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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:59:26 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Extended introduction.
In-Reply-To:  <20000827213027.2547.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
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Aldon

  Re: [P] Extended introduction.
  Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:30:27 -0700



> What is different, for me, about this list is
> the focus on depth interaction.

I am glad you focussed on this word.  It is a little demon of a
word, because once we say something is deep it seems to loose it.
It is the everyday, the wide, the small that can be just as deep
as anything.  Yet it is a word that draws some of us together...
we dont want to be pretentious or clever or *deep*, but we like
depth! It is a sort of code word as you mention for:

> thoughts about Jung, myths, and
> archetypal images,

The trouble is of course that talking *about* these things is not
deep, being in them is deep - as long as we dont start saying it
is, which is shallow.

It is a bit like relationships.  If you are talking about the
relationship, then you are not having one.  If you dont talk
about the relationship, then you wont have one for long!

> all of which I know very little
> about and I look forward to learning more about this,
> especially experientially, online.

I imagine the *experience* in this group has been very rich for
you... heaps of silence to project into :) - with just enough
glimmerings and hints of the past and the potential to make it
annoying for you.  (I am imagining about you as you request).


>   As a final point, Walter pondered the boundaries
> between a home, a work group, and a therapy group.

Well, boundaries are something I like and am good at. But i am
not a fanatic though I get accused of that.  I have always liked
small places.  In my native Dutch there is a word for cosy -
"knuss" - the Dutch who all live on top of each other in a
terrible climate, have made a virtue out of necessity and have
words for the charms of being together in a small place.  All my
life "knuss" has had its appeal.  I like the place i am in now a
smallish log cabin (a house though, not a hut) tucked away in the
bush surrounded by trees - has elements of "knuss" - separate
from the rest of the world. I like camping with my wife Kate in
our small tent way out in the bush.

This group involves me letting you in, and introducing you.  It
also automatically removes people who do not post for 3 months
and who do not respond to the "keep me in the group" email. I
have a sense that this makes for a cosy group. The archives are
not public, you need to be in the group to see them.  Ok it is
not a vault, more like a basket, but the contours it has are what
they are. I think these things matter, they impact on our
unconscious, remind us of the womb.

>  I wonder about the desire to keep boundaries clear.
> This seems to conflict with the desire to integrate.

In this group these "cosy" aspects are a little at odds with it
being a "work" group and learning about the psyche in cyberspace
is a sort of work thing - I have certainly learnt a lot that I
put into practice professionally.

> Perhaps, for me, home is where my attention is,
> every group can be a work group if people choose to do
> the work, and a therapy group if people grow, from
> doing the work.

It does not fit for me, I can be fully attentive in may places,
but they feel like other peoples places, I feel like a "visitor"
or sometimes like a "specialist" - in the education group I am
involved with. Not really a sense of being at home.  This feels
home - maybe because i do have the key to the door (not the whole
story though) maybe because I feel at home with "psychobabble" -
mostly because I spend a lot of time here, and i return here.  I
feel they know me here.


Warm wishes,


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Harley Chambers
PO Box 13 543
Christchurch NZ
Phone: (643) 377 1206
Fax: (643) 377 1207
walter@psybernet.co.nz

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:41:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Associations to the reply at the extended introduction.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My deep rich experiences of this group:
You are right, Walter, there has been enough
discussion here for me to think there is great
potential for something (I am not sure what), and
enough silence for me to project into.

I liked the discussion about "knuss".  Last January, I
went to a Group Relations conference in Holland.  As I
read on, I find the comments about a log house.  I
also live in a log house, house surrounded by trees,
and having what I understand to be a great deal of
"knuss".

I also have imaginings of what the log house in the
south island of New Zealand would be like.  I went to
New Zealand on my first honeymoon, and I really liked
the place.  Too bad that marriage ended poorly.

So, will the others around here peek out from behind
the trees?  Or are they still to busy "playing" for
relaxation or learning?

Aldon


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:20:33 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      [P] Associations to the reply at the extended
              introduction.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hey Aldon
velcome velcome
> My deep rich experiences of this group:
> You are right, Walter, there has been enough
> discussion here for me to think there is great
> potential for something (I am not sure what), and
> enough silence for me to project into.

A soldier came marching down the road: one, two, one, two!=20
He had his gear on the back and his bayonet and gun at his hip,=20
he had been in the war, and now he was on his way home.
Then he met a old witch on the road; she was so disgusting,
her underlip hanged right down at her chest. She said:
"Good evening, soldier ! What a nice bayonet and gun You have and modern =
gear.=20
You are a really pro.soldier Now You can have all the money that You =
want

>=20
> I liked the discussion about "knuss".  Last January, I
> went to a Group Relations conference in Holland.  As I
> read on, I find the comments about a log house.  I
> also live in a log house, house surrounded by trees,
> and having what I understand to be a great deal of
> "knuss".
>=20

=20
  "Thank You  , You old witch" said the soldier."

  =20
> I also have imaginings of what the log house in the
> south island of New Zealand would be like.  I went to
> New Zealand on my first honeymoon, and I really liked
> the place.  Too bad that marriage ended poorly.
>=20
> So, will the others around here peek out from behind
> the trees?  Or are they still to busy "playing" for
> relaxation or learning?
>=20

"See the big tree" the Witch said and pointed at the
tree, that stood beside them. "Its hollow inside ! You shall
climb up to the top, there you will see a hole ,you can slide
down the hole and get deep deep deep down into the tree !
I will bind you a line around your hips, so I can drag You up again, =
when You call me !
   "What shall I do down there in the tree ?" said the soldier.
   "Get money !" said the witch," and here is the manual"
as she handed him a peace of paper.
    "Oh,! That's not bad at all! said the soldier. ,But what shall I =
give You in return, old witch ?=20
I Imaging that You want something in return, right ?"
    "No no no" said the witch, "not a penny do I want. You only have to =
bring back an old lighter
that my grandma forgot last time she was down there. !


