair


-- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Logeman" <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: Welcome Linda Landert


> linda
>
> Hi there,
>
> > I am here, listening, exploring this new to me list and trying to figure
out
> > how to get emails from the list
>
> There have not been any in the last day or so.  However your one
> just got here fine.  You will see this in the bottom of every
> email:
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> > here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
> If you go there you can read it all on the Web.  It involves
> setting up a password.  Once you have done that you can access it
> any time or place.
>
>
> Walter
>
>
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 2001 04:46:18 -0000
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         linda oulton <flamingleaf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

message received at my end.
Linda
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:25:59 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
In-Reply-To:  <F311rNzjpD5gomv64PA0000f3ea@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

linda, Janell, all

> message received at my end.

Yes fine here too, good to see even a "test" post.

Life here is very different for me this year.

I have moved to doing online work professionally, instead of as a side line
interest, it slows me down here in Psyber-l, but this place is never far from my
mind.

I am hosting a group with 45 people learning to do online work mostly for the
fist time.  Doctors about to do postgraduate work via the net.

Phew!

It is not exactly "Psyberspace" however, it does lead me to think about and
experience the phenomena of the medium, and to *feel* both the joys and the
frustrations as people begin to interact virtually.

What a pleasant, and reflective corner it is here.

Love to all,

Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:18:54 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

  Hello Linda, Janell, Walter, all,
    Glad to see the silence broken
     Hope the new work is going well, Walter, (despite the 'fist'?
Phew...tension?)
       Blessings,  Nancy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Logeman" <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [P] Welcome Linda Landert


> linda, Janell, all
>
> > message received at my end.
>
> Yes fine here too, good to see even a "test" post.
>
> Life here is very different for me this year.
>
> I have moved to doing online work professionally, instead of as a side
line
> interest, it slows me down here in Psyber-l, but this place is never far
from my
> mind.
>
> I am hosting a group with 45 people learning to do online work mostly for
the
> fist time.  Doctors about to do postgraduate work via the net.
>
> Phew!
>
> It is not exactly "Psyberspace" however, it does lead me to think about
and
> experience the phenomena of the medium, and to *feel* both the joys and
the
> frustrations as people begin to interact virtually.
>
> What a pleasant, and reflective corner it is here.
>
> Love to all,
>
> Walter
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:11:22 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Robert_G=2E_Longpr=E9=22?=
              <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
In-Reply-To:  <00c801c09887$2ea8df80$265679a5@janellad>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hello Janell, Linda, and all,

>Hello Anyone there??
>
>
>     I just got a new PC and I'm not sure if any messages are going through
>because I haven't had any since 1/21/01, right after I got the new PC.
>
>   Let me know if anyone on Psyber-L gets this.

The list has been quiet.  I have been a active participant in maintaining
this quietness.  Life has its way of filling my waking hours this year.  I
have not done much on-line for a long time, even on my own list JUNG-L.  Be
assured that your post got through.

Robert

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:14:16 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
In-Reply-To:  <5.0.2.1.0.20010217100910.009d3070@mailhost.sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It is interesting, there has been a discussion about
quietness on another list I am on.   Yes, I am here
also, and a bit quiet.

Aldon


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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:19:36 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Robert_G=2E_Longpr=E9=22?=
              <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Linda Landert
In-Reply-To:  <qcns8t89gov6tq4e90chg7jkrapse5m94v@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Walter,

>Life here is very different for me this year.
>
>I have moved to doing online work professionally, instead of as a side line
>interest, it slows me down here in Psyber-l, but this place is never far
>from my
>mind.

I have to echo that statement of this being a very different year with my
moving to a new community and a new school where I am enjoying being
principal.  Without the new principalship, just the move itself and what
that entails in terms of communities is enough to disrupt the natural
tendency to be present here in cyberspace.

Like yourself, I have been doing on-line work via my website:

http://www/counselling.sk.ca

As well, I am engaged in some consulting work with regards to both Internet
use and software use with a bit of web page design thrown in for good measure.

