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To: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:03:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Just communication
In-Reply-To:  <nbjqsskhpe0csq5h2apajc2e0devuo70oe@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> You are so dry!  Just communication.  As I look at your site and
> lists of friends and so on, I see you entering into a vast
> network.

The network is there, but sometimes I think it's very one sided.  Not
many people return all the links that I give out.  It's like a nexus
around me that only points in one direction.

> Reminds me of this:
>
> FUNEX?
> SVFX
> FUNEM?
> SVFM
> OKM&X please.

What?

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:11:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Just communication
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I actually prefer Bacon Egg and Cheese sandwiches....

Aldon
--- Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:
>
> > You are so dry!  Just communication.  As I look at
> your site and
> > lists of friends and so on, I see you entering
> into a vast
> > network.
>
> The network is there, but sometimes I think it's
> very one sided.  Not
> many people return all the links that I give out.
> It's like a nexus
> around me that only points in one direction.
>
> > Reminds me of this:
> >
> > FUNEX?
> > SVFX
> > FUNEM?
> > SVFM
> > OKM&X please.
>
> What?
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org
> http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:24:57 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Pumpknsoul
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl,

I have added you as Pumpknsoul and removed the other address ...
ons small step in the software, but a naming ritual and a
claiming of identity in cyberspace!

Congratulations!

Looking forward to your presence!


Walter


~~~ from Pumpknsoul ~~~

Walter, PSYBERIANS...

In honor of the season, autumn, here in the US and in honor of my
need to relink with my pumpkin identification, I would like to
subscribe to PSYBER-L under this screen name.  Pumpknsoul is my
remaining link to my first identity, my first experiences, my
most intense link to my psyche in cyberspace.  It is *how* I wish
to be present in PSYBER-L.


Sheryl

______________
Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Online Group Consultant
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:18:50 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Cyber/PSYBER L'ers...

Hmmm, PSYBER L has been quiet lately, although I think it would be more
accurate to call it low post activity.  With the flurry of posts recently,
begun by Aldon, I think (welcome, Aldon, BTW!) some action was required on my
part to visit all the web sites listed.  When the posts with the web
addresses were flurrying, I did one of my put them off for now actions, but
eventually I did get around to I think almost all of them, in most cases
briefly.

So, I while I didn't post anything to PSYBER-L, I was still attentive.  Since
then, I've had some thoughts percolating.

Sharing the sites with your pictures was interesting to me.  Visiting the
pictures was interesting, too... it seemed to me that the pictures were of
people of the same generation, old hippyish, if I remember Aldon's
description correctly.  Is that sort of what PSYBER-L is mostly composed of?
I would fit into that description.

I didn't see a picture of Rob.  His URL was intriguing and eclectic but I
might be too old to really get it.  I wondered if that might be because he is
younger.

With your sharing of the sites of your pictures, is there some more need now
in PSYBER-L to get some visual identification of who is saying what?  I have
a mild curiousity about what each PSYBER-L person looks like but I don't
think it has any large impact on my perceptions of that person.  My
perceptions are based more on a sense of who that person is by what he/she
has written or shared with PSYBER-L.  You are all more like familiar,
comforting ghosts who send me messages once in awhile.

But seeing the pictures also satisfied some part of my curiousity, even if I
suspect I will still think of each of you in more ghostly terms, at least in
the near future.

Hoping you are all well :)
Sheryl

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:56:05 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <47.22cd25d.271e001a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl, Rob, all

Nice to get your post with the pumpkin name.

I am enjoying pictures and seeing people's pages with photos.  I
also grieve the pure "ghostliness" - having to rely entirely on
words, I liked the discipline of that - I mean there is value in
a haiku, we could give them more "bandwidth" by making them
longer but we have other forms for that.

So the form is changing here. There were no URLs once.  We have
them and we wont ban them :)

I'm an old hippy type. I am 56 so born in the war, which makes me
a little old for a boomer - but I am one. I caught that wave,
just. Rock music, counterculture, communes, protests, psychobable
and cyberspace all in more or less the order of my generation.

I think Rob might be an exception here - Rob how old are you, i
saw you had a birthday was it really 21?  You know I have taken
you as about 10 years younger than me till now.  How old were you
when you first came here then?

To get a real dose of pictures of who I am I will share my semi
private personal family page:  http://www.psybernet.co.nz/kwrj

Sheryl, do you have a URL?  I did see a lot of pumpkins around
this morning!

All for now,


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Online Group Consultant
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:39:39 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <47.22cd25d.271e001a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Sheryl Garner wrote:

> I didn't see a picture of Rob.  His URL was intriguing and eclectic but I
> might be too old to really get it.  I wondered if that might be because he is
> younger.

I'm not much to look at.  :-)  But it might be because I'm younger, or
it might be because a lot of the things on that site are written for a
really esoteric, "geeky" crowd.  I'm sure a that 75% of the humor is
only understood by my close friends, 50% by fellow geeks, and 25% by
everyone else.

What did you find interesting or confusing about my site?

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:01:55 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <4bepus8sd5h67s1nvcvnj369tpe9e8l70e@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> I am enjoying pictures and seeing people's pages with photos.  I
> also grieve the pure "ghostliness" - having to rely entirely on
> words, I liked the discipline of that - I mean there is value in
> a haiku, we could give them more "bandwidth" by making them
> longer but we have other forms for that.

When I first got on here, I was connected by a 2400 baud UUCP link.  As
a rule, people kept the verbiage down to a minimum.  I'm on a T1
connection, somewhere along the lines of 645 times faster, I still sort
my e-mail by size when it comes in.  Smallest letters get the quickest
replies.

> So the form is changing here. There were no URLs once.  We have
> them and we wont ban them :)

I had a web page when I first showed up on the list.  It wasn't much to
look at, but I had one.  Mostly all my efforts were e-mail based.

> I'm an old hippy type. I am 56 so born in the war, which makes me
> a little old for a boomer - but I am one. I caught that wave,
> just. Rock music, counterculture, communes, protests, psychobable
> and cyberspace all in more or less the order of my generation.

I got rock music, cyberspace, psychobabble, counterculture, protests and
communes.  It's a few years later, and a different order, but basically
the same thing.

> I think Rob might be an exception here - Rob how old are you, i
> saw you had a birthday was it really 21?  You know I have taken
> you as about 10 years younger than me till now.  How old were you
> when you first came here then?

I'm a curmudgeon beyond my years.  I was 16 when I first arrived.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:50:00 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010181043010.19680-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Rob

> I'm a curmudgeon beyond my years.  I was 16 when I first arrived.

That is one of the wonders of cyberspace.  I had no idea you were
that young.  Consequently I mistook what was probably youth for
other aspects of your personality.

Although it might be that *unlike* in face to face - I did *not*
mistake other aspects of your personality for youth!

But was it curmudgeonery I sensed?

Not at all.


Walter



~~~



curmudgeon (kr-mjn)
n.

An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin unknown.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
curmudgeonly adj.

curmudgeonry n.


Word History: The etymology of the word curmudgeon has eluded us
for at least two centuries, although some lexicographers have
thought the solution was at hand, one to his embarrassment. When
Samuel Johnson stated in his famous dictionary of 1755 that
curmugeon is a vicious manner of pronouncing cur mchant, Fr. an
unknown correspondent, he was giving credit to an anonymous
writer for the statement that curmudgeon came from French cur,
heart, and mchant, evil. Another lexicographer, John Ash,
following in Johnson's tracks though none too carefully, gave the
etymology a bit differently in his dictionary of 1775: from the
French cur unknown, and mechant a correspondent; thus
misinterpreting Johnson's attribution as a gloss for the French.
Although its origin is unknown, curmudgeon has been around for
some time, being first recorded in a work published in 1577.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pronunciation Key
Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English
Language, Third Edition
Copyright  1996, 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


curmudgeon \Cur*mudg"eon\ (k?r-m?j"?n), n. [OE. cornmudgin, where
-mudgin is prob. from OF. muchier, mucier, F. musser to hide; of
uncertain origin; cf. OE. muchares skulking thieves, E. miche,
micher.] An avaricious, grasping fellow; a miser; a niggard; a
churl.

A gray-headed curmudgeon of a negro. --W. Irving.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary,  1996, 1998
MICRA, Inc.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


curmudgeon n : a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of
stubborn ideas
Source: WordNet  1.6,  1997 Princeton University











______________
Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Online Group Consultant
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:40:22 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob...

In a message dated 10/18/2000 8:40:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
rcarls2@UMBC.EDU writes:

> I'm not much to look at.  :-)  But it might be because I'm younger, or
>  it might be because a lot of the things on that site are written for a
>  really esoteric, "geeky" crowd.  I'm sure a that 75% of the humor is
>  only understood by my close friends, 50% by fellow geeks, and 25% by
>  everyone else.
>
>  What did you find interesting or confusing about my site?
>

I doubt the *not much to look at* comment, but as I said in my last post,
most everybody here is sort of a ghost to me anyway.

Your site in a way gave me a better image of you than most do, though.  While
it seemed like there are a whole bunch of different kinds of themes,
pictures, bunches of links and words/terms (I'm sure I'm one of those
25%ers... maybe only a 10%er), which were confusing to me... but, altogether,
the whole thing reflects you somehow to me anyway.  It's like you think fast
and it shows on your site.

Probably my biggest impression was, wow, this guy is smart, gifted, way over
my head and knows tech stuff - and that was before I learned you were such a
young curmudgeon.

But I agree with Walter, curmudgeon doesn't fit you.  A curmudgeon wouldn't
be fast, think quickly, etc.

Sheryl

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:02:20 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <e7dsuscc5fmrbofaquq6su061vqmvc0hpu@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> That is one of the wonders of cyberspace.  I had no idea you were
> that young.  Consequently I mistook what was probably youth for
> other aspects of your personality.

Like what?  I know it probably seems like I'm ego surfing here, but I'm
actually honestly curious about what people see of me on the other side
of the keyboard.  The view from this side of the monitor is completely
different.

> Although it might be that *unlike* in face to face - I did *not*
> mistake other aspects of your personality for youth!

Will you now?

> But was it curmudgeonery I sensed?
> Not at all.

See, that's because you don't know me as well in person.  When I'm
surrounded by teenagers and twenty-somethings, go to work full-time, go
to bed at 11pm, go to the same diners and restaurants week in and week
out, and have a pretty firm grasp on my motivations and preferences, it
seems very curmudgeonly to more nimble, open-minded people my age.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:03:53 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <4e.c5f318f.271fe346@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Sheryl Garner wrote:

> I doubt the *not much to look at* comment, but as I said in my last post,
> most everybody here is sort of a ghost to me anyway.