  I dont know why I thought about this fairytale when i read You mail !!
 Interesting ,I always had this soldier story in my heart.!

 =20
  P.S  Thank You to all of You that Wrote to me when i was deep down
after the roskilde festival , I am about to get really creative and =
working
a lot again. phyyyvv. the band is playing ,the art is growing the group
at work is processing and at lot more........priority is the key word ,
but that is one thing i`m really bad at.=20

Bent




=20

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:16:54 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Associations to the reply at the extended introduction.
In-Reply-To:  <000401c01a93$2a473bc0$c9c361d4@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bent, Aldon,

Nice story Bent. I want to reply in kind, throw another story
into the email mix, but none come to mind... not a story anyway,
but just some feelings about the soldier.

I want it to be a wood cutter! I just dont like the image of a
soldier.  I am also a little worried that you see me in some sort
of autocrat. The image is extending to the movie Titus... heaven
forbid!

Bit it is nice that you peek in around from the trees. maybe we
are playing a sort of peek a boo.

I have been playing at learning as you said Aldon, and peeking in
here again. Some of my "playfulness" is in my weblog - see my
link below.

I seem to be enjoying my solitary playing. Of course Stephen
asked me to say more on play and that is not forgotten.

Lets keep extending Associations to the reply at the extended
introduction... that sounds like fun.

Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Web Log: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/psybernet_links.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:46:58 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: accessing playfulness
In-Reply-To:  <v04220802b5d02e902227@[207.54.160.38]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen

The question you ask below (I have appended your nice summary and
question) is interesting... and nothing really sprang to mind
when i read it the first time.  I would have to *work* at the
answer!

I still do really. One thought came to mind, that things i do
playfully require no will power. Another is that they are fun.
But then some play does require a bit of will and effort.  I am
not much into those sorts of games that require a lot of that,
but even some of the fun ones require a little work.

Sport requires a lot of work for me, so to get out and go rock
climbing rarely feels playful.

Strangely this email feels a little playful, not so much the
content as the "peeking out" from behind the bushes of the
silence.  Silences and then occasionally someone peeps out and
pipes up.  It has an element of playfulness and i sense some
tension, which is perhaps part of play, part of "a" play as in
theatre too. The dramatic process building up to some form of
climax and then resolution.  Music is like that too.  Rhythm...
perhaps rhythm unites my play... if not driven by will it keeps
its flow by rhythm.

The invitation to play... can be a rhythmical seductive little
dance... repeat any movement say, three times like raise eyebrows
3 x and the message is: lets change this pattern and have some
fun.


All for now,


Walter


~~~



> You've made *play* range widely. Allow me to interpret your answers by way
> of breaking down play into some categories.
>
> First, you described playing a game with Kate. Game play: for amusement and
> relaxation, and directed toward an outcome, yet not a particularly
> important outcome (in the scheme of things).
>
> Second, fun, exploratory play in the mode of 'trial and error' directed to
> understand how something works or at least reveal some its capabilities.
>
> (Question: if you gain some new knowledge in this kind of play, do you
> still feel you have "wasted time"?)
>
> Third, (as you put it, "important") play  "looking for the patterns and
> associations as a sort of play... I learn through play."
>
> Put this way, I get a sense this is very vitalizing for you.
>
> Fourth, non-competitive play which immerses you physically in a compelling
> environment/
>
> ***
>
> The next question is: in what way is play similarly and differently
> implicated in all of these different activities?
>
> ***
>
> playfully,
>
> Stephen

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:45:47 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Psybernet Weblog Update
Comments: To: group-l@lists.groupsense.co.nz, josh@zesty.com, Miles Thompson
          <miles@mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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=== Psybernet Notes and Links - Weblog -
=== An update

I have been working on my "weblog".  I have made links to books
with some comments and I write short items, for example on how
privacy, the net and the PSYCE might interrelate.

You may recall I used to use a system called editthispage and
then moved to blogger.  Blogger has the advantage of being
somewhat simpler, it does not aim to have discussions and I find
it easier to set up the page which is a simple HTML page.

I have just changed the address, as I rationalise my folders.  It
has its own folder called "weblog" the main page is the default
"index.html" so the address is:

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

I am doing research about online groups and the psyche in
cyberspace, and it is easy to put my references in the weblog. I
can highlight something on the web, right click it and it is
done! Archiving is automatic and each item has its own permanent
link.  The search engine on blogger is effective in retrieving
what I want. It will shortly have its own search engine.

If you have info that belongs there - email me and I'll add it.
I am also happy to put permanent links up to similar regularly
updated logs that have a psychological or group dynamics focus.


Let me know what you think!


Best wishes,

Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:33:02 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi in Psyber-L,

How about each person pose one question you would like to hear
others respond to.

Another thought...

How about mentioning this group exists to someone or somewhere
where it would be welcome:

the url:

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/psyber-l.htm


Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:36:18 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <5d2css86mohg5ikvpkd9clvcqmvaucalp6@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi again,

> one question you would like to hear
> others respond to.

What do you see, imaginally, in response to the word
"cyberspace".

I have a follow up question which i will post later.


Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:40:31 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Who is here.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi all,

While i am on the job, I had a look at who is here, with the
"review" command... here is who we are right now.


Walter


~~~

*
CMCPsych@AOL.COM           Sheryl Garner
hoon@APK.NET               Stephen Calhoun
judithb@APK.NET            Judith Buerkel
hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET      Charles Cameron
jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET     Janell Adair
dan@GROUPSENSE.CO.NZ       Dan Randow
sarina_simpson@HOTMAIL.COM Sarina Simpson
wkury@LARIAT.ORG           Wendell M Kury
bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK         Bent Bgedal Christoffersen
anitak@MEGABAUD.FI         Anita Konkka
malai@MOLDOVA.MD           Iurie Malai
nsmith@NEGIA.NET           Nancy Smith
utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ     Miles Thompson
jfadair9@PHILLY.INFI.NET   Janell Adair
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ     Walter Logeman
simon@SIMBIOSIS.COM        Simon G. Trask
aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA      Robert Longpre
01csn88888@SOON.COM        Barrett Culmback
rcarls2@UMBC.EDU           Rob Carlson
sswan@USD.EDU              Susan Swan
mcgee@WELL.COM             Art McGee
ahynes1@YAHOO.COM          Aldon Hynes
robinjaii@YAHOO.COM        Robin Jai
*
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:     23




______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:48:09 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      == Psyber-L:  Description & Information ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greetings again, the last for the night!