>I am hosting a group with 45 people learning to do online work mostly for the
>fist time.  Doctors about to do postgraduate work via the net.

I'd like to hear more about this.

cheers, Robert

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:45:35 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <20010217161416.12040.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

All,

Aldon, you wrote:
> It is interesting, there has been a discussion about
> quietness on another list I am on.   Yes, I am here
> also, and a bit quiet.

Robert, you wrote about your quietness here, and also asked:

> >I am hosting a group with 45 people learning to do online work mostly for the
> >fist time.  Doctors about to do postgraduate work via the net.
>
> I'd like to hear more about this.

Connecting with you and the others here now makes me think of just how much a
group this is even in the quiet.  We have discussed "silence" here many times,
and i think i have looked at it form all angles, but it is nice to have it
called quietness!  I prefer quiet to silence, ha!  What a distinction.

To give you a sense of what i have been doing:  I work with Dan in GroupSense,
http://www.groupsense.co.nz and we are building a business.  We employ our first
staff member (junior and part time) this week.  I am working among other things
with the NCTD courses... http://www.nctd.org.net - see training programs.

We do all the training groups in Yahoo Groups - they serve our requirements of
having

password protected:
- a mailing list - accessible offline and push technology.
- a file area - for shared files

they are also ubiquitous and thus the skills people learn will be transferable
to their own initiatives.

I have a course going to train people in the participation skills in online
groups - a pilot, specific to NCTD (so please do not distribute at this point)

See course outline:

http://www.groupsense.co.nz/participate-nctd/course-outline.html

You can see i have been hard at work... I am providing the "resources" on the
fly, as I help out - over doing it! - in the learning group. The resources are
all in first draft, they also link to older GroupSense resources, some getting
out of date. Comments and corrections appreciated.

I will be piloting a course like this more widely later this year, and offering
it on the Net as well for a fee.

~~~

I tend to write more than "how to" documents... though who knows, they may need
to be trimmed to just that.

Here is one I was thinking about with respect to "quietness".

http://www.groupsense.co.nz/resources/filtering.html

What is a group?  It is not the atoms - that is what i mention in my "resource"
but it is *not* even the # of posts. It is all imaginal.

~~~

I enjoy the work, the enterprising nature of it, and also the sense of "joining"
with organisations.  It is not unlike being with psychotherapy clients... the
contours of the soul emerge in the relationship.  i have a sense of the
organisational soul being present as i work with these groups.

Good to be here again...

Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:26:48 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <tp0u8ts5vjfat0mv50jn5c69tqpt1u8p4s@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, all,

We've spent a lot of times since the end of the first dream group wondering
how good the silence is. ...over a year.

***

My own opinion is: the group's ability to sustain threads is inconsistent
and weighted toward an inability to sustain most threads. And, Walter, the
character of your own participation has become very diffuse, while,
crucially, nobody takes up the slack.

(I point this out as an observer over five years.)

***

But (!), Walter, this actually shocks me:

"An email group is in our imagination, the place is created with words. The
group's name has to do the work done by many atoms in a physical group.

Yet those atoms are not the group. All groups have their reality in the
imagination. Words, symbols and icons evoke the imagination. The use of
symbols and words make the group what it is."

My goodness, everything we know about groups goes beyond such a banal,
circular statement!

***

"The use of symbols and words make the group what it is."

How about adding to this bare formulation the richness of what is implicit
in it?

***

The huge conundrum I feel about this concerns what happens when the group
is made into only its words and symbols.

Walter, I've long wondered if you are spread so thin and so easily
distracted by the great adventures you are on, engaged with explorer-like,
that the very small humanness and fit-full life here on Psyber-L has fallen
beneath your radar.

Of course I say this with great affection! (We've explored so much
together.)