Eh, I have a bunch of pictures of myself, but I'm not satisfied with any
of them.  My best picture is my driver's license.

> Your site in a way gave me a better image of you than most do, though.  While
> it seemed like there are a whole bunch of different kinds of themes,
> pictures, bunches of links and words/terms (I'm sure I'm one of those
> 25%ers... maybe only a 10%er), which were confusing to me... but, altogether,
> the whole thing reflects you somehow to me anyway.  It's like you think fast
> and it shows on your site.

What do you see as the top five themes of my site, on first glance?  I'm
always looking to make it easier to use and more useful to visiors.

> Probably my biggest impression was, wow, this guy is smart, gifted, way over
> my head and knows tech stuff - and that was before I learned you were such a
> young curmudgeon.

When was that evident?

> But I agree with Walter, curmudgeon doesn't fit you.  A curmudgeon wouldn't
> be fast, think quickly, etc.

Perhaps.  See my earlier comment just now to Walter.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:59:31 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010191559510.7412-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

> Like what?  I know it probably seems like I'm ego surfing here, but I'm
> actually honestly curious about what people see of me on the other side
> of the keyboard.  The view from this side of the monitor is completely
> different.

All I really had was a ghostly image of who you are... no really
strong impression, and now I only have a memory of that.

But it was along the lines of an accountant past mid life, with
lots of wisdom, but with something keeping him silent mostly,
perhaps an unhealed wound or a bad marriage he was afraid to
leave.  I imagined him having a smattering of Jung and being a
sort of older mentor type friend to JoAnne.  Far from being the
thorough geek, I imagined a dabbler hobbyist with expertise in a
small niche of the cola lists.  The strongest memory relates to
your post on bananabeans - which is probably where i got the idea
of your wisdom from.

Interestingly the above paragraph is "my bananabean" of Rob circa
1998. (A memory about a bb) (for those who wish to see more about
bananabeans have a quick flick into the archives! - however it is
just a psybernet code word for "my image of you" - although
someone is bound to think otherwise :))

> > Although it might be that, *unlike* in face to face - I did *not*
> > mistake other aspects of your personality for youth!
>
> Will you now?

Well i am building up a new bBean :)


> > But was it curmudgeonery I sensed?
> > Not at all.

Maybe there is a touch of the curmudgeon in my image of you.

At least it is not a projection then... heheh ... unless it takes
one to know one!  I have the role fairly well developed.


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Online Group Consultant
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:21:05 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/19/2000 3:26:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

> Interestingly the above paragraph is "my bananabean" of Rob circa
>  1998. (A memory about a bb) (for those who wish to see more about
>  bananabeans have a quick flick into the archives! - however it is
>  just a psybernet code word for "my image of you" - although
>  someone is bound to think otherwise :))

Walter, how do I get access to the archives???  I guess I haven't tried since
PSYBER-L went semi-private, and I was denied the other night.

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:21:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
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In a message dated 10/17/2000 2:58:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

> Sheryl, do you have a URL?  I did see a lot of pumpkins around
>  this morning!

Walter, I have *really* been working on this the past few weeks, and it's not
nearly what I want yet, but I feel more dedicated to it recently:
http://www.Garnersonline.com

First, other than paying the .com fees, it's all been free;  second, there is
little danger of anyone even accidentally stumbling onto it at present  ;)

Pumpkins are everywhere here too!
(^.^)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:21:03 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rob :)

In a message dated 10/19/2000 2:05:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rcarls2@UMBC.EDU writes:

> What do you see as the top five themes of my site, on first glance?  I'm
>  always looking to make it easier to use and more useful to visiors.

How about three themes, going off the top of my head... 1) political, I
noticed the 3 party system piece, 2) the pictures, especially the lamp on the
head one, and I think I followed a link that had a picture of your sister,
and 3) the column on the right with all the peoples names/links, I thought
first, he has a lot of friends and I wonder if they all know they are
on-line, but later then he must be a part of some interlinking tech group.

>  When was that evident?

(I lost some of this exchange in my clipping) Evident that you are gifted:
probably from the first time I ever read a post (a technical one, I'm sure)
from you, but I missed out on all that bananabean stuff Walter wrote about.
Visiting your website just confirmed it.  Evident that you are younger:
Visiting your website.  Besides the pics, it has a freeness and confidence I
associate with *younger*.

Even then, though, I would have figured you for young 30-ish.  So I seem to
have a somewhat shared projection with Walter.  No crash, though, when I
learned that you're 21.

How are you taking all this erroneous projection from us, is it flattering or
not?

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:19:05 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <ce.c198991.2720cdcf@aol.com>
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Sheryl Garner wrote:

> How about three themes, going off the top of my head... 1) political, I
> noticed the 3 party system piece,

I added some more political stuff as my damily bulletins came in and I
sent a few more letters off to my representatives.

> 2) the pictures, especially the lamp on the
> head one, and I think I followed a link that had a picture of your sister,

You mean my girlfriend?  There are links to my sister on that page, but
Jacki's the one under the lamp.

> and 3) the column on the right with all the peoples names/links, I thought
> first, he has a lot of friends and I wonder if they all know they are
> on-line, but later then he must be a part of some interlinking tech group.

Well, they don't all often link back to me, but enough of the popular
ones do that I still get a lot of hits.

> (I lost some of this exchange in my clipping) Evident that you are gifted:
> probably from the first time I ever read a post (a technical one, I'm sure)
> from you, but I missed out on all that bananabean stuff Walter wrote about.

I don't write much technical stuff here, so I wonder what it might have
been.

> Visiting your website just confirmed it.  Evident that you are younger:
> Visiting your website.  Besides the pics, it has a freeness and confidence I
> associate with *younger*.

You mean I'm going to lose all this confidence?  That's no good.  :-)

> How are you taking all this erroneous projection from us, is it flattering or
> not?

It's just fascinating.  I feed off this sort of thing.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:29:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <i1rtusk4g9e56ltnlt1o6gc6prfmtqm01n@4ax.com>
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I'm not sure where you would have established accountant from, but I
guess that's just between you and your projections.

Actually, JoAnne has a few years on me, although I'm still something of
a mentor in the world of e-mail servers.  Not a good one, but one
nonetheless.  I wonder if she'd agree?

I like my post on bananabeans.  I was sitting in a quiet room in a
corner of the campus with a stack of printouts and a notepad, and I
think I scratched out three drafts of that post in pen and ink before I
finally settled on the one I typed in and posted to the list.

I wish I had more time to be able to do stuff like that these
days.  Lately, I'm lucky if I have time to sync in the new articles that
I've tapped out on the Palm Pilot.

Let me know what your new b.bean looks like?

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> Rob
>
> > Like what?  I know it probably seems like I'm ego surfing here, but I'm
> > actually honestly curious about what people see of me on the other side
> > of the keyboard.  The view from this side of the monitor is completely
> > different.
>
> All I really had was a ghostly image of who you are... no really
> strong impression, and now I only have a memory of that.
>
> But it was along the lines of an accountant past mid life, with
> lots of wisdom, but with something keeping him silent mostly,
> perhaps an unhealed wound or a bad marriage he was afraid to
> leave.  I imagined him having a smattering of Jung and being a
> sort of older mentor type friend to JoAnne.  Far from being the
> thorough geek, I imagined a dabbler hobbyist with expertise in a
> small niche of the cola lists.  The strongest memory relates to
> your post on bananabeans - which is probably where i got the idea
> of your wisdom from.
>
> Interestingly the above paragraph is "my bananabean" of Rob circa
> 1998. (A memory about a bb) (for those who wish to see more about
> bananabeans have a quick flick into the archives! - however it is
> just a psybernet code word for "my image of you" - although
> someone is bound to think otherwise :))
>
> > > Although it might be that, *unlike* in face to face - I did *not*
> > > mistake other aspects of your personality for youth!
> >
> > Will you now?
>
> Well i am building up a new bBean :)
>
>
> > > But was it curmudgeonery I sensed?
> > > Not at all.
>
> Maybe there is a touch of the curmudgeon in my image of you.
>
> At least it is not a projection then... heheh ... unless it takes
> one to know one!  I have the role fairly well developed.
>
>
> Walter
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> Psychotherapist
> Online Group Consultant
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:00:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've been sitting on the side reading these
discussions.  I am forming a concept of what banana
beans are, as well as trying to get a sense of who
people in the group are and what the group really is.

One thing that Rob wrote that caught my eye.  He
talked about drafting a post in pen and ink before
going to the keyboard.  I rarely write anything except
at the keyboard.  I am curious about others writing
styles.

Aldon
--- Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU> wrote:
> I'm not sure where you would have established
> accountant from, but I
> guess that's just between you and your projections.
>
> Actually, JoAnne has a few years on me, although I'm
> still something of
> a mentor in the world of e-mail servers.  Not a good
> one, but one
> nonetheless.  I wonder if she'd agree?
>
> I like my post on bananabeans.  I was sitting in a
> quiet room in a
> corner of the campus with a stack of printouts and a
> notepad, and I
> think I scratched out three drafts of that post in
> pen and ink before I
> finally settled on the one I typed in and posted to
> the list.
>
> I wish I had more time to be able to do stuff like
> that these
> days.  Lately, I'm lucky if I have time to sync in
> the new articles that
> I've tapped out on the Palm Pilot.
>
> Let me know what your new b.bean looks like?
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org
> http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:
>
> > Rob
> >
> > > Like what?  I know it probably seems like I'm
> ego surfing here, but I'm
> > > actually honestly curious about what people see
> of me on the other side
> > > of the keyboard.  The view from this side of the
> monitor is completely
> > > different.
> >
> > All I really had was a ghostly image of who you
> are... no really
> > strong impression, and now I only have a memory of
> that.
> >
> > But it was along the lines of an accountant past
> mid life, with
> > lots of wisdom, but with something keeping him
> silent mostly,
> > perhaps an unhealed wound or a bad marriage he was
> afraid to
> > leave.  I imagined him having a smattering of Jung
> and being a
> > sort of older mentor type friend to JoAnne.  Far
> from being the
> > thorough geek, I imagined a dabbler hobbyist with
> expertise in a
> > small niche of the cola lists.  The strongest
> memory relates to
> > your post on bananabeans - which is probably where
> i got the idea
> > of your wisdom from.
> >
> > Interestingly the above paragraph is "my
> bananabean" of Rob circa
> > 1998. (A memory about a bb) (for those who wish to
> see more about
> > bananabeans have a quick flick into the archives!
> - however it is
> > just a psybernet code word for "my image of you" -
> although
> > someone is bound to think otherwise :))
> >
> > > > Although it might be that, *unlike* in face to
> face - I did *not*
> > > > mistake other aspects of your personality for
> youth!
> > >
> > > Will you now?
> >
> > Well i am building up a new bBean :)
> >
> >
> > > > But was it curmudgeonery I sensed?
> > > > Not at all.
> >
> > Maybe there is a touch of the curmudgeon in my
> image of you.
> >
> > At least it is not a projection then... heheh ...
> unless it takes
> > one to know one!  I have the role fairly well
> developed.
> >
> >
> > Walter
> > ______________
> > Walter Logeman
> > Psychotherapist
> > Online Group Consultant
> > walter@psybernet.co.nz
> > http://www.psychotherapist.co.nz/walter.html
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> > here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:55:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <20001020160015.17667.qmail@web2101.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The concept was pretty well beaten out a few years ago.  Check the
archives.