Here is the latest description of psyber-l.  I thought of this
while listening to a religious broadcast yesterday.  Two
ministers were discussing the difference between a "church" and a
"club" ... reminded me of the thoughts we were having here about
this being a discussion group or a "home".  Whatever we come up
with on that, this is what it says at this point about our
gathering - it is a long time since i posted it here.

All the best,

Walter

~~~


http://www.psybernet.co.nz/pl_descript.txt

== Psyber-L: A Psybernet Mailing List ==
== Description & Information ==
Updated:  10 June 2000


In this file you will find the following:

    = DESCRIPTION =

    = Purpose =
    = Networking =
    = Psyber-L Settings =
    = Listowner & Host =
    = Guidelines for Psyber-L Members =
    = How to send your posts to Psyber-L =
    = Psyber-L Web Interface =
    = Mail Management =


    = INFORMATION =

    = Subscribe and Unsubscribe to Psyber-L:
    = The Psybernet Web Pages =
    = Access to Psyber-L Files via Email =



= DESCRIPTION =

Psybernet was formed in 1993 to offer professional psychological
services on the Internet.  The Psyber-L mailing list grew out of
the need to learn more about and experience first hand the
potential of the net, especially how online group interaction
effects the psyche.  Psyber-L is a starting point for depth
psychological work on the net, and also a place for exploring and
defining its directions.


= Purpose =

The purpose of Psyber-L is to learn experientially about the
psyche in cyberspace. As all online discussion contributes to the
unfolding of the psyche a wide range of topics is suitable.
Participants are encouraged to make posts about the process and
how the psyche manifests and can be nurtured in cyberspace. The
comment and learning is not kept separate from the discussion, it
forms an integral part of it.

The list is an environment in which its participants can
experiment and learn from experience about the scope of online
interaction for ethical psychological depth work.  Psyber-L is
forum for individual experiential research, it is requested that
the list is not used for academic or other research.

To give a sense of the intended direction of the discussions,
here is a sampling of topics that have been, and continue to be
discussed on the list.  There is a continued focus on how these
psychological phenomena relate to cyberspace:

        depth psychology
        leadership in communication networks
        creating communication environments
        gender issues
        imagination
        metaphors
        archetypes
        dreams
        myths
        personal identity
        psychotherapy
        the unconscious
        group dynamics.

Etiquette, ethos and ethics of the list have an impact on the
psychological nature of it, and hence are suitable topics for
discussion in the list.  Below in the Information section of this
file you will find links to the key people and ideas that inspire
the work of this list.  These files are mentioned to give you a
sense of the scope of Psyber-L.


= Networking =

Relationships of a collegial nature around our psychological net
interests is an important part of the work. This has developed to
the point where, at times, there is a sense of community
building. The value, direction and purpose of the emerging
connections are suitable topics for discussion.


= Psyber-L Settings =

The parameters of the list are set by the list owner, any changes
to the settings will be clearly notified in the list.  Current
settings:


* Psyber-L membership is monitored by the Listowner.  There is no
  vetting or verification of identity.  Prospective members are
  asked to be familiar with this file, Psyber-L.Descript, and to
  indicate their interest in Psyber-L.

* The list is unmoderated, in the sense that all messages are
  instantly posted, and not previewed in any way.  With
  discretion the listowner can review posts, this would not be
  done without notification of the person(s) concerned.

* Archives:  Note that everything you say on Psyber-L will
  be in a permanent archive and will not be removed once posted.
  The archive is available to members only.

* The list of members can be requested by members only.
  Concealment on this list is not an option, as concealed members
  are set to non-concealed regularly.

* The list is set to filter out HTML and other attachments.


= Listowner & Host =

The list is "owned" by Walter Logeman, that's me.  I am a
psychotherapist in private practice in Christchurch, New Zealand
and the founder of the Psybernet project. I pay for the means of
its existence, and I have access to change the settings.  I am
responsible for this Psyber-L.Descript file the INFO and WELCOME
files that define Psyber-L.  I can change these files at any
time, however I only do so with discussion and notification in
Psyber-L.  I am the "Host", in that role I introduce new members
and ensure we have an environment conducive to the purpose of
Psyber-L.

I am a participant in the discussions.

How I juggle the three roles:  Listowner, Host and Participant
may have a profound impact on the psychological life of Psyber-L.
Discussion of the listowner, host and other roles and styles is
an important aspect of learning about the psyche.  I may be
absent at times, and there is no guarantee I will read every post
immediately.  I rarely enter into extended discussion outside the
list about matters that could be discussed in the list.  However,
please note:

Should there be matters that you consider require the attention
of the Listowner, matters that simply writing to the list will
not achieve, please send a cc to me or email me directly.  I give
personal email a priority and there are times it is important I
am involved as Listowner.


= Guidelines for Psyber-L members =

* Personal attacks or threats are not welcome.

* Ownership of your words: In Psyber-L your words remain your
  property. Please do not use other people's posts outside the
  list without their permission.  If the writer can not be
  contacted discuss permission with the Listowner.  Please notify
  the Listowner if material is to be used off-list.

* Topics:  Feel free to start a new topic.  This is done by using
  a new Subject: line in your posts. It is best if they relate to
  the purpose of the list, however it is very broad.

* Privacy:  Private emails are not to be quoted in Psyber-L
  without permission from the writer.

* Quoting: Please keep quoting from earlier emails (using the >
  sign) to a minimum.  Quote enough to put your response in
  context. Please do not use more than two generations of quoting
  (>>).

* Please send all posts in plain text, without attachments.  The
  server software has been set to filter attachments, including
  HTML attachments generated by some email programs.

* If you are setting out text for a graphical effect or as a
  table please use a fixed pitch font such as Courier New, 10pt

* Netiquette: If you are not familiar with the basics of
  etiquette on the Internet please check out or ask in Psyber-L.


= How to send your posts to Psyber-L =

To send an email that will be distributed to the list send it to:

Psyber-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM


= Psyber-L Web Interface =

http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

Psyber-L has a useful interface on the web.  You can read all the
posts, write new ones or reply.  You can also change your
settings there.  There is an excellent search facility which
means Psyber-L is an extensive knowledge base.  Note that if you
are away from your own machine you can still access the list on
anyone's computer, although there are some instructions to
follow for security.  You can participate fully via the web and
not use email at all by setting the list to NOMAIL.


= Mail Management =

Sometimes the list has many posts each day. To keep track of the
discussions it is recommended that you file the posts in a
mail folder you create for Psyber-L.

I recommend you create a filter to automatically move the mail
into the Psyber-L folder as it arrives.

You can also set the list to a digest option which
puts all the posts from that day in one email.  Not recommended
as you do not readily see subject and author lines.  Makes
replying to one post more work.

The list is set so that each post has [P] in the subject line.
You can turn this off if you wish with a SET command, or from the
web interface. You receive copies of the posts you make, this is
also something you can change.

All of the guidelines will be repeated in the Welcome file


= INFORMATION =

= Subscribe and Unsubscribe to Psyber-L: =

Send a command to:

LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM

in the BODY of email:

SUBSCRIBE PSYBER-L yourfirstname yourlastname

For example:

SUBSCRIBE PSYBER-L Jenny Smith

Once you have subscribed to the list, you will receive further
instructions, please respond to those.

To leave Psyber-L, send an email to:

LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM

In the body of the email write:

SIGNOFF  PSYBER-L