Yet, it seems clear there is a significant difference between thriving and
writhing. Called into possible question is what your role is here today
Walter, and what roles might be cast to help inspire the group.

regards to all,

Stephen

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:14:22 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <tp0u8ts5vjfat0mv50jn5c69tqpt1u8p4s@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I too, like the idea of quietness as opposed to
silence.  While I am being quiet online, the ideas and
experiences of the group continue to percolate within
me.  It also sounds like there has been quite a bit
brewing with Walter, and I was very excited to read
his posting.  I look forward to exploring the links he
has posted.

I wish my quietness was as productive.  Instead, it
seems to be mostly a processing of anxiety.  When will
I find my next job?  This anxiety is amplified by the
one place where my life has been very productive.  My
wife and I are expecting a child.  We are very early
in the process, but are both very excited.

So it seems as if there is a bit of quietness and
struggling to give birth to new things going on.
Things maybe quiet, but they are also exciting.

Aldon


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:35:20 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <p04330102b6b6d7ddd2e1@[207.54.160.163]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen

You ar right...

> My own opinion is: the group's ability to sustain threads is inconsistent
> and weighted toward an inability to sustain most threads. And, Walter, the
> character of your own participation has become very diffuse, while,
> crucially, nobody takes up the slack.

... and yet here we are in such a slack time, with some major
personal events and comments in this group.  Anita's next trip
(even though she is unsubbed tight now.) Judith's health journey,
Robert's new job, Nancy is back after her virus, Rob has been
sharing his spiritual Journey, Aldon is having a baby, is seeking
work, is writing a book. Linda has arrived from the dream
group... I have an image of a journey through the depths to be
here... I have been busy but I report back here...

quiet, but we still do it.

~~~

> But (!), Walter, this actually shocks me:

You are shocked... I feel anxiety at your response... your word
"banal" - ouch!  AND I asked and got feedback, and need and want
it!  Thanks - I appreciate you honest response.

What can i say?

> "The use of symbols and words make the group what it is."
>
> How about adding to this bare formulation the richness of what is implicit
> in it?

I will add the *people* --- the thing is that most of the time am
writing that online work is about PEOPLE, not technology or
symbols.

The excerpt is from and instruction resource, from a warm-up to
people putting the posts into a folder with the group's name. I
watch people not do that, and the sense of group is lost... the
"idea of a group" is not formed, there are only scattered random
emails.

I am defensive, but that is the context, the purpose for that
moment.  A paragraph to create the desire to attend to the
symbols... with a higher purpose in mind.  I will have a go at
writing in that higher purpose.

> ***

> The huge conundrum I feel about this concerns what happens when the group
> is made into only its words and symbols.

Please say more... a group clearly is more, but it is easy to
confuse with physical meetings, with actual presence of the body.

~~~

> Walter, I've long wondered if you are spread so thin and so easily
> distracted by the great adventures you are on, engaged with explorer-like,
> that the very small humanness and fit-full life here on Psyber-L has fallen
> beneath your radar.

I have been thinly spread... last year was too hard.  I worked
two jobs really and Psyber-L dropped... not below the radar, as i
always see it there, and feel it there. It dropped below what i
had time for.

The other side of that is that I don't want to be the hub, so
there is no wheel without me.  At least not all the time.

> Of course I say this with great affection! (We've explored so much
> together.)

Yes.  I appreciate you saying that.

> Yet, it seems clear there is a significant difference between thriving and
> writhing. Called into possible question is what your role is here today
> Walter, and what roles might be cast to help inspire the group.

What roles might be cast... good point... Am I possessive of my
role?  Somewhat. I think i can let go something, but will also
hold something. What *is* my role?  My role is so changed, in
many ways. All this feels new... exciting too.

Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:29:04 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <unl99tksn01rrd3duq67a7e5joaick3rra@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As I read the dialog between Walter and Stephen, it
feels to me like I am a guest at Walter's house, that
Walter and Stephen are new friends of mine, and are
old friends of one another.  It feels like they are
arguing over something I don't really understand, and
I wonder if there are subtexts that I don't see.  I
wonder if Walter and Stephen are aware of these
subtexts.

My mind then wanders to "Who's afraid of Virginia
Woolf?", except instead of Virginia Woolf, it is Carl
Jung.