I only draft out pen and ink first when it's really important, because I
see things there that I don't pick up on the keyboard.  Typing to me is
like talking these days.  Pen and ink is still very much writing.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:

> I've been sitting on the side reading these
> discussions.  I am forming a concept of what banana
> beans are, as well as trying to get a sense of who
> people in the group are and what the group really is.
>
> One thing that Rob wrote that caught my eye.  He
> talked about drafting a post in pen and ink before
> going to the keyboard.  I rarely write anything except
> at the keyboard.  I am curious about others writing
> styles.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:24:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: archive access
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter...

In a message dated 10/19/2000 4:21:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time, I wrote:

> Walter, how do I get access to the archives???  I guess I haven't tried
since
>  PSYBER-L went semi-private, and I was denied the other night.
>

I just did a little of my homework by reading the welcome to the PSYBER-L
emails and figured out how I can access them, sorry if I incovenienced you...
but is there a password or something to get access to them from the PSYBER-L
website?

S :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:25:00 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/20/2000 10:00:54 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ahynes1@YAHOO.COM writes:

> One thing that Rob wrote that caught my eye.  He
>  talked about drafting a post in pen and ink before
>  going to the keyboard.  I rarely write anything except
>  at the keyboard.  I am curious about others writing
>  styles.

I write at the keyboard, too, Aldon, pasting, editing, deleting, rewording.
It got even worse in 1997 or so when I was writing a bunch in grad school.
I'm trying to break that compulsive quality now.

I do spend a lot of time thinking about what and how I will write to PSYBER-L
on some topics, while I'm driving, in contemplative moments, even sometimes
in moments when I experience a synchronicity or *ah ha!*  So in a sense I
carry all of you around with me far more than when I'm just sitting at the
computer.

But then, sometimes I think so much about what I want to write that by the
time I get down to actually doing it, rewriting, editing, etc., PSYBER-L has
moved on and I can't figure out how to jump back in.  So there are a whole
lot of unwritten posts and thoughts in my head!

The Psyberian I'd most like to hear from on writing style is Steven (if
you've been following any of this!)  His posts are frequently so deep and
complex, I wonder, does he think that way and the words just flow right out
like that?  His writing has intrigued me for years.  I don't know if this is
a confession, but I've been a dedicated NetDynam lurker for years, too, so
that's a little like experiencing an additional (but not necessarily
different) side of his writing.

At any rate, good question, Aldon!  I'm curious, too :)

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:44:24 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: archive access
In-Reply-To:  <79.b031e24.2721e7fb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl

> is there a password or something to get access to them from the PSYBER-L
> website?

Yes but it is one you set up your self.  Sounds strange, but it
is quite sane, they email you to see if it is you.  Then after
that they dont need to do that, and with a "cookie" on your
machine you wont need to do it again, or even enter the password.
However you will need to enter it on a new computer say in a
cyber cafe.


Walter


Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:15:25 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <f4.3c3d8dc.2721e7fc@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl

Your post,

  Re: [P] Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
  Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:25:00 EDT

is moving for me. Without too much ado I have a companion, who
does much of what I do!

> I do spend a lot of time thinking about what and how I will write to PSYBER-L
> on some topics, while I'm driving, in contemplative moments, even sometimes
> in moments when I experience a synchronicity or *ah ha!*

That is it.  I am always psyberelling while I contemplate, read
or have ahas. It is almost painful if I have nothing to write on
at the time.  One reason i like to carry my Palm.

I then write a snippet - mostly on my Palm PDA or on my computer,
but it is hard to get back to - and to make a post. I am better
at "talking" - like this, responding to what is here than
"writing".

~~~

Yes good question Aldon.

I used to have a journal from 16 to about 5 years ago.  I email
and write on the computer and do a web log.  I miss the pen and
ink thing i did, but would not go back to it.  I am frustrated
though.  I have not found a good way to really *get out* what is
in me.

I am fussy with the software I use too.  I used to have Word for
DOS.  I liked that.  Now my plain text email editor window (in
Agent) is of about the same functionality.  I seem to have lost
my ability to use Word in recent versions and now mostly use
Homesite and write in HTML.

I am a little embarrassed to say it, but am working on two book
proposals (two because there seem to be two there and they wont
go away) I write in HTML for those.

I have stopped printing out as much as I did too, I copy webpages
to the palm for later reading, and that, surprisingly, works, I
get around to it and then copy snippets into memos...


enough, breakfast time!


Walter



Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:24:58 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Welcome Barrett Culmback
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Welcome Barrett Culmback,

There are 20 something of us here ('review Psyber-l' to the
listserv will send you a list) Aldon who I think was the last to
join - yes, about two months ago, said the other day:

"trying to get a sense of who people in the group are and what
the group really is."

I have a head start, but am doing much the same.  Having written
what it is for gives me a sense of the formal - but not of
reality the reality - whatever we create has a life of its own.

One thing that i bought to this group from the start is the idea
of it being "experiential" we are learning about the psyche and
cyberspace by being here.  Its a workshop.

Thanks for your intro note.  I also look forward to your
participation.


Walter
PS there is a link on each post to the web UI and archive of this
list.

~~~


Hello:  I am a professor of Philosophy and Eastern Religions at a
'major university' and have a deep interest in both psychology
and cyberspace -- hence my interest in your list.  I look forward
to participating.

Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:45:01 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Janell Adair <jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      New Addition
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

Hi All:

       I've been VERY busy with real world commitments, on Friday =
10/20/2000 my daughter gave birth to her son (her first after two =
daughters).   Jadin greeted the world at 8:57 PM weighing in at 10Lbs. 2 =
Oz., both mother and new grandson are doing very well.  This is the =
first grandchild of the new century for me, the other two being born in =
93 and 98 respectively.

     I'm very happy that her pregnancy is over and everything is all =
right, because my daughter had quite a bit of trouble in this pregnancy.

     I hope everyone is well and that I'll be able to catch up on some =
of the posts soon.

    Take care .


     Janell=20

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:37:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: New Addition
In-Reply-To:  <001101c03c2e$4b7513a0$f4cf263f@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Janell,

What a blessing...happy grandmothering

Cheers!
Judith

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:35:53 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: New Addition
In-Reply-To:  <001101c03c2e$4b7513a0$f4cf263f@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Janell

> This is the first grandchild of the new century for me,
> the other two being born in 93 and 98 respectively.

Congratulations!  Busy in the real world. I imagine you are
enjoying it a lot!

New additions here too - though not as close to home.  Kate is up
in Wellington with her cousin and friend who at 42 has just had a
baby girl.  She is up there doing a bit of bussoming as she calls
it.


Walter


Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:54:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <r2c1vs0nai45uako81oii5nga6jqo2huo6@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> That is it.  I am always psyberelling while I contemplate, read
> or have ahas. It is almost painful if I have nothing to write on
> at the time.  One reason i like to carry my Palm.
>
> I then write a snippet - mostly on my Palm PDA or on my computer,
> but it is hard to get back to - and to make a post. I am better
> at "talking" - like this, responding to what is here than
> "writing".

I used to use the Palm and keyboard more, but then I found that I
couldn't use it during my most thoughtful hour of the day: my commute
around Baltimore.

With that in mind, I bought a microcasette recorder, and record my
thoughts onto tape, and then transcribe them into the computer or Palm
Pilot when I'm sitting for an appointment or something.

It's almost tripled my output.  What that does to the quality is a
concern best left up to the reader.  :-)

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:46:47 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010230951070.15325-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Rob

> With that in mind, I bought a microcasette recorder, and record my
> thoughts onto tape, and then transcribe them into the computer or Palm
> Pilot when I'm sitting for an appointment or something.

I have that urge. It is an urge to be wired all the time, no?
Ideally the audio would transpose as txt, and be on the net
somewhere, so at the next visual terminal you cld edit it.

I have a 15min walk to work, but have been known to scribble into
the Palm, but that is easier to do walking than driving.

Walter


Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:07:43 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <f4.3c3d8dc.2721e7fc@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sheryl wonders,

(By the way, I follow everything; always have!)

"does he think that way and the words just flow right out like that?"

Sheryl, that is an intriguing way to express your curiosity because it
raises the idea of *writing like you think* and *flow*.

Speaking for one of my own ways of writing/thinking, and given the fact
that in some respects an email list is a captive audience, (which, of
course, is quite different than a captivated audience!), I'll say what it
is like to express myself in the flowing, possibly complex and maybe even
deep manner which sometimes is my 'style'.

***

In the sense of connecting up this style to my mood, jazz describes both
the style and the mood. In a jazz mood, I free myself up to improvise, to
freely blow a solo, to step out front and let the 'changes' (which, in a
musical sense, is the framework which provides the creative field to which
the player creatively responds,) be my guide.

An email thread, then, is like the framework an ensemble playing a song
provides. So, I have a musical response to the music I hear.

***

(Well, play again.) If I return to this subject of play, even in attempts
to inspire a song or two, it's because of my own desire to be in the fine
ensemble moment -here- where it is possible a kind of unique creative
collaboration become effected. It's something I thrive upon.

(Just yesterday I was feeling how special the relationships are which
promote this kind of interplay, They're also, in my experience rare.)

I suppose I grind my ax a bit here in the way I hope for, and favor, the
appearance of this kind of song. How does play allow for the turning over,
the quickening of psyche?

(On another list, my query "Is the psyche musical" didn't inspire much of a
response.)

***

Finally, there are two other points. There comes a point at times when the
player solos, the accompanying ensemble stops playing. The trick, in
playing jazz for example, is to provide the way back into the collaboration
for the band! It does happen that the soloist blows and everything after
that is anticlimactic, or worse, the improvisation is so complete, even
absolute, that the band can have nothing to add.