~~~

Subscription can be made from the Web at:

http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

You can also monitor all your setting from there.



= The Psybernet Web Pages =

http://www.psybernet.co.nz

You will see the Psybernet Motif, click on through to find files
on Depth Psychology and on Key Ideas and Key People that will
give an indication of the ethos of Psyber-L.

Psyber-L has its own page there which has links to some of the
files mentioned here.

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/psyber-l.htm



= Access to Psyber-L Files via Email =

It is useful to become familiar with sending commands to the
listserver. Feel free to try them out.  The listserver (the
machine that does all this work) has the following address, you
may wish to add it to your Address Book, note that it is
*different* from the one used to send your posts to the list (see
above):

LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM

Send following commands in the body of the email to the listserv
to get files sent back via email:

INDEX  PSYBER-L
    This will return an index of all the files, including the
    archives of the list.

GET PSYBER-L WELCOME
    Automatic upon subscription, & available at any time.

GET PSYBER-L DESCRIPT
    This file.  Latest version can be obtained with this command.
    This file is the main description of the list.  It is
    requested that all members are familiar with this file.

INFO PSYBER-L
    The short list Description, useful to send to prospective
    list members.

INDEX PSYBER-L
    You get a list of files that are available.

SUBSCRIBE PSYBER-L yourfirstname yourlastname

SIGNOFF  PSYBER-L
    To leave Mailing List at any time.

HELP  PSYBER-L
    More commands you can send. Get this one for information on
    how to customise your settings.