Then my mind wanders back to being a good guest, and I
return to my quiet chit chat.

Aldon

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:16:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <20010222132904.15753.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Aldon, all,

Aldon, if there is a subtext to Walter and my dialogue right now, it's not
on my radar screen. on the other hand, one long evolving context for this
dialogue is our shared commitment to this list, Psyber-L.

Who's Afraid of Carl Jung? That's funny; no idea what it could mean.

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:39:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <unl99tksn01rrd3duq67a7e5joaick3rra@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, all,

At times in the past many participants have responded to the queries, 'Why
are you here? / What are your expectations?'.

I don't know what the most powerful questions are -which could be asked-
about Psyber-L. I do believe those questions may be worth asking!

***

>quiet, but we still do it.

One question might be: *what do we still do?"

There is no doubt that our lives continue and so does this list. I was just
wondering what the promise of the situation is...

***

Walter, you write,

>> "The use of symbols and words make the group what it is."

>I will add the *people* --- the thing is that most of the time am
>writing that online work is about PEOPLE, not technology or
>symbols.

So, what would you surmise from the symbols and words in this group? Do you
have the time to continue to work with our group?

***

You write,

>The other side of that is that I don't want to be the hub, so
>there is no wheel without me.  At least not all the time.

>What roles might be cast... good point... Am I possessive of my
>role?  Somewhat. I think i can let go something, but will also
>hold something. What *is* my role?  My role is so changed, in
>many ways. All this feels new... exciting too.

One question I would like to ask you Walter is: what is different about the
purpose *for you, and focused in some way on the meeting of your own needs*
of Psyber-L between 1995-96 and now?

'No hub, no wheel'. Now there is a symbol! It comes up again: previously
perspected in the Circle of Connections Game (June-July 2000) that took the
form of a wheel without a hub. (Review: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/circle/
L:psyber P:circle) Reminder: how to stay? And, what you contributed to the
game,

*That we continue rejuvenation into something older and more mature.*

So, my own powerful question, (one possibility,) is: What are the ways
Psyber-L might commence rejuvenating itself? And: does Psyber-L need a hub,
(read: persons behind the words and symbols!) to do so?

***

Who's afraid to post?


best to all,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:21:21 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <p04330101b6bc2fa46dbd@[207.54.160.82]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

> I don't know what the most powerful questions are -which could be asked-
> about Psyber-L. I do believe those questions may be worth asking!

You ask some good questions!  I am challenged by them in a
positive sense and feel connected to you as you ask these things.

> ***
>
> >quiet, but we still do it.
>
> One question might be: *what do we still do?"
>
> There is no doubt that our lives continue and so does this list. I was just
> wondering what the promise of the situation is...

There promise, and there is also quiet... and perhaps the
opposite of promise, a sort of gloom that we are not more active
as a group.

When I said "We still do it" I wanted to stay with the "what is"
- and listed what I saw as personal connections - without comment
about if we need more or less of this.  I have a fear that I, we,
may discount people who write so openly when we say it is silent
or quiet, which is only a relative thing.  The *what we still do*
is to share a few things occasionally.

I am ready to move into what is promised now...

> So, what would you surmise from the symbols and words in this group?

I am not sure what you are asking... but will offer some
thoughts:

There are two levels I think:

1.  The documentation, structures, which define the group.
    I'd like to address that later in a separate post,
    where i look at my role too. I will go back to the roots
    to answer this.