Sometimes my philosophical/polemical form has, apparently, caused such a
result. That's to say that truly collaborative and creative dialogue and
inter*play* supposes an integration of diverse moods and styles and also
demands an inter-sensitivity and richly open attitude of the 'players'.
Musicians speak of knowing the song, tuning to each other, listening,
feeling...

Don't worry it out, don't edit it down, don't take the audience much into
consideration except to try to create hooks for collaboration. Thank
goodness Eudora has a spellchecker. Ahh, sometimes I hit the mark and other
times I do not.

Judith and I, in our experiential learning work, distill this into the
'feeding of the collaborative field'. Incidentally, my relationship with
Judith exemplifies this kind of collaboration and also has demonstrated
that, as much as my natural disposition favors play and dialogue, a truly
creative collaboration makes precise demands on the players and also
rewards practice!

Most anybody -for whom the enjoyment of music is important- has probably
experienced musical ensemble transcending their multiplicity of parts,
their 'apart-ness', to forge a kind of creative unity. I note in those
instances, the group breaths together; I feel that is an apt description of
the inter-sensitivity that comes about in those wonderful moments. And, I
would say it happens here sometimes.

***

Second, I am reminded of the experiential game we played here. It was
designed by me to, hopefully, inspire the group to this kind of interplay.
It was, and I believe this is the first time I've stated this, only partly
successful. Perhaps the implicit demands on the players needed to be more
explicit. (That's my impression from the designer's perspective.)

On the other hand, for me, the game, (hey, the song!) did create a result:
*stay*. This is, at times, difficult to do; to stay with the song, to find
one's way into, through and out of it. Not everybody, obviously, is here to
play, to inter-play if you will. When a group creates a really complex
personal song together, (by my definition always a deep collaboration and
expression,) some persons may not even wish to be in the audience.

How to stay? How to let a certain vulnerability figure into one's creative
expression?

***

I hope this is complex and deep enough! Haven't done up a blow like this in
an age! Can't think like this and drive a car at the same time, I tell ya.
Hope I've left enough of the song so other players may make their own
statement. <|;-)

regards2all,

Stephen




  His writing has intrigued me for years.  I don't know if this is
>a confession, but I've been a dedicated NetDynam lurker for years, too, so
>that's a little like experiencing an additional (but not necessarily
>different) side of his writing.
>
>At any rate, good question, Aldon!  I'm curious, too :)
>
>Sheryl
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
>here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:32:11 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I really like Stephen's post comparing this list to a
Jazz band.  I used to play Bari Sax in a Jazz band,
but I never got any solos....

I especially like the idea of a solo that has enough
hooks for others to link in.  I find that alot of
email isn't written that way.  I often end my emails
with Comments?  It is a small hook, but a hook...

As to other lists and the question of "is the psyche
musical"?  To me it is.  For some unknown reason, my
mind wanders to the Glass Bead Game.  I read it so
long ago that my memories may have nothing to do with
the book, but I think of the psyche and all
creativity, music, painting, whatever as being
inexorably linked...

Personally, I am very interested in the link between
different mailing lists.  What effect does ones
converations on other lists have on this list and vice
versa....

On other notes, it is great to hear of a grandchild
coming into the world, but over ten pounds?  That is a
BIG baby.  I can imagine the delivery being difficult.

Finally, it feels like there is a little bit more
going on here and I am glad.  I may yet get a sense of
who everyone is.

Aldon

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:17:17 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Addition - Synchronicity!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/22/2000 5:42:21 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

> New additions here too - though not as close to home.  Kate is up
>  in Wellington with her cousin and friend who at 42 has just had a
>  baby girl.  She is up there doing a bit of bussoming as she calls
>  it.

Janell, congratulations on your new grandson!

I love this, I am experiencing synchronicities on several levels!

I too have had a new addition in the past month... a niece born to my brother
and sister-in-law, who are also older new parents Sept. 29.  They also have
an older little girl, 17 months, so I spent a few days earlier this month in
their home also "bussoming" (I do hope the word works for my experience, too
:), mostly with their older daughter.  It was a great, grand time for me,
letting my little niece lead me those 3 days, picking apples, pears, grapes
from their yard, petting their dogs and some horses boarded at their home.
Being, and loving it.

Another synchronicity with Janell... the addition of her new grandson, the
feeling of delight that it's a boy.  For me, it's delight being with a girl!
Since all my experience has been raising sons, I now have the privilege of
experiencing little girls, in a wonderful new way.

And last there is a synchronicity I felt following my "bussoming" trip... a
kind of renewal, of engaging life, touching my soul I felt, extending to
Psyber-L, engaging, despite hesitations and frustrations about my writing
style, just plowing through anyway, and reaching out - engaging life.

At the very least, new life has touched some of our lives...

Sheryl :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:17:19 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen, Psyberians :)

Thank you for your thoughtful response to my curiosity.  I won't clip from
your post, I think that I feel limited in that form.  It helps for focusing,
but at the moment I feel more compelled to respond in a freer form, which I
believe might be part of what describes your thinking/writing style?  Free
form better describes also my listening style, I believe, equally important,
but anyway here are some of my thoughts after reading about your style.

I do believe I have some identification with your comparison to music, and
your game, where does it go?  Where does it lead?  To whom?  To what *end*,
or is there no end, and can the beauty be just experienced in the moments of
the harmonized parts, as you said interplaying, but also in the darker
moments... I'm thinking of music in which suddenly maybe a tuba blares out at
a seemingly inappropriate moment, or a drum beat out of rhythm.

Those were mostly rhetorical questions, but I think do describe the sense of
directions and fostering of creativity I experience in Psyber-L.  Your game
last summer, the point of the game is not the end result but the interplay of
the players, the experience of the game and the play itself.  In that respect
I believe your game succeeded, for me anyway.

I still think about that empty bench once in awhile.

Stephen, I think I can understand why you would not *think like this and
drive a car at the same time*... it would be very easy to end up somewhere
other than where you were going.

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:52:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Cyber/PSYBER thoughts and who you are
In-Reply-To:  <20001023163211.8044.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:

> Personally, I am very interested in the link between different
> mailing lists.  What effect does ones converations on other lists
> have on this list and vice versa....

You should read back in 1998 to the big JoAnne/Julienne tiff.  Those
posts should give you a good start on answering those questions.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:52:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <1jj8vsg61lr5np58p14b0hbks95p4voqnj@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

To me, wired means that other people can bother me when I don't want to
be bothered.  I just want to create some output for the next time I
decide to link up to the net.  My commute is about 30 minutes, and I
don't carry a cell phone, ever.  And it's possible, but not recommended,
to drive and scribble script on a Palm Pilot.  Trust me on this.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> I have that urge. It is an urge to be wired all the time, no?
> Ideally the audio would transpose as txt, and be on the net
> somewhere, so at the next visual terminal you cld edit it.
>
> I have a 15min walk to work, but have been known to scribble into
> the Palm, but that is easier to do walking than driving.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:21:21 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010231650250.22571-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

> To me, wired means that other people can bother me when I don't want to
> be bothered.

That is RL, wired means "at my place, my time, my pace"  I have
the ability to control all the in/out gateways.

Walter


Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:38:32 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Writing style
In-Reply-To:  <4ra9vs8e9fkhuvire30pvmug8g2tt5vgta@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> > To me, wired means that other people can bother me when I don't want to
> > be bothered.
>
> That is RL, wired means "at my place, my time, my pace"  I have
> the ability to control all the in/out gateways.

I'm an introvert.  I've spent my life developing biological "do not
disturb" signs.  So people know how to handle me in person.  But when I
carry a beeper or cell phone, people intrude without any way of knowing
what I'm doing before that instant.

I can do without that.  But yeah, there's a little bit of good and bad
in both.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:03:54 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Motivational camp
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Psyberians,  Long time no post.
  My niece, now in Wellington, NZ  has just experienced
a program called Discovery developed by Michael Wall.
It's for adolescents and she is most impressed with its
effect on my nephew.
  Anyone ever hear of it and care to comment?
      Thanks, Nancy   (aka Little Lamp in once proposed
Psyche drama.)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:39:32 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <653css85kivi7k3ns3dl2k0qa858k101ou@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

*
Hi all I just checked on an email address and thought i'd post
our list here.