REVIEW  PSYBER-L
    Will give you a list of all the people who are on the list.

~~~

If you have a problem with the PSYBER-L list, write to the list
owners at the generic address:

PSYBER-L-request@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM

or contact

Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:39:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Okay.  Perhaps here are the questions that is most
obvious in my mind:

Why is everyone silent?  Why are people on this list
in the first place?  On a different list I am on,
people have spoken about silience as coming from
resistence to dealing with some of the topics that
have been discussed.  Did something come up here
before I joined that caused people to shut down?  Have
people looked at my picture on the web and are afraid
of speaking in the presence of a long haired bearded
freak?

The only topic I have heard discussed other than my
own arrival and the silence has been a little bit
about playfulness.  Is everyone to busy or serious to
be playful or think about playfulness?

Is there something stifling in the description of this
list that Walter sends out?

Have I asked too many questions?

Aldon

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:39:10 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <20000918143957.15484.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Aldon, all,

Hi. I'd like to give you some of my impressions in response to your
questions.

Last question, first! "Have I asked too many questions?"

Speaking for myself, the answer is no. However, one could ask too many
questions I suppose. One measure of that would be to count the ones that
don't inspire a response.

***

>Why is everyone silent?

This may be the most long-standing question. It's kind of like a bubble
that floats in our space here. Sometimes it's central, other times on the
periphery; sometimes big and about to burst, other times small and stable.

There isn't clear cut answer to this question. Of our 23 members, a quick
count reveals 16+ have posted at one time or another, 13 I would consider
veterans of expressing themselves here. It's worth noting for this core
group there is a lot of shared experience of Psyber-L's ongoing narrative.

I've been on the list since late 1995.

***

Why am I here? I'm here to see what happens. To be a part of whatever the
next chapter is of our exploration. As I've mentioned before in response to
this same question, I'm committed to be here and engage the 'state' of the
group where it's at.

I don't have a big expectation of Psyber-L doing this or doing that.
Psyber-L has long been somewhat irregular in it's level of inspiration.
Inspiration best measured, in my view, simply by the level of daily
engagement. (I make no judgement now about the quality of what goes on, or
does not go on, here on Psyber-L day in and day out.)

*Critical mass* is, to me, the engagement of two or more participants in an
active thread. With respect to the level of daily activity, it is an
inspired critical mass if and when the thread(s) are sustained to the
satisfaction of the participants.

Roughly, it can be measured by a satisfying quantity of thread-making.

***

I'd like to feed back to you you considering your interpretive questions.

"Did something come up here before I joined that caused people to shut
down?"

I do not know. If it is true people are 'shut down' then I would assume it
may be for reasons having to do with what had occurred here, or,
alternately, for reasons having nothing to do with Psyber-L.

(I can only compare Psyber-L to the two other lists I am similarly
committed to. Psyber-L shares some of the same elements of intense waxing
and waning as one of the lists; the third list has always been very active.)

***

Have people looked at my picture on the web and are afraid of speaking in
the presence of a long haired bearded freak?

I doubt that many people have looked at your picture, Aldon! Speaking as a
short-haired, bearded, freak (old beardless, picture:
http://junior.apk.net/~hoon/hoon_biz.html ) I would hope my appearance
isn't an obstacle.

***

"Is everyone to busy or serious to be playful or think about playfulness?"

Perhaps some are too busy and/or too serious, but there are probably lots
of reasons why this particular thread is of limited interest. I just have
no idea what those reasons are; "it's uninteresting" is a good enough
reason if any Psyberians feel so.

***

"Is there something stifling in the description of this list that Walter
sends out?"

I cannot answer this one. I boil down the description to this: engagement
of experiential learning prospects in a small email discussion group tuned
by a mutual interest in the personal and collective psyche.

This description geared toward my own purposes reveals more about my own
biases than it accurately interprets the current state of the list
description. I figure this is a right of a long time member!

***

regards,

Stephen

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:04:41 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <20000918143957.15484.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Aldon, all,

Here is my attempt at responding to questions>


>
>
>Why is everyone silent?
> Why are people on this list
>in the first place?  On a different list I am on,
>people have spoken about silience as coming from
>resistence to dealing with some of the topics that
>have been discussed.  Did something come up here
>before I joined that caused people to shut down?  Have
>people looked at my picture on the web and are afraid
>of speaking in the presence of a long haired bearded
>freak?

I can only speak of my experience of the silence which emerges here
on this list...the "whys" are probably as many as there are people
and where they are at anytime in their lives and priorities...my
experience of this space for me is like a home base...I unlike others
here who belong to other lists  are a single list belonger
<grin>...this is a home base for me in cyberspace and through the
years I have been here, I have been supported in a most loving and
caring manner  particularly through some very intense physical
challenges...

We have spoken of the silences often here, but I experience them as a
natural part of the ebb and flow of life...and in fact often feel
more connected here during our conversational lulls, than during some
exchanges

My experience is that those here have very full and need I say
interesting lives which often are brought "back" here as Anita has
with her train traveling writing group (which I am very envious of
BTW)... I don't experience the silences as shut down...and in fact
one of the most lively and challenging times here was one of the most
sustained period of exchange during my time here


>
>Is there something stifling in the description of this
>list that Walter sends out?


I would really ask that of you and others who signed on here...I
haven't read the description for a few years <grin>

>
>Have I asked too many questions?

"Too many" seems to be a good number...BTW I haven't peeked at your
picture, Aldon.

Blessings to all,
Judith

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:52:11 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <20000918143957.15484.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Aldon

> silience as coming from
> resistence to dealing with some of the topics that
> have been discussed.

I dont think that's it on this occasion.  Here is one take I
have:

I think there is silence because we are such individualists.  A
bunch of creators.  If it was not for the net we'd never be
together at all! We do our own thing.  There is little to be here
for until we do something that unites us and that is often hard
to find.

When we have done things together it is in other places
sometimes.

Right now i am working hard on writing about  Groupwork Online...
I have posted a myriad of stuff in my weblog on "Communities of
Practice" and on "Learning Online" just in the last 24 hours or
so.  I'm loving it.  I would love to discuss this stuff...
however i have found about 20 groups that discuss all of this,
and I dont want to join more groups.  In fact, reading and
searching archives of public groups is ample for me to learn this
stuff.

I don't really expect to discuss my passion of the details in the