2.  The symbols and words right now...  If I look
    at the headings:

 The idea of a group
 Welcome Linda Landert
 Virtual community on /
 Spiritual type, and I never forgot
 Reconnecting
 Briefly connected
 Global Greetings
 xmas greetings

There is a message in there... connection, warmth, community,
spirituality, and endurance over time

So what am i saying?  It is not just that these are words from
this group, but also words in a particular place, the "Subject"
line, which gives them a status.  Words in a symbolic place...
perhaps unconsciously put there and if so carrying more of the
psyche as a result.

~~~

Enough for now... more later on:

> Do you
> have the time to continue to work with our group?

> 'No hub, no wheel'

> What are the ways
> Psyber-L might commence rejuvenating itself?

> And: does Psyber-L need a hub,
> (read: persons behind the words and symbols!) to do so?

> Who's afraid to post?

Good questions...

Your answers too?


Warm wishes,

Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Feb 2001 03:49:47 -0000
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         linda oulton <flamingleaf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>>There is no doubt that our lives continue and so does this list. .....

I am not so sure.

I have no connection to the people on the list being very new here. But I
sense in the few posts that have been written, an apathy, a withdrawal from
communication. No real need or pressure to express oneself

I do not feel the same dynamics that a face to face group would have. There
is much room here for projection and reflections.

when the leadership changes it's role, then the original vision very often
is lost/ the original goals and reasons for existing may need to be changed
to reflect the changing circumstances

If this list has been important to people here, it may be time to reevaluate
your reasons for being here NOW. how you want to be here. what you want to
be or do here. all NOW in the present tense.

regards
linda






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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:39:49 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
In-Reply-To:  <F220W8UKZMp1fcl47v800016d30@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear linda,

Thanks for your observation.

> when the leadership changes it's role, then the original vision very often
> is lost/ the original goals and reasons for existing may need to be changed
> to reflect the changing circumstances

I think we are at that phase. I will be writing about my role in
this, and how I, and it are changing.

> If this list has been important to people here, it may be time to reevaluate
> your reasons for being here NOW. how you want to be here. what you want to
> be or do here. all NOW in the present tense.

Yes.  I hope there are responses to your question, however it
would be good to clarify Vision first, and leadership too.

There are statements about the purpose of this group at:
http://www.psybernet.co.nz/psyber-l.htm


I definitely want to be in a group

1.  That "explores the psyche in cyberspace"

2.  That does so experientially - ie be "being here now" as
opposed to theorising.

3.  That has continuity with the people I have come to know
and... love, feel connected with.

4.  Has continuity with these archives... this group.


I have a commitments to all of these things, as a custodian of
sorts.  Whatever rejuvenation occurs, even new groups, links to
our history and current life will be honoured.


How can we harness the "promise" of the current state of play

Some new leadership... new promotion... new ideas...


Walter







______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:52:48 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Psyber-L is a starting point for depth psychological work on the
              Net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

All,

This is a line from the description of this group:

"Psyber-L is a starting point for depth psychological work on the
net"

I am now working as a consultant to organisations to make sense
of their groups and to design online groups accordingly.  This
happens in "KM" knowledge management, communities of practice,
and in eLearning.

To me this is the biggest depth psychological project i have been
involved with to date.

It is a huge change of professional roles for me, but not one
where i have stopped working with the psyche.

It is easy to think of this work as technical or as OD
"organisational development", as social skills, or communication
skills.  It involves all of them.  But how does this impact the
soul?  I think it does.  I have a sense of a huge leap, that is
happening as we see groups grasp their virtual life.

I have a sense of Designing for the soul somehow.

I think you do that too Stephen and Judith, so we have a potent
meeting area.

I would love comment on this from peers...


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:03:00 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      (fwd) 10 day reminder - EASE-HOME
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

I have contacted Jenni and renewed.  I found myself a little hesitant, as it
is now around $60 for 3 months.

During these three months I will move the group over to Yahoo Groups.  It
will take no effort on the part of the members.  I will put text files of
the group on the web, although there are some other options for having them
in a free secure place.

The change of list server, while having some impact, I imagine, on our
psyche.  However the the membeship, and the description of the group will
remail the same.

I will give further notice about a week before any changes happen, around
mid May.


Walter.