Walter

~~~



PumpknSoul@AOL.COM         Sheryl Garner
hoon@APK.NET               Stephen Calhoun
judithb@APK.NET            Judith Buerkel
cyberguru8@EARTHLINK.NET   Barrett Culmback
hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET      Charles Cameron
jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET     Janell Adair
dan@GROUPSENSE.CO.NZ       Dan Randow
sarina_simpson@HOTMAIL.COM Sarina Simpson
wkury@LARIAT.ORG           Wendell M Kury
bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK         Bent Bgedal Christoffersen
anitak@MEGABAUD.FI         Anita Konkka
malai@MOLDOVA.MD           Iurie Malai
nsmith@NEGIA.NET           Nancy Smith
utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ     Miles Thompson
jfadair9@PHILLY.INFI.NET   Janell Adair
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ     Walter Logeman
simon@SIMBIOSIS.COM        Simon G. Trask
aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA      Robert Longpre
rcarls2@UMBC.EDU           Rob Carlson
sswan@USD.EDU              Susan Swan
mcgee@WELL.COM             Art McGee
ahynes1@YAHOO.COM          Aldon Hynes
robinjaii@YAHOO.COM        Robin Jai




Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:27:38 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <cu0kvsgqhms6bmjujkeommntd33lral7at@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I always feel like there are about twice as many people on this list at
any given (active) moment.  I think if this list had around 110
subscribers very similar to the core group it has now, it would be at a
perfect level.  Right now, it's intimate, but not as productive as it
could be in terms of competing ideas.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> *
> Hi all I just checked on an email address and thought i'd post
> our list here.
>
> Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:23:33 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010271925500.20143-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
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Rob, all

> I always feel like there are about twice as many people on this list at
> any given (active) moment.  I think if this list had around 110
> subscribers very similar to the core group it has now, it would be at a
> perfect level.  Right now, it's intimate, but not as productive as it
> could be in terms of competing ideas.

I think you are right...

I am forever adding it to Lists of lists etc.  It comes up well
on search engines.

One of the things that has pruned it a lot is that people who do
not post for three months get a message asking them to confirm
their membership.  If they don't do that in 14 days they drop
off.  I think this is OK, it helps the sense of connection.

Some personal invites are the way to go, who would you like to
see here?


  Walter





Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:27:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Motivational camp
In-Reply-To:  <39FA09DA.B9CE7BBB@negia.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Wow Nancy good to hear your "voice" after soooo long

Blessings,
Judith

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:12:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      who is here
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Wow Nancy good to hear your "voice" after soooo long

>Blessings,
>Judith

  Thanks Judith,
    Among other things, I think I've been going through
a 'shy spell'.

  I agree with Walter about the 3 monthly pruning have
much or most to do with this lists size.  It doesn't
happen on the other 6-7 list to which I'm subscribed
(but don't much read as I do this one.)  Hence I deem
the membership of the others to be inflated by non-
participants.  (Possibly 'dead' as some 'voters' used
to be!)

  Hi to all with long memories,

         Nancy

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Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:39:01 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <kskkvs08sonetg0ivdlj6dddq78m9m9it2@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> One of the things that has pruned it a lot is that people who do
> not post for three months get a message asking them to confirm
> their membership.  If they don't do that in 14 days they drop
> off.  I think this is OK, it helps the sense of connection.

I think inactive subscribers can occasionally be goaded to participate
after long periods of silence, especially when web sites are involved.
I'm not really sure how that would affect the dynamic here, though.

> Some personal invites are the way to go, who would you like to
> see here?

Things would certainly be more active if JoAnne and Julienne were still
around.  Lord, those were the days.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:35:37 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob Carlson wrote:
>

> Things would certainly be more active if JoAnne and Julienne were still
> around.  Lord, those were the days.
>
> Rob

  You sound sort of nostalgic, Rob.  Maybe the would come back, if we
could find and invite them?
  Personally, I could recapture the same experience by watching Bear (my
dog) chase his tail.  (By this I don't mean any criticism of them
individually.)
      Remembering,      Nancy
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:36:05 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <39FB8CF9.94B36CAA@negia.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Nancy Smith wrote:

>   You sound sort of nostalgic, Rob.  Maybe the would come back, if we
> could find and invite them?
>   Personally, I could recapture the same experience by watching Bear (my
> dog) chase his tail.  (By this I don't mean any criticism of them
> individually.)

It's sort of a "I wonder what that car accident would look like if we
played it again in slow motion" kind of nostalgia.

Finding a ESFP/INTJ combination like to go head-on-hea dthat is always
worth a few laughs.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:43:57 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

I am reading a book called "The Archivist" - a first novel by
Martha Cooley, anyone read it?

Reading this book I have many of those occasions - while reading
thinking, I must post to Psyber-L about this, and then I don't.
Life is so full!

I like the synchronicity between the lives of the characters and
the story of T.S. Eliot and his first wife Vivienne and his
friend Emily Hale which is also revealed in the novel.

Was it one of the Marx brothers who said that Eliot was going mad
so he committed his wife to a mental institution?  This is a
story with that theme. The characters also play out these roles,
and...

This is not unlike some of the drama in the life of my parents -
and Kate's parents too.

Why does it prompt me to think - Psyber-L?  That sense of
interwoven themes, revealing themselves accidentally but with a
deeper purposefulness to make up a larger story.


Walter

Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:55:02 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
In-Reply-To:  <kevmvscgn4kflji97jbmdvteja23dtv52h@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am aware immediately i re-read this of Stephen's post and Jazz.

> Why does it prompt me to think - Psyber-L?  That sense of
> interwoven themes, revealing themselves accidentally but with a
> deeper purposefulness to make up a larger story.

Stephen wrote:

"This is, at times, difficult to do; to stay with the song, to
find one's way into, through and out of it. Not everybody,
obviously, is here to play, to inter-play if you will. When a
group creates a really complex personal song together, (by my
definition always a deep collaboration and expression,) some
persons may not even wish to be in the audience."

There is an intensity in the revelation of the patterns some find
hard. "The Archivist" refers to a line of Eliot's:

    I can connect
    Nothing with Nothing.

Which captures the disengagement that some characters have in the
face of the intense awareness and of others.


Walter



Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:09:29 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter, what I have to say my strike you as very niave, but my reaction
(projective if Judith and Stephen wish) to your comments is: wouldn't it
be less painful to hit  yourself with a hammer than to read such a book?
    Nancy
    Sitting over here in her own moccosans and wondering.


Walter Logeman wrote:
>
> I am reading a book called "The Archivist" - a first novel by
> Martha Cooley, anyone read it?
> I like the synchronicity between the lives of the characters and
> the story of T.S. Eliot and his first wife Vivienne and his
> friend Emily Hale which is also revealed in the novel.
>
> Was it one of the Marx brothers who said that Eliot was going mad
> so he committed his wife to a mental institution?  This is a
> story with that theme. The characters also play out these roles,
> and...
>
> This is not unlike some of the drama in the life of my parents -
> and Kate's parents too.

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 07:15:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Well everyone tossing around these four letter
abbreviations made me go back and dig up the four
letters that were used to describe me.

A few years ago, I was ENXP.  I've been through a lot
of stuff over the past few years and wonder how I
would come out today.  I am also curious about the
personalities of everyone else here.

For a fun game, looking at impression formation on
line, I am thinking about reading through the archives
and taking guesses at what everyone's personality is.

Aldon

> Finding a ESFP/INTJ combination like to go
> head-on-hea dthat is always
> worth a few laughs.



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Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:24:09 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Aldon,

What a way to pull me back into the dialogue here. <smile>

> I am also curious about the
> personalities of everyone else here.

Well, to save you the trouble with attempting to uncover my "personality"
profile according the the Myers-Briggs classification system, I'll tell you
outright.

I am and have been since I first tested years and years ago, INFP.  In many
ways this helps to account for my silent retreats here.

Robert

PS  I wonder if the "X" has decided to become identified.  I don't think an
"X" is used anymore.  Rather, one of the two potential tendencies (letters)
is selected and given a weight of "0" (zero).  Looking forward to hearing
how you re-test.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:54:31 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Aldon,
  I'm usually INFP but have at times tested T and J  Probably too far
over on I and N to ever waver.
       Nancy

Aldon Hynes wrote:
>     I am also curious about the
> personalities of everyone else here.
___         ...

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Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:28:49 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Okay, my perceptions....

I don't know an aweful lot about Myers-Briggs et al,
so my views may have no basis any any reality other
than my own....

Nancy has written that she is INFP
Robert L was also written that he is INFP
I've written about being ENXP

My sense it that Walter is also ENXP, but that maybe
just my own projections.  Some of his posts feel ENFP
and I think some of his other posts are ENTP

I was thinking of Rob C as being EXFP.  Yet he posts
about being introverted.  Perhaps I tend to think of
people who post often as being extroverted and those
who don't as being introverted....

I don't have much of a sense for Judith, other than
being feeling.  If I were to take a guess, I would
probably place her as I_F_  (The blanks means I am not
sure).

Sheryl I am really not sure about.  Sometimes her
posts seem ESFJ, sometimes ESFP, sometimes ENTP and
sometimes ENTP.  My gut feeling is that I would think
she is ESFJ.

Jannell also, for some reason strikes me as ESFJ

Bent hasn't posted in a while, but he struck me as
INFP

So, does the group has a whole have a personality?  It
seems like INFP might be the predominant personality,
which probably leads to silences.

What sort of reactions does this elicit?

Aldon

--- Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET> wrote:
> Hi Aldon,
>   I'm usually INFP but have at times tested T and J
> Probably too far
> over on I and N to ever waver.
>        Nancy
>
> Aldon Hynes wrote:
> >     I am also curious about the
> > personalities of everyone else here.
> ___         ...
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:27:00 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <20001029151527.5580.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

SPOILER BELOW:

I used to be an INTP but now I'm pretty well set in my INTJ ways.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:

> For a fun game, looking at impression formation on
> line, I am thinking about reading through the archives
> and taking guesses at what everyone's personality is.

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Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:53:27 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
In-Reply-To:  <39FC67D9.B2CB041@negia.net>
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Nancy, all

> wouldn't it be less painful to hit  yourself with a hammer
> than to read such a book?

Funnily enough I have loved reading it.  Maybe my description was
a bit off... below is a review from Amazon that fits with what i
experienced.

As I have read further into the book there is quite a theme to
about archives of correspondence - many ethical questions -
another theme that reverberates with our process here, certainly
with me - I am an archivist!

~~~

What is the most "psyber-lish" book you have read?

Now there is a question we could *play* with.  I'd want to read
the top contender straight away!