moment here either... at least i dont expect it to match that of
others.

I'd like to hear about other people's passion and especially
*here* as i know the people, and so it has become a sort of home,
and the people are more relevant than the topics.

> Have
> people looked at my picture on the web and are afraid
> of speaking in the presence of a long haired bearded
> freak?

How do i get to that picture? Maybe it is *my*  picture that is
problem!

> Is there something stifling in the description of this
> list that Walter sends out?

Probably... I hardly ever post it here though.  I think it needs
a refresh and to be shortened to one screenful at most, with a
few links.  It began its life before the days of links!

> Have I asked too many questions?

Ask more if you ask me!

I would like to hear your answer to my question though, I'll post
it again... that question is the one that gets me!


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:54:42 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Seeing Cyberspace
In-Reply-To:  <ot2csso9976gmu440tlb1bc3d90lr376ju@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am asking this again, just so I can give it a Thread title of
its own, it was:

  Re: [P] Critical mass of people and posts?
  Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:36:18 +1200


> What do you see, imaginally, in response to the word
> "cyberspace".
>
> I have a follow up question which I will post later.


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:06:33 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <v04210102b5ec5a4213e5@[207.54.160.219]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

JB,

As always nice to have your presence here.

> and in fact often feel
> more connected here during our conversational lulls, than during some
> exchanges

That is incredible really, and it in its own way answers the
"Cyberspace" question i have asked.

At the extreme then the most connected group will be one with no
list, no posts, no buildings, just a platonic ideal. How do we
distinguish such a group from one that has simply fallen apart
and into disuse... decayed ....


these words come to mind:



1     A slumber did my spirit seal;
2         I had no human fears:
3     She seemed a thing that could not feel
4         The touch of earthly years.

5     No motion has she now, no force;
6         She neither hears nor sees;
7     Rolled round in earth's diurnal course,
8         With rocks, and stones, and trees.





______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:04:45 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Seeing Cyberspace
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Walter Logeman asked: "What do you see, imaginally, in
response to the word "cyberspace"."

I have a bunch of thoughts and reactions to this.  My
first thought is of a paper that a friend of mine in
cyberspace wrote.  The topics were 'Impression
formation in Cyberspace' in the Journal of Computer
Mediated Communications
(http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol5/issue1/jacobson.html).

Another paper that comes to mind is 'At the Heart of
It All: The Concept of Presence' also in the
JCMC(http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol3/issue2/lombard.html).

Yet this is an intellectualization of what is going
on.  What is more telling is perhaps my phrases at the
beginning of this message, 'a friend of mine in
cyberspace':  What does that really mean?

I have recently stumbled across the Sociologist's
realm of Social Networks.  The concept that is talked
about there is of the strength of connection between
people, weak ties and strong ties.  There is also the
question of how these ties are maintained.

To pull all of these thoughts together, my main idea
of cyberspace is the set of connections between people
as they communicate via email, chats, the web etc.  It
is the sense of connectedness that JB mentions and
Walter affirms.

So to my question about silence:  I don't have much of
a connection between people here, with the exception
of Walter, and without that the silence isn't as
powerful.

Enough of my thoughts.  Hopefully it will stimulate
others.

Aldon

__________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:12:34 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Aldon and all,

So the silence has once again broken.  I must commend you Walter for posting
in a manner that appears to be drawing us out of our exterior lives into
this cyber-life.  Aldon, you asked:

> Why is everyone silent?  Why are people on this list
> in the first place?

Well, the obvious does come to mind, busy exterior lives for the most part.
I imagine that being comfortable sitting in silence is another good answer
for a few here as well.  Why am I on this list?  I have been here since
early 1996 being drawn here by mention of Carl Jung.  I have developed a
history here with others, a history that is not so easily abandoned with an
"unsubscribe" command.  I would suggest that you might better be able to get
an answer to your question by rummaging through the archives.  Better yet,
hang in here for a few years and wrestle as we have done with the ebb and
flow of cyber-dialogue.

>  On a different list I am on,
> people have spoken about silience as coming from
> resistence to dealing with some of the topics that
> have been discussed.  Did something come up here
> before I joined that caused people to shut down?

Not that I am aware of, Aldon.  Perhaps this was so for a few but I suspect
that if this was the case, they are no longer members of this
cyber-community.  We had engaged in a couple of intense "activities" which
naturally seems to have lead to a period of "retreat" that was well earned
from a "psyche" point of view.

> Have
> people looked at my picture on the web and are afraid
> of speaking in the presence of a long haired bearded
> freak?

Sorry, I haven't looked at your photo.  I was a long-haired, bearded freak
for many decades beginning in the sixties so I doubt that such a sight would
make me afraid <smile>.

> Have I asked too many questions?

Not in my opinion.  Have a good day and I hope that these responses that
have come to your post help you to gain a better perspective of this place
called PSYBER-L.

Robert

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:44:57 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Seeing Cyberspace
In-Reply-To:  <20000919130445.29506.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Aldon,

Thanks for these links Aldon... interesting to me.

> (http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol5/issue1/jacobson.html).
>
> Another paper that comes to mind is 'At the Heart of
> It All: The Concept of Presence' also in the
> JCMC(http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol3/issue2/lombard.html).
>
> Yet this is an intellectualization of what is going
> on.

Not all that intellectual at the point where the first article
goes into this:

"Six informants provided the following images of aldon."  heheh


The second article I like the notions of

"You are There" / "It is here" / "We are Together" (Shared Space)

I've only been skimming but just those word are evocative.

I have a sense of "going somewhere", always to North America
always California.  It is as if Cyberspace is in California.
Damn.  It is as if we meet from all over the world, but in San
Francisco.

It is a sort of muddied SF though. It is permanently night time.
There is no neon but a more 1930's feel to the night. Somewhat
Art Deco, hotel lobbies come to mind (again) a little like this

http://192.41.13.240/artchive/h/hopper/hopper_hotel_lobby.jpg

I am imagining some sort of hole to go through as well, perhaps
like in the movie "Being John Makovich" where we go through a
secret door on the seventh and a half floor. There are no
children or old people (ie older than about 65)

In my image of cyberspace the place is not at all "digital" with
strange special effects.  It would be possible though to catch a
glimpse of Pan playing the flute and then scuttling off.

Anyway, just to note that "I go there" and I need to let my
"active imagination" free flow to see where i go.


Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:20:37 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Aldon
ALL what theres been said about it until now is what I=20