~~~


Forwarded from walter@psybernet.co.nz,
a post from "Jeni" <jeni@lsoft.com>, dated Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:02:41 -0500,
with the subject "10 day reminder - EASE-HOME":

~~~


Dear List Owner,

      Hello.  This message is to inform you that you have 10 Days to
renew your EASE Home list. If I receive  no correspondence from
you, by the last day of the month, your list will be placed on hold
for  30 days. If you do not contact me within that period to renew ,
your list will be deleted from our servers. If you then would like the
list running again, you will have  to restart the list from scratch.
Please contact immediately, if you wish to continue your EASE-
HOME service.

Thank you, and I  look forward to hearing from you soon.


Jeni Williams
L-Soft international Inc
jeni@lsoft.com

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:55:07 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: (fwd) 10 day reminder - EASE-HOME
In-Reply-To:  <2vah9tc8p70c406klohj8a64pim8t5in79@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Walter (et al)

   I look forward to seeing this list move to Yahoo
Groups.  I am on about a dozen lists there right now
and I like the functionality they provide.
   One thing that Yahoo Groups offers is the ability
to have a group chat.  The other groups I am part of
have talked about having such a chat, but it has never
happened.  I am curious about the level of interest
for such a chat here.

Aldon
--- Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have contacted Jenni and renewed.  I found myself
> a little hesitant, as it
> is now around $60 for 3 months.
>
> During these three months I will move the group over
> to Yahoo Groups.  It
> will take no effort on the part of the members.  I
> will put text files of
> the group on the web, although there are some other
> options for having them
> in a free secure place.
>
> The change of list server, while having some impact,
> I imagine, on our
> psyche.  However the the membeship, and the
> description of the group will
> remail the same.
>
> I will give further notice about a week before any
> changes happen, around
> mid May.
>
>
> Walter.
>
>
> ~~~
>
>
> Forwarded from walter@psybernet.co.nz,
> a post from "Jeni" <jeni@lsoft.com>, dated Fri, 23
> Feb 2001 14:02:41 -0500,
> with the subject "10 day reminder - EASE-HOME":
>
> ~~~
>
>
> Dear List Owner,
>
>       Hello.  This message is to inform you that you
> have 10 Days to
> renew your EASE Home list. If I receive  no
> correspondence from
> you, by the last day of the month, your list will be
> placed on hold
> for  30 days. If you do not contact me within that
> period to renew ,
> your list will be deleted from our servers. If you
> then would like the
> list running again, you will have  to restart the
> list from scratch.
> Please contact immediately, if you wish to continue
> your EASE-
> HOME service.
>
> Thank you, and I  look forward to hearing from you
> soon.
>
>
> Jeni Williams
> L-Soft international Inc
> jeni@lsoft.com
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:46:55 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,
  I have been waiting for Walter to answer Stephen's question:

>Do you
> have the time to continue to work with our group?

N: In a sense both the question (now) and the lack of response feel to me
like something of a 'death nil (sp?)  or at least a 'list' defeating circle.
How can Walter maintain interest in a group that seems to have become
largely notable by its 'silence'?  What converse there is seems to have a
sort of waiting quality (to me).  Especially now that he (Walter) is
involved in so much else that sounds more vibrant.
  On the other hand how can we of the group feel motivated to put our whole
psyches into involvement here when the 'host, list owner etc.' seems
partially 'absent' and seemingly ambivalent?
  I've hesitated to put this all into words ever since Stephen ask and
Walter...would 'evaded' be too strong a word?  My words feel like the
creaking of a heavy door beginning to close.  On the other hand, to not
verbalize this feels like the continuation of blood rushing to my head as we
all hang upside down like the Hanged Man of the Tarot.
  I should hate to lose touch with some of you here (who are not on other
lists to which I belong).  (I think particularly of our courageous Judith as
I write this)  Even there (on other lists), my contact feels less intimate
than here.
  On a brighter note (for me at least) I have had 5 haiku accepted for
publication on the new site for the World Haiku Assoc. (no yet up).  It will
be interesting to see how the content of the form varies around the world.
   Best always,  Nancy

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:51:54 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L is a starting point for depth psychological work on
              the              Net