Walter


~~~


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0316158461/psybernbooksinasA/
- The Archivist : A Novel by Martha Cooley

A Brilliant, Electrifying, Literary First Novel, August 11, 1999
Reviewer: Palmtree95@aol.com from New Jersey

I stayed up late enraptured by the discovery of this marvelous
first novel. Complex , literary, it revolves around Matthias, the
archivist of literary documents at a prestigious university
library. He is the gatekeeper of letters written by T.S. Eliot to
a woman who he loved for most of his life, Emily Hale, and then
spurned after his religious conversion to the Anglican Church.
These letters are the bequest of Hale to the library, not to be
opened until the year 2020, to scholars. Into Matt's life comes
Roberta, a poet, who is obsessed with seeing the letters as a way
to understand her own religious identity. Interwoven with the
story of Eliot's relationship with his wife Vivienne, committed
to a mental institution by Eliot, is the story of Matt's marriage
to the dark, unfathomable Judith who is also a poet. Eliot's life
is the 'stillpoint of the turning world' upon which the lives of
Matt, Judith and Roberta balance as each of them comes to terms
with hidden secrets, revelation, religious identity, faith,
solitude, obsession and the spiritual vacuum created by the
aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust. This book is multi-textured;
a delicate tapestry of meaning is woven. It's finely crafted like
a beautiful symphony as themes, exposition and resolution are
spun by the author. And when all is finally woven together magic
occurs, and the reader learns something valuable about his or her
own life. Any reader can ask for nothing more sublime from an
author than this.



Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:09:22 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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The Archivist by Martha Cooley:

 I applaud anyone finding a book of serious fiction
they can enjoy in depth and take full responsibility
for my own reaction.
  Mostly I don't read fiction except when awaiting
sleep and then it tend to be light or 'cosy' murder
mysteries which usually have women sleuths and a dog or two.
  Books of serious, psychological betrayal scare me silly.  Too close to
home, I guess.  Can't even watch
the movie Gaslight.
  I'd like to find a sensible novel about Episcopal
missionary work, as I'm trying to weave some emotional
treads between my local Episcopal pastor's feeling/convictions about
Christ and the connection I developed between myself and Jung's concept
of the Self (ie representation of the divine within each of us.)
  Any suggestions?

Walter, would you care to elaborate beyond the one example as to what
you mean by "psyber-lish"?  Like the "Cocktail Party" on a deeper level
perhaps?  Or...?


Walter Logeman wrote:
>
> Nancy, all
>
> > wouldn't it be less painful to hit  yourself with a hammer
> > than to read such a book?
>
> Funnily enough I have loved reading it.

> another theme that reverberates with our process here, certainly
> with me - I am an archivist!
>
> ~~~
>
> What is the most "psyber-lish" book you have read?
>
> Now there is a question we could *play* with.  I'd want to read
> the top contender straight away!
>
> Walter
>
> ~~~
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0316158461/psybernbooksinasA/
> - The Archivist : A Novel by Martha Cooley
>
> A Brilliant, Electrifying, Literary First Novel, August 11, 1999
> Reviewer: Palmtree95@aol.com from New Jersey
>
> I stayed up late enraptured by the discovery of this marvelous
> first novel. Complex , literary, it revolves around Matthias, the
> archivist of literary documents at a prestigious university
> library. He is the gatekeeper of letters written by T.S. Eliot to
> a woman who he loved for most of his life, Emily Hale, and then
> spurned after his religious conversion to the Anglican Church.
> These letters are the bequest of Hale to the library, not to be
> opened until the year 2020, to scholars. Into Matt's life comes
> Roberta, a poet, who is obsessed with seeing the letters as a way
> to understand her own religious identity. Interwoven with the
> story of Eliot's relationship with his wife Vivienne, committed
> to a mental institution by Eliot, is the story of Matt's marriage
> to the dark, unfathomable Judith who is also a poet. Eliot's life
> is the 'stillpoint of the turning world' upon which the lives of
> Matt, Judith and Roberta balance as each of them comes to terms
> with hidden secrets, revelation, religious identity, faith,
> solitude, obsession and the spiritual vacuum created by the
> aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust. This book is multi-textured;
> a delicate tapestry of meaning is woven. It's finely crafted like
> a beautiful symphony as themes, exposition and resolution are
> spun by the author. And when all is finally woven together magic
> occurs, and the reader learns something valuable about his or her
> own life. Any reader can ask for nothing more sublime from an
> author than this.
>
> Walter Logeman
> Psychotherapist
> PO BOX 13543
> Christchurch
> New Zealand
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:46:24 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Anglican fiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My fiancee recommends any book by Susan Howitch.  She
has an "Anglican Church Series".  _Glittering Images_
is the first of the series.  Also, Gail Godwin's
Evensong is probably a good starting point.

Aldon


--- Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET> wrote:
> The Archivist by Martha Cooley:
>
>  I applaud anyone finding a book of serious fiction
> they can enjoy in depth and take full responsibility
> for my own reaction.
>   Mostly I don't read fiction except when awaiting
> sleep and then it tend to be light or 'cosy' murder
> mysteries which usually have women sleuths and a dog
> or two.
>   Books of serious, psychological betrayal scare me
> silly.  Too close to
> home, I guess.  Can't even watch
> the movie Gaslight.
>   I'd like to find a sensible novel about Episcopal
> missionary work, as I'm trying to weave some
> emotional
> treads between my local Episcopal pastor's
> feeling/convictions about
> Christ and the connection I developed between myself
> and Jung's concept
> of the Self (ie representation of the divine within
> each of us.)
>   Any suggestions?
>
> Walter, would you care to elaborate beyond the one
> example as to what
> you mean by "psyber-lish"?  Like the "Cocktail
> Party" on a deeper level
> perhaps?  Or...?
>
>
> Walter Logeman wrote:
> >
> > Nancy, all
> >
> > > wouldn't it be less painful to hit  yourself
> with a hammer
> > > than to read such a book?
> >
> > Funnily enough I have loved reading it.
>
> > another theme that reverberates with our process
> here, certainly
> > with me - I am an archivist!
> >
> > ~~~
> >
> > What is the most "psyber-lish" book you have read?
> >
> > Now there is a question we could *play* with.  I'd
> want to read
> > the top contender straight away!
> >
> > Walter
> >
> > ~~~
> >
> >
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0316158461/psybernbooksinasA/
> > - The Archivist : A Novel by Martha Cooley
> >
> > A Brilliant, Electrifying, Literary First Novel,
> August 11, 1999
> > Reviewer: Palmtree95@aol.com from New Jersey
> >
> > I stayed up late enraptured by the discovery of
> this marvelous
> > first novel. Complex , literary, it revolves
> around Matthias, the
> > archivist of literary documents at a prestigious
> university
> > library. He is the gatekeeper of letters written
> by T.S. Eliot to
> > a woman who he loved for most of his life, Emily
> Hale, and then
> > spurned after his religious conversion to the
> Anglican Church.
> > These letters are the bequest of Hale to the
> library, not to be
> > opened until the year 2020, to scholars. Into
> Matt's life comes
> > Roberta, a poet, who is obsessed with seeing the
> letters as a way
> > to understand her own religious identity.
> Interwoven with the
> > story of Eliot's relationship with his wife
> Vivienne, committed
> > to a mental institution by Eliot, is the story of
> Matt's marriage
> > to the dark, unfathomable Judith who is also a
> poet. Eliot's life
> > is the 'stillpoint of the turning world' upon
> which the lives of
> > Matt, Judith and Roberta balance as each of them
> comes to terms
> > with hidden secrets, revelation, religious
> identity, faith,
> > solitude, obsession and the spiritual vacuum
> created by the
> > aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust. This book is
> multi-textured;
> > a delicate tapestry of meaning is woven. It's
> finely crafted like
> > a beautiful symphony as themes, exposition and
> resolution are
> > spun by the author. And when all is finally woven
> together magic
> > occurs, and the reader learns something valuable
> about his or her
> > own life. Any reader can ask for nothing more
> sublime from an
> > author than this.
> >
> > Walter Logeman
> > Psychotherapist
> > PO BOX 13543
> > Christchurch
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> > here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:31:39 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Book Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I just finished reading E by Matt Beaumont.  It is a
collection of emails inside an advertising firm in
England.  While the content of the message appear
considerably different than the messages on this list,
Marshall McLuhan tells us the Medium is the Message
and so I recommend this book.  Especially since it is
a fun quick read....

Aldon
--- Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ> wrote:
> Nancy, all
>
> > wouldn't it be less painful to hit  yourself with
> a hammer
> > than to read such a book?
>
> Funnily enough I have loved reading it.  Maybe my
> description was
> a bit off... below is a review from Amazon that fits
> with what i
> experienced.
>
> As I have read further into the book there is quite
> a theme to
> about archives of correspondence - many ethical
> questions -
> another theme that reverberates with our process
> here, certainly
> with me - I am an archivist!
>
> ~~~
>
> What is the most "psyber-lish" book you have read?
>
> Now there is a question we could *play* with.  I'd
> want to read
> the top contender straight away!
>
>
> Walter
>
>
> ~~~
>
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0316158461/psybernbooksinasA/
> - The Archivist : A Novel by Martha Cooley
>
> A Brilliant, Electrifying, Literary First Novel,
> August 11, 1999
> Reviewer: Palmtree95@aol.com from New Jersey
>
> I stayed up late enraptured by the discovery of this
> marvelous
> first novel. Complex , literary, it revolves around
> Matthias, the
> archivist of literary documents at a prestigious
> university
> library. He is the gatekeeper of letters written by
> T.S. Eliot to
> a woman who he loved for most of his life, Emily
> Hale, and then
> spurned after his religious conversion to the
> Anglican Church.
> These letters are the bequest of Hale to the
> library, not to be
> opened until the year 2020, to scholars. Into Matt's
> life comes
> Roberta, a poet, who is obsessed with seeing the
> letters as a way
> to understand her own religious identity. Interwoven
> with the
> story of Eliot's relationship with his wife
> Vivienne, committed
> to a mental institution by Eliot, is the story of
> Matt's marriage
> to the dark, unfathomable Judith who is also a poet.
> Eliot's life
> is the 'stillpoint of the turning world' upon which
> the lives of
> Matt, Judith and Roberta balance as each of them
> comes to terms
> with hidden secrets, revelation, religious identity,
> faith,
> solitude, obsession and the spiritual vacuum created
> by the
> aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust. This book is
> multi-textured;
> a delicate tapestry of meaning is woven. It's finely
> crafted like
> a beautiful symphony as themes, exposition and
> resolution are
> spun by the author. And when all is finally woven
> together magic
> occurs, and the reader learns something valuable
> about his or her
> own life. Any reader can ask for nothing more
> sublime from an
> author than this.
>
>
>
> Walter Logeman
> Psychotherapist
> PO BOX 13543
> Christchurch
> New Zealand
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:13:35 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Anglican fiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks Aldon.  Just ordered Glittering Images from Amazon (which as
usual is annoyingly vague about series.)
  Actually Susan Howitch was recommended in a recent church newsletter.
I thought, 'What?  I used to buy her books for romance readers years ago
when I was selecting for a library region with 7 branches.  Never
thought of her in this light (or read any of her books.)
  Just finished reading the last third of "Here I Stand" by Bishop John
Shelby Spong, whom the local pastor thinks is an iconoclast.
(Interesting.  Someday I may read the first two-thirds!)
  "Glittering..." may serve as a transitional book between non-fiction
and before sleep reading :-)
       Gratefully, Nancy


Aldon Hynes wrote:
>
> My fiancee recommends any book by Susan Howitch.  She
> has an "Anglican Church Series".  _Glittering Images_
> is the first of the series.  Also, Gail Godwin's
> Evensong is probably a good starting point.
>
> Aldon
>
> --- Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET> wrote:
> > The Archivist by Martha Cooley:
> >
> >  I applaud anyone finding a book of serious fiction
> > they can enjoy in depth and take full responsibility
> > for my own reaction.
> >   Mostly I don't read fiction except when awaiting
> > sleep and then it tend to be light or 'cosy' murder
> > mysteries which usually have women sleuths and a dog
> > or two.
> >   Books of serious, psychological betrayal scare me
> > silly.  Too close to
> > home, I guess.  Can't even watch
> > the movie Gaslight.
> >   I'd like to find a sensible novel about Episcopal
> > missionary work, as I'm trying to weave some
> > emotional
> > treads between my local Episcopal pastor's
> > feeling/convictions about
> > Christ and the connection I developed between myself
> > and Jung's concept
> > of the Self (ie representation of the divine within
> > each of us.)
> >   Any suggestions?
> >
> > Walter, would you care to elaborate beyond the one
> > example as to what
> > you mean by "psyber-lish"?  Like the "Cocktail
> > Party" on a deeper level
> > perhaps?  Or...?
> >
> >
> > Walter Logeman wrote:
> > >
> > > Nancy, all
> > >
> > > > wouldn't it be less painful to hit  yourself
> > with a hammer
> > > > than to read such a book?
> > >
> > > Funnily enough I have loved reading it.
> >
> > > another theme that reverberates with our process
> > here, certainly
> > > with me - I am an archivist!
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > >
> > > What is the most "psyber-lish" book you have read?
> > >
> > > Now there is a question we could *play* with.  I'd
> > want to read
> > > the top contender straight away!
> > >
> > > Walter
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0316158461/psybernbooksinasA/
> > > - The Archivist : A Novel by Martha Cooley
> > >
> > > A Brilliant, Electrifying, Literary First Novel,
> > August 11, 1999
> > > Reviewer: Palmtree95@aol.com from New Jersey
> > >
> > > I stayed up late enraptured by the discovery of
> > this marvelous
> > > first novel. Complex , literary, it revolves
> > around Matthias, the
> > > archivist of literary documents at a prestigious
> > university
> > > library. He is the gatekeeper of letters written
> > by T.S. Eliot to
> > > a woman who he loved for most of his life, Emily
> > Hale, and then
> > > spurned after his religious conversion to the
> > Anglican Church.
> > > These letters are the bequest of Hale to the
> > library, not to be
> > > opened until the year 2020, to scholars. Into
> > Matt's life comes
> > > Roberta, a poet, who is obsessed with seeing the
> > letters as a way
> > > to understand her own religious identity.
> > Interwoven with the
> > > story of Eliot's relationship with his wife
> > Vivienne, committed
> > > to a mental institution by Eliot, is the story of
> > Matt's marriage
> > > to the dark, unfathomable Judith who is also a
> > poet. Eliot's life
> > > is the 'stillpoint of the turning world' upon
> > which the lives of
> > > Matt, Judith and Roberta balance as each of them
> > comes to terms
> > > with hidden secrets, revelation, religious
> > identity, faith,
> > > solitude, obsession and the spiritual vacuum
> > created by the
> > > aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust. This book is
> > multi-textured;
> > > a delicate tapestry of meaning is woven. It's
> > finely crafted like
> > > a beautiful symphony as themes, exposition and
> > resolution are
> > > spun by the author. And when all is finally woven
> > together magic
> > > occurs, and the reader learns something valuable
> > about his or her
> > > own life. Any reader can ask for nothing more
> > sublime from an
> > > author than this.
> > >
> > > Walter Logeman
> > > Psychotherapist
> > > PO BOX 13543
> > > Christchurch
> > > New Zealand
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> > unsubscribe
> > > here:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> > unsubscribe
> > here:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:53:57 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Anglican fiction/Whoops!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Whoops, whoops.  Before you can say it,  Walter, I just realized I
goofed not cropping the string of replies to save achive space.  Guess I
thought Aldon had and he probably thought I had.

Nancy Smith wrote:
>
> Thanks Aldon.  Just ordered Glittering Images from Amazon ...

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:47:10 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/29/00 11:31:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ahynes1@YAHOO.COM writes:

> Sheryl I am really not sure about.  Sometimes her
>  posts seem ESFJ, sometimes ESFP, sometimes ENTP and
>  sometimes ENTP.  My gut feeling is that I would think
>  she is ESFJ.

Looks like I must really be confusing, Aldon!

But I'm actually INFP.

I suspect it might be easier to appear to be an E on-line.

Sheryl :)

____________________________________________________________
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here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:42:11 +1300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
In-Reply-To:  <39FDC762.2B4E9953@negia.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nancy,

Psyber-ellish?  It is what ever you make of it. Mentioning books
you feel as related or expressive of this group (or movies or
music) is one for giving us a sense of the atmosphere your
experience - as well as sharing our book habits.

That is not to say it is all subjective... the atmosphere does
exist in some way. In our associating the atmosphere with a book,
music movie or painting it gives some body to our experience and
creates something here too.

I suppose it is like walking into a house, and looking at the
books... it gives me a feel for the sort of place i am in and the
people.  That would help choose a book as a present.

I have a nice little cyberspace shelf, with some good books on it
- yet they dont really relate to the feel here.  Nor do my
jungian books.

I'd want to add all of Robertson Davies books here - especially
the trilogy with the jungian analysis in the middle book.  I also
think there is something Psyber-ellish about A.S. Bayatt -
personal lives with a focus on writing and words.


Walter



Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
PO BOX 13543
Christchurch
New Zealand

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:27:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      fiction
In-Reply-To:  <39FE0EAF.1663F173@negia.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

I'm not a big fiction reader these days. However, over the years I've
usually chosen to interject Shakespearean references because, for me,
Psyberia evokes a comedy of errors along the lines of Shakespeare's deep
comedic dramas. (Think: The Tempest or Alls Well That Ends Well or A
Midsummer Night's Dream.)

So I feel around the gender-bending, masks, misplaced and mis-referred
identities, projection, romantic confusion, and the turnarounds which
allow, sometimes suddenly, all the mistakes to be dramatically righted.

***

puckishly,

Stephen

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:27:33 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010271925500.20143-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

Rob writes, "Right now, it's intimate, but not as productive as it could be
in terms of competing ideas."

Didn't want this to pass without notice, Rob. This interests me. Maybe it
has some relationship with a dialogue as a kind of musical interplay. The
image of a 'polyphonic' dialogue comes to mind.

What compels me to explore different ideas, and to also favor exploration
as a matter of interplay, is there sympathetic, antimonious, or creative
relationships. This would also be true for an interplay of experiences too;
perhaps especially so for how different person's experiences come into
relationship.

Diversity and multiplicity is a real strength of the expressive network an
email list may manifest.

***

best2all,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:27:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <20001029182849.25198.qmail@web2106.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

Aldon writes,

>Okay, my perceptions....
>
>I don't know an aweful lot about Myers-Briggs et al,
>so my views may have no basis any any reality other
>than my own....

This is the most interesting -to me- facet of your informed guessing about
peoples' types. How does your impression of persons' M-B types figure into
your reality?

***

More generally: there are two problems with typology in this kind of
context. One is the tendency to make a given type a fixed description of a
person and then to attach further 'fixations' to the description. This may
lead to reification. Obviously it can lead to projections. This problem may
exist for every particular framework, of course, i.e. 'Freudians see
through Freudian rose-colored glasses', etc.

The other problem is the use of any framework in an uninformed manner. The
Myers-Briggs framework may be said to exist in-total in an uninformed
relationship to Jung's work on personality typology. This is especially
apparent when the tendency to reify types is made apparent because the
refined and dynamic typology of Jung doesn't suggest a framework as easily
made concrete as the MBTI, that, after all, has become for some a 'tool'.

Any kind of tool orientation also may tend to sweep contradictions, blind
spots, and other shortcomings off the table because the utility of a
framework may have an inverse relation to its weaknesses. In other words,
in using a framework, or a feature of a framework, as a tool there is a
natural tendency to believe in its ability to reveal some kind of truth and
either forget or ignore its ability to generate 'untruths'.

***

That said, an interesting exercise nonetheless begging my first question,
How does your impression of persons' M-B types figure into your reality?

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:16:20 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Anglican fiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Quick association to Spong.  I've always viewed Spong
as being a bit out there.  My Anglican beliefs are
more orthodox than his.  Yet I received new
appreciation of his efforts to get homosexual priests
accepted when the partner of the priest where I
attended church died of Aids.

I was on the Vestry at the time and recorded a lot of
the events on the church web page.  The archives can
be found at
http://members.home.com/ahynes1/stf/aids.htm

Aldon

Nancy Smith wrote:
>   Just finished reading the last third of "Here I
> Stand" by Bishop John
> Shelby Spong, whom the local pastor thinks is an
> iconoclast.
> (Interesting.  Someday I may read the first
> two-thirds!)
>   "Glittering..." may serve as a transitional book
> between non-fiction
> and before sleep reading :-)


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:19:08 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Either that, or I am easily confused...

As to the ability to appear E on-line.  Perhaps this
is a result of disinhibition on-line and people are
more E online.  Maybe that is why they call it Email.

Now if we were communicating via Instant Messenger,
'IM' I might guess you to be an 'I'.

Aldon

--- Sheryl Garner wrote:
> Looks like I must really be confusing, Aldon!
>
> But I'm actually INFP.
>
> I suspect it might be easier to appear to be an E
> on-line.
>
> Sheryl :)


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:21:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On a different list, there has been a discussion about
how people visualize the list.  There have been some
interesting results.  I wonder how people visualize
this list.

Aldon

--- Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ> wrote:
> Nancy,
>
> Psyber-ellish?  It is what ever you make of it.
> Mentioning books
> you feel as related or expressive of this group (or
> movies or
> music) is one for giving us a sense of the
> atmosphere your
> experience - as well as sharing our book habits.
>
> That is not to say it is all subjective... the
> atmosphere does
> exist in some way. In our associating the atmosphere
> with a book,
> music movie or painting it gives some body to our
> experience and
> creates something here too.
>
> I suppose it is like walking into a house, and
> looking at the
> books... it gives me a feel for the sort of place i
> am in and the
> people.  That would help choose a book as a present.
>
> I have a nice little cyberspace shelf, with some
> good books on it
> - yet they dont really relate to the feel here.  Nor
> do my
> jungian books.
>
> I'd want to add all of Robertson Davies books here -
> especially
> the trilogy with the jungian analysis in the middle
> book.  I also
> think there is something Psyber-ellish about A.S.
> Bayatt -
> personal lives with a focus on writing and words.


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:22:50 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: fiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Shakespeare?  My younger daughter is named Miranda.
She was born during a Tempest.

--- Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET> wrote:
> all,
>
> I'm not a big fiction reader these days. However,
> over the years I've
> usually chosen to interject Shakespearean references
> because, for me,
> Psyberia evokes a comedy of errors along the lines