agree upon totally. If the the time was there I would have
written something of my own ,thats my way of beeing here
sometimes I spent a lot of time in the group sometimes I
dont, but I do what I can . at least read what comes in.
 the only question I sometimes ask is :
 Are the  list after all theese years starting to die ?
 I cant remember when I joined ,where can i find out ?

 I think that the list depends on what the members can do
 What energy there is for the time beeing. Who will
come up with the next light ,who has the spirit to "rock the list
with something that could shake the whole thing" ?? and make
everybody to stand on there toes ?
 And Aldon I have not seen You Where can I see You ??
 And was it hoon   the link did not work.
 and me http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb  since that picture
I have grown much longer hair and cut it again. New pics later.

bent

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:29:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

For those who haven't found my picture yet, take a
look at members.home.net/ahynes1  It is a fairly
recent picture, but the links are old and need work.

I also have an association to Walter's comment about
visualizing cyberspace as being in the SF area.  One
of my favorite hangouts in cyberspace is place called
LambdaMOO, which is modelled after the house of the
creator in the SF area.  Perhaps knowing that so much
internet stuff started in the SF area adds to this
conception.

As a side comment, it makes me think of what people
used to say about AI.  When they create machines have
AI, they will resemble their creators.  And everyone
knows what a weird bunch AI researchers are.

Enough for now.

Comments?
Aldon

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:25:05 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      This Rocks
In-Reply-To:  <000601c02266$4fe218c0$dfdb61d4@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bent

You wrote:

>  I think that the list depends on what the members can do
>  What energy there is for the time beeing. Who will
> come up with the next light ,who has the spirit to "rock the list
> with something that could shake the whole thing" ?? and make
> everybody to stand on there toes ?

The question rocks I reckon.  Put me on my toes, as did Aldon's
probe re the Description of Psyber-L.

Make this a Home group (invitation only), start new groups: a
Probe Group + a Therapy Group + a Theatre group + Performance
group and a Story group, and a Papermaking and other meditations
group.

Something fresh and new, yet keeping a link with the past.

>  And Aldon I have not seen You Where can I see You ??
>  And was it hoon   the link did not work.
>  and me http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb  since that picture
> I have grown much longer hair and cut it again. New pics later.

Hey nice site there Bent.  A handsome man!  A rock star... love
all that old music.

Got me getting some with Napster.

"My biggest problem is "there is not enough time". -- know the
feeling.


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:51:28 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <ot2csso9976gmu440tlb1bc3d90lr376ju@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> What do you see, imaginally, in response to the word
> "cyberspace".

A Unix prompt, because that's what I've seen for years to associate with
the Internet and the movement of information.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://web.vees.net/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:53:08 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <5d2css86mohg5ikvpkd9clvcqmvaucalp6@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> How about each person pose one question you would like to hear
> others respond to.

Do you ever really think about how we are communicating with no regard
for a really linear timeline?  What physical image gets conjured up when
you think about communication on this list (or any list)?

Rob

--
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:11:22 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <20000918143957.15484.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:

> Why is everyone silent?  Why are people on this list
> in the first place?  On a different list I am on,
> people have spoken about silience as coming from
> resistence to dealing with some of the topics that
> have been discussed.

For me, life got busy and I got silent.  I was actually looking at this
folder with dread for a while since I always have to think a little
deeper for this list (and get a little more touchy-feely than I'm used
to), and I just wasn't in that sort of mood among all the work projects
going on around me.

Rob

--
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:15:04 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <mmgdss8pnhu8kskkbdnkci156n7v5g6t3c@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> I think there is silence because we are such individualists.  A
> bunch of creators.  If it was not for the net we'd never be
> together at all! We do our own thing.  There is little to be here
> for until we do something that unites us and that is often hard
> to find.

I can agree with that.  When things got tough, I lost myself as much in
my technical play as I did in work.  I did come out with some nice
weblogs and expressive forums of my own, and just added AvantGo support
so my friends can load up my latest thoughts on their handheld devices
and take them along during the day.

Check it out, if you get a chance:

  My old, friendly page:

    http://epistolary.org/rob/

  My wierder page, mostly aimed at my nihlistic friends, but with the
same stuff on it (it comes from the same article database):

    http://vees.net/dobie/

  My index of stuff about me:

    http://vees.net/

Tell me what you think of my efforts, and some of the pictures....

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:54:58 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009201350510.13511-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

> A Unix prompt, because that's what I've seen for years to associate with
> the Internet and the movement of information.

That is not the C:/ of DOS is it, what does it look like?

I imagine that it is not just a few pixels and that it functions
more like a bell to one of Pavlov's dogs.

Do you salivate?  if so, what are you expecting to experience...
not more pixels surely?


Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:04:56 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Rob -
   I like your web page.  If I wasn't rushing out the
door, I would look at it more closely and then have a
better post.  Maybe tomorrow....



Aldon
--- Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:
>
> > I think there is silence because we are such
> individualists.  A
> > bunch of creators.  If it was not for the net we'd
> never be
> > together at all! We do our own thing.  There is
> little to be here
> > for until we do something that unites us and that
> is often hard
> > to find.
>
> I can agree with that.  When things got tough, I
> lost myself as much in
> my technical play as I did in work.  I did come out
> with some nice
> weblogs and expressive forums of my own, and just
> added AvantGo support
> so my friends can load up my latest thoughts on
> their handheld devices
> and take them along during the day.
>
> Check it out, if you get a chance:
>
>   My old, friendly page:
>
>     http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
>   My wierder page, mostly aimed at my nihlistic
> friends, but with the
> same stuff on it (it comes from the same article
> database):
>
>     http://vees.net/dobie/
>
>   My index of stuff about me:
>
>     http://vees.net/
>
> Tell me what you think of my efforts, and some of
> the pictures....
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org
> http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:04:26 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Play
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

Just cam across the following in an article by David L Miller

THE BRICOLEUR INTHE TENNIS COURT:
PEDAGOGY IN POSTMODERN CONTEXT

http://web.utk.edu/~unistudy/ethics96/dlm1.html

I enjoyed the following snippet as it has some relevance to our
discussions and also to the hipbone games.


Walter