In-Reply-To:  <07ah9tkvl0s4f4a8rn1ac5qpqenak2drj7@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I find Walter's post very interesting.  It was
organizational development issues that lead me to this
list.  Let me backtrack for a few minutes, and then
get back to the issues.

I am, first and foremost, a technologist.  I've worked
with computers since the 60s and have been on the
internet since the early 80s.  I have almost no
training groups, Jung etc.  Several years ago, I was
working for a large organization with some significant
issues.  I hired an organizational consultant to help
me navigate the political waters.  She was trained in
the Tavistock tradition, and I started reading about
Wilfred Bion and attending Group Relations
conferences.

This has lead me to a special interest group
interaction online.  I have almost no experience with
Jung and I stumbled across this list as another forum
to explore online interaction from a psychologically
aware viewpoint.

All of this said, what I am about to say might not
make a lot of sense and if it doesn't, I apologize.
Hopefully, whether it makes sense or not, it will
provide food for thought.

In her book _Life on the Screen_, Sherry Turkle
discusses the issues of identity in the age of the
internet from a post modernist perception.  I am about
as much of a post-modernist as I am of a Jungian, so I
am likely to do damage to some of her comments as
well.

The introduction starts with a line from Walt Wiltman:
"There was a child went forth every day,
and the first object he look'd upon, that object he
became."

She then says, "We come to see ourselves differently
as we catch sight of our images in the mirror of the
machine."

So, how does this impact the soul?  Are we becoming
the objects we are seeing reflected back through the
internet?  Does our joining a list like this somehow
effect the design of our souls?  I recall going to
Group Relations conferences and becoming very aware of
the effect that being part of a group has on my soul.
Is it the same or different online?  Is it amplified
because of a lack of visual cues allowing more space
for projection?  Or is it dampened by this lack of
cues?

Personally, I think my interaction with this list has
shaped me and I am pleased.  I am not sure I
understand the nature of this but I find it
interesting to reflect on.

I look forward to reflections from others.

Aldon

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:46:14 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 01-02-26 11:49:43 EST, Nancy writes:

> On a brighter note (for me at least) I have had 5 haiku accepted for
>  publication on the new site for the World Haiku Assoc. (no yet up).  It
will
>  be interesting to see how the content of the form varies around the world.

Nancy, I'm sending you many bytes of congratulations and I hope you'll send
the website when they are up!!!

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:46:16 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L is a starting point for depth psychological work on
              the     ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 01-02-26 11:52:08 EST, you write:

> Personally, I think my interaction with this list has
>  shaped me and I am pleased.  I am not sure I
>  understand the nature of this but I find it
>  interesting to reflect on.
>
>  I look forward to reflections from others.
>
>  Aldon

Wow, Aldon, this was a wonderful post you wrote, experiential to the core, in
Sheryl thinking "Something happens somehow, I'm not sure how or even what,
but it does".

I guess this is a "me too" post but I wanted to let you know how much I
appreciated your post.

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:46:18 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The idea of a group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello fellow Psyberians

I'm in a computer limbo zone, using my old laptop (and wondering how I wrote
my entire thesis on it only a few years ago!) because my *big* computer is
down.  So, my email storage is scattered between the two computers, making
the theme of the *idea of our group* also somewhat scattered, who said what,
when, in my thinking.

But as I wrote that, I'm also aware of another underlinging thread in my
psyche of Psyber-L that was, is and always will be a group that I am a part
of, more so than any other Group, cyber or f2f, in my life.

The seeds of who each of you, who you are, ie., who I think you are, will
remain with me always, no matter what the degree of our interaction on the
listserv itself is.  I would be happy to see more engagement now, too, but
the silence is also comfortable.

To break a little of my own silence, for the past year, I have been
struggling with personal demons related to the jobs I had following my
graduation in '98.  The first, as a residential counselor was dangerous
emotionally spiritually but especially physically.  The second, which I was
so enthusiastic about (and shared with fellow Psyberians at the time) as