> of Shakespeare's deep
> comedic dramas. (Think: The Tempest or Alls Well
> That Ends Well or A
> Midsummer Night's Dream.)
>
> So I feel around the gender-bending, masks,
> misplaced and mis-referred
> identities, projection, romantic confusion, and the
> turnarounds which
> allow, sometimes suddenly, all the mistakes to be
> dramatically righted.
>
> ***
>
> puckishly,
>
> Stephen


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:41:30 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

A year or so ago, a friend of mine who teachs a class
on Relations in Cyberspace, asked his students to form
impressions of people they met online.  They discussed
the impressions in papers and in class and it was all
summarized in a paper, Impression Formation in
Cyberspace: Online Expectations and Offline
Experiences in Text-based Virtual Communities
(http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol5/issue1/jacobson.html)

Generally, peoples impressions were not all that
accurate when it came to what people looked like.
Descriptions of me were all over the place.  They were
generally based on descriptions of people that the
students had met that I seemed similar to.

However, the impressions seemed fairly accurate in
terms of personality.  This has prompted me to talk
with the author about doing a followup study based on
some sort of personality test.  Myers-Briggs seems
like the most likely choice.  Hence, it seemed like an
interesting little experiment here.

All of that said, the question of how the impressions
fits into my reality is particularly interesting.  In
the same course, he talks about the SIDE theory,
Social Identity Deindivualization Effects.  As a good
starting point on this, I would suggest Normative
Influence and Emotionality in Computer-Mediated Groups
(http://www.pedanet.jyu.fi/cato/calive/sakhel.html)

I am not as well read in this area, but the assertion
is that when we interact in groups, we have social
identities and we respond to the social identity of
the others in the group.  Other aspects of our
identity which do not fit in with the groups identity
get suppressed.  All of this is based on our own
stereotypes of who we are interacting with.

To try and make this concrete, part of the identity of
this group seems to be an interest in experiences
online from a Jungian perspective.  From this
viewpoint, I am more inclined to discuss my thoughts
about Myers Briggs, than I am to discuss Melanie
Klein.  I am likely to emphasize my feeling state more
than my thought patterns.  I am likely to talk at a
more abstract level than I would on a list about
sports.  The examples can go on and on.

I am curious about how all of this sits with
everyone....

Aldon


--- Stephen Calhoun wrote:
> This is the most interesting -to me- facet of your
> informed guessing about
> peoples' types. How does your impression of persons'
> M-B types figure into
> your reality?


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:19:59 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Anglican fiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Aldon  and Walter, you two are providing a treasure trove of new reading
possibilities for me.  In the past the recommendations of others haven't
been too helpful.  But these seem well tailored.  Might this be in part
due to similarities of typology?
  By the way I'm keeping track of MB preferences as folk here mention
them thinking to post a list when either all or perhaps 2/3s have come
forward.
  I've dipped back into Spong and found myself having walked 'Through
the Looking Glass" to shades of my parent's marriage.  Apparently his
wife was paranoid for many years of their marriage.  She was rarely, if
ever institutionalized, but always felt the CIA was watching and
listening to her (she'd worked for the agency for a while).  Mostly he
let her lead her own life in their home where she was quite functional,
though leaving him very lonely for deep communion.
  I get the feeling typology was one root and that she was deeply
introverted, he much more extroverted.
  Being an autobiography, rather than fiction, like Walter's Archivist,
it doesn't carry the painful personal punch of reliving my own early
environment.  Also one gets only the husband's side.
  Still, after turning my back verbally on Walter's experience, I
thought it was interesting to find myself unexpectedly facing right back
into the storm through my own reading pursuits.
  Best to all,    Nancy

Aldon Hynes wrote:
>
> Quick association to Spong.  I've always viewed Spong
> as being a bit out there.  My Anglican beliefs are
> more orthodox than his.
> http://members.home.com/ahynes1/stf/aids.htm
>
> Aldon
>
> Nancy Smith wrote:
> >   Just finished reading the last third of "Here I
> > Stand" by Bishop John
> > Shelby Spong, whom the local pastor thinks is an
> > iconoclast.
> > (Interesting.  Someday I may read the first
> > two-thirds!)
>
> __________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:20:54 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Anita Konkka <anitak@MEGABAUD.FI>
Subject:      Re: fiction
In-Reply-To:  <p04330102b624779e2b26@[207.54.160.175]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi all,

It's been ages since we met on the screen.
     What a nice little coincidence! Stephen mentioned Shakespeare.  Last
week I began  to read  his works in the  original. Formerly I thought
that  it is too difficult to read them in English. But not at
all,  his  tongue is so living, so vivid and dynamic.  At first I read
The  Midsummer's Night Dream - of course.  We had here for some summers
ago  our own  Midsummer's  Dream Event. Methinks, that  Shakespeare's
comedy is  the most  Psyber-ish or-lish.
  It would be interesting to know why people are no  more " big fiction
readers".
      Speaking of the dialogue I'm  just about to finish a
diglot,  bilingual dialogue  with my French colleague. He is writing in
French, and I in English, or rather in Finglish, about
the  big  train  tour we  had together with 100 European
writers.  The  book  on the trip will be published next  autumn.
     I  think that without Psyber-l,  I mean, without the  experience
and  training  here, and especially in  the Dream  Event, I'd have not
ventured into writing the dialogue. It  was a highly  inspiring and
surprising joint venture.  And the final outcome is not like that we
expected or imagined in the beginning.

Titanialy
Anita

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:41:46 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Anita Konkka <anitak@MEGABAUD.FI>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
In-Reply-To:  <p04330100b62470fd9c1a@[207.54.160.175]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Salutation to all,

My comment on the Myers-Briggs  types discussion. It is  totally
abracadabra for me.  Sometimes I'm an ANT-J, sometimes INK-P  and
mostly  JERK- F.  I cannot understand what do  those abbreviations mean,
and how it is  possible  to  define  a human personality  with them.
I  daresay that it  is the objectification of an human being. It is not
exploring the Psyche.

Yours truly
Anita

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:02:38 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,
  Anita, I am tentatively puting you down as XNTX.
  Didn't we find an Internet site where some approximation of the
Myers-Briggs could be taken?  Does anyone remember?
  Jungs typology of the first thing to make an impression on me and to
be integrated.  In fact for a while I made a constant social nuisance of
myself by going around putting people 'in boxes' whether they had heard
of Jung or not.
  I still think it's interesting, but what has impressed me in recent
years is how different (and differing!) two individuals can be and still
fall within the same test gouping.
    Best,    Nancy

Anita Konkka wrote:
  Sometimes I'm an ANT-J, sometimes INK-P  and
> mostly  JERK- F.  I cannot understand what do  those abbreviations mean,
> and how it is  possible  to  define  a human personality  with them.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:29:30 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 10/31/00 8:21:57 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ahynes1@YAHOO.COM writes:

> On a different list, there has been a discussion about
>  how people visualize the list.  There have been some
>  interesting results.  I wonder how people visualize
>  this list.
>

I am the pumpkin, the face you/anyone carve is the one you will see, and I
come out most happily today, Halloween, when the veil between the worlds is
thin.  I love that I can light the darkest of places, where children walk and
sounds of the wind may eerily send chills down their spines.

My metaphors with pumpkins are endless, connections with Psyber-L and my
identification with pumpkins strong, psychically, so today, when there are so
many in delightfully endless disguises, I would like to ask,

In honor of Halloween, who would you be?  And, how would you like me to
visualize each of you?

Happy haunting, all!

(^.^)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:29:29 EST
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <PumpknSoul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/31/00 11:00:00 AM Mountain Standard Time,
anitak@MEGABAUD.FI writes:

> My comment on the Myers-Briggs  types discussion. It is  totally
>  abracadabra for me.  Sometimes I'm an ANT-J, sometimes INK-P  and
>  mostly  JERK- F.  I cannot understand what do  those abbreviations mean,
>  and how it is  possible  to  define  a human personality  with them.

A great smile of appreciation at your wit, Anita :)

A part of me too is reluctant to think of others, or myself in a
Meyers-Briggs type framework.  It so easily moves into a stereotypical
position and then it's as if people fit into clumps that define who *they*
are.  Certainly it reeks of statistics, modules, norms... one step away from
sticking one type as compared to another as mentally ill compared to mentally
healthy, another concept that strikes me as comical.  I don't think that
psyche and personality are the same.

But, that said, it is also a framework that might help give me a piece of a
picture of another, especially in a place like Psyber-L, a sort of
foundational piece of how another may view his/her world, when so much more
of my view of who is here is lacking.  What a tiny piece of each other we
really have!  And so just that little bit of framework might help me
understand who is here a little better.

I'm curious to see what Nancy's tally comes up with, about who is here.  And,
after all this time, I'm curious why are we here?  What do we each seek here,
searching for psyche in cyberspace?

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:22:59 -0800
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Nancy Smith <nsmith@NEGIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: The patterns that connect
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl Garner drew:
>
> (^.^)

  What a darling little 'pumpkinsoul'.  I just love her.  I have a
picture that I feel sort of represents my soul.  Can't reproduce it
here.  Looks a bit like a pixy half revealed, curled in a rose or
possibly half carved from some substance.  Definitely female.
  I have a problem with the Jungian notion of the animus as woman's
soul.  To me soul is female.  Male as soulmate is fine, but just doesn't
feel right as soul.
  Don't know how others feel about this.

  Also want to present to Sheryl for her pumpkin lore a very sensate
poem garnered by my father in a challege to one of his students:

With a warmth like a father's love, spiced as an Irish pun,
Soft as the purling summer stream, rich as the melting sun --
Like liquid velvet glide and mid my vitals lie,
Oh, glad were I to perish, while eating pumpkin pie.
          by  Ruth Earnshaw

  Be careful out there tonight folks,
             Nancy
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:37:34 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Meyers-Briggs ... again
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Nancy and all,

>   Didn't we find an Internet site where some approximation of the
> Myers-Briggs could be taken?  Does anyone remember?

The address is:  http://www.keirsey.com/

Just a reminder that the Meyers-Briggs (based on Jung's work on
Psychological Types (CW vol. 6) indicates the "resting" state between
polarities.  At no time is there an attempt to "label" a person.  I have a
very strong tendency to "I" introversion which is not evident to many with
whom I work as I "deliberately" move out of introversion in order to
function effectively as an administrator of a school.  I "deliberately" take
roles in various community groups.  Yet, I feel most at home in quiet,
involved with thought, reading, writing, and meditations.

Each of the letters are placed in pairs which are held in a state of
tension:
I <--------------> E
N<-------------> S
F <-------------> T
P <-------------> J
Each of us moves through the continuum of each pairing as we move through a
day and through our lives so that at a given moment we can be typified any
number of ways.  What needs to be remembered is the notion that the state of
rest position, the psyche's preferences, is what is being uncovered in the
Meyers-Briggs.

Of course, I may be way out of line here and need enlightenment from others
who know what I am just intuiting <smile>.

Robert

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