birth parent counselor was even more damaging, especially to my psyche,
confronting my morals, ethics, good vs. evil, wondering if I fell into
working for the devil?  After only a few months there, my questions about the
the motives of the owner, the management, lead me to quit.    Then last fall,
I felt some validation when I discovered that the owner in fact was a
disbarred attorney who opened the adoption agency after the disbarrment (in
which his defense was that 2 psych professionals declared he had a
*personality disorder*)

My attempts to re-enter into the *system* following my return to grad school
and graduation clearly left me with a whole lot more learning about life (not
to mention a pretty pathetic history to put on a resume.)

While I've struggled with my personal disengagement with so many aspects of
life this past year, as loosely associated as Psyber-L has been, it has in a
sense been a part of a lifeline back to my psyche.  It's been an opening that
has always been there, whenever I've felt myself ready to become more a part
of it.  A door that I just have to be willing to open again.  Maybe I just
did, a little bit.

Sheryl

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:19:58 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: 'Round the world in haiku
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks, Sheryl.  I will post web site when up.
  In the meantime I just got a foretaste in the newest Frogpond XXLV:I (from
Haiku Society of America)  Thought you'all might be interested in a few
which I'll 'left  margin' as posting usually distorts the original spacing
anyway:

Cauliflower in hands
A teenage girl practices
The wedding march        (Teruka Oda, Brazil)

... also the border
beyond which is night
i go through alone           (Omila, Bulgaria)

looking at the clouds
don't crave for them
they are nomads            (Satyabhushan Verma, India)


two drunks prop
each other up
to get a better punch    (Jeffrey Harpeng, NZ)

nearly blind
the old woman stoops
to pick up the sunlight     (Nola Borrell, NZ)

Pole-star wanes...
Through the nightmare-sleep
a bomber passes by.            (Bogdanka Stojanovski, Serbia)

And a drop of rain
disappears in the pond
like a distant sob.            (F. M. El Fathemy, Morocco)

  Dunno how much 'ethnic' influence you Psyberians will note.  To me it sort
of 'comes and goes', as indeed it does in English language haiku.  It is
usually the case that poetry probably reads better in whatever language it
was written.

    Best to all, Nancy


> Nancy, I'm sending you many bytes of congratulations and I hope you'll
send
> the website when they are up!!!
>
> Sheryl
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:01:17 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Necessities of life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi again Sheryl,
  Sounds like you've had a rough time with your job situations.  Just wanted
to tell you that my Jungian analyst friend had a similar experience with an
'birth counseling adoption agency'.  She started out very enthusiastic
(having herself been adopted) but became disillusioned with motives and
'business practices'.  Fortunately she was able to catch up with her
practice start-up costs, quit and make it in private practice alone.
  Hope you will soon find something more satisfying.
    Blessings,  Nancy

Sheryl wrote

> To break a little of my own silence, for the past year, I have been
> struggling with personal demons related to the jobs I had following my
> graduation in '98.  The first, as a residential counselor was dangerous
> emotionally spiritually but especially physically.  The second, which I
was
> so enthusiastic about (and shared with fellow Psyberians at the time) as
> birth parent counselor was even more damaging, especially to my psyche,
> confronting my morals, ethics, good vs. evil, wondering if I fell into
> working for the devil?  After only a few months there, my questions about
the
> the motives of the owner, the management, lead me to quit.    Then last
fall,
> I felt some validation when I discovered that the owner in fact was a
> disbarred attorney who opened the adoption agency after the disbarrment
(in
> which his defense was that 2 psych professionals declared he had a
> *personality disorder*)
>
> My attempts to re-enter into the *system* following my return to grad
school
> and graduation clearly left me with a whole lot more learning about life
(not
> to mention a pretty pathetic history to put on a resume.)
>
> While I've struggled with my personal disengagement with so many aspects
of
> life this past year, as loosely associated as Psyber-L has been, it has in
a
> sense been a part of a lifeline back to my psyche.  It's been an opening
that
> has always been there, whenever I've felt myself ready to become more a
part
> of it.  A door that I just have to be willing to open again.  Maybe I just
> did, a little bit.
>
> Sheryl
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html