~~~~


There may seem an implicit should and why, if not a because in my
remarks. There may seem a recommendation that we should play. If
it seems so, then there is an irony. If the should is felt, then
it is not yet the point of the ethics of the bricoleur. Let me
tell you a story.

In 1969, I had written a book on play entitled Gods and Games:
Toward a Theology of Play. It included a brief commentary on the
philosophical analysis of the notion of play by the Heidelberg
philosopher, Hans-Georg Gadamer.

Not long after the book's publication, Gadamer came to be a
visiting professor at Syracuse University where I was teaching.
Every Thursday afternoon, after his seminar on Aristotle, he and
I would go to a local country club bar to drink German beer and
to talk. I knew that he had read my book, and it is not difficult
to imagine my growing anxiety when week after week went by
without him saying a word to me about it.

Finally, after many weeks--what seemed an eternity to a young
professor in the thrall of a wise mentor--he turned to the topic
of my book. I was full of fear and trepidation, as it turned out
that well I should have been. He said: "Professor Miller, you
almost got the point!" I was crushed! What was wrong? It did
little good for him to aver that it was not entirely my fault.
"English," he explained, "has a doublet for the idea: play, the
verb, and game, the noun, are different words in English, whereas
German says it with one and the same word, ein Spiel spielen, as
does French, jouer un jeu." So, he explained to me that I had
wrongly thought that play has something to do with fun and games.
"Very American!" he said in a way that was not at all reassuring.

So what was the point of play? Gadamer asked me if I rode a
bicycle. I said that I did. Then he asked me about the front
wheel, the axle, and the nuts. He remarked that I probably knew
that it was important not to tighten the nuts too tightly, else
the wheel could not turn. "It has to have some play!" he
announced pedagogically and a little exultantly, I thought. And
then he added, " . . . and not too much play, or the wheel with
fall off." "You know," he said, "Spielraum."


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:01:31 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <pp8issobqms75ugmr6mf0kmb1sqdm573v6@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> That is not the C:/ of DOS is it, what does it look like?

$

But it varies depending on the system.  It's mostly situational.  If I'm
staring at a black screen with green text, I feel like a pioneer all
over again.

> I imagine that it is not just a few pixels and that it functions
> more like a bell to one of Pavlov's dogs.

In fact it's no more than 64 pixels, usually.

> Do you salivate?  if so, what are you expecting to experience...
> not more pixels surely?

Just communication, I suppose.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:14:32 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <20000920220456.11980.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:

> Rob -
>    I like your web page.  If I wasn't rushing out the
> door, I would look at it more closely and then have a
> better post.  Maybe tomorrow....

Thanks!  And don't worry, it'll still be there.

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:42:19 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      The Natural Life Cycle Of Mailing Lists - a reference
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

This may be of interest:
http://catalog.com/vivian/life-cycle.html

It may have some accuracy... though i think the topic is more
interesting than the answer provided here.



Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:39:30 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Rob's Websites
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009201612430.15512-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob,

Re: [P] Critical mass of people and posts?

> I can agree with that.  When things got tough, I lost myself as much in
> my technical play as I did in work.

When things got tough?

> I did come out with some nice
> weblogs and expressive forums of my own, and just added AvantGo support
> so my friends can load up my latest thoughts on their handheld devices
> and take them along during the day.

Count me one... I have it coming onto my Palm IIIx via Avantgo.
Looks good.  I have a problem with Avantgo.  I cant cut & pate
snippets onto my Memo, to me this means i have the frustration of
reading a book on paper... I cant quote bits, save bits.  Of
course i can go back to the Web, that is the consolation.  What
is the url for the handheld version of your weblog?  I could then
get it via isolo web - they have a copy facility.  Mind you it
does not to the auto updates... so I dont have what i want in
either case!

>   My old, friendly page:
>
>     http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
>   My wierder page, mostly aimed at my nihlistic friends, but with the
> same stuff on it (it comes from the same article database):

Rob, I like the friendly one!  Damn I would fancy myself weird
and a touch nihilistic.

>     http://vees.net/
>
> Tell me what you think of my efforts, and some of the pictures....

Great efforts... intrigued by your Swatch protests and the many
interests you have.  Couldn't find a picture of you though.

I'll put a link on my weblog to yours.


All the best,


Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:07:06 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Just communication
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009211900080.29018-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

Re: [P] Critical mass of people and posts?

> > Do you salivate?  if so, what are you expecting to experience...
> > not more pixels surely?
>
> Just communication, I suppose.

You are so dry!  Just communication.  As I look at your site and
lists of friends and so on, I see you entering into a vast
network.

You have a list of quotes that rotate into the weblog?  The one i
just saw was:

*** Topic on #solaris: Q: ^.*Linux.*?$ A: No.

Just communication i suppose?

Reminds me of this:

FUNEX?
SVFX
FUNEM?
SVFM
OKM&X please.


~~~

Your quotes are a delight.

Heaven and Hell are the same place. It's Heaven if you like it
there, Hell if you don't.


Are they RC originals?


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:15:38 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Just communication
In-Reply-To:  <nbjqsskhpe0csq5h2apajc2e0devuo70oe@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> > Just communication, I suppose.
>
> You are so dry!  Just communication.  As I look at your site and
> lists of friends and so on, I see you entering into a vast
> network.

Don't get me wrong, communication means a lot to me.  In fact it's
the reason I study what I do and work in the job that I am now.

> You have a list of quotes that rotate into the weblog?  The one i
> just saw was:
>
> *** Topic on #solaris: Q: ^.*Linux.*?$ A: No.
>
> Just communication i suppose?

On the Solaris channel, a lot of new Linux folks come in and try to ask
questions about their own operating system.  Like, can Linux do this or
that.  That's a geek way of saying if between the start of the sentence
(^) and the end of the sentence ($), if there's a question mark right
near the end (?$), and there's any number of characters on either side
of the word Linux (.*Linux.*), the answer is probably No, and go away,
thanks.

Yes, it's esoteric, but most of the people showing up to talk to me
usually understand and enjoy it.

> Heaven and Hell are the same place. It's Heaven if you like it
> there, Hell if you don't.
> Are they RC originals?

They're all up at:

  http://epistolary.org/rob/oldquotes.txt

It rotates randomly (thanks to a script that my girlfriend wrote for me
in Perl a while back) through them as you pull up the page.  I
attributed where I could.  Probably a couple of web searches could
attribute them all, but it's not that important.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Sep 2000 19:28:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Aldon Hynes <ahynes1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Just communication
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Does the Perl script run on Solaris or Linux?

I guess, based on the construct of that question, the
answer must be No.  Since we have ruled out Solaris or
Linux, I guess Rob must be using NT.  I am a bit
surprised at that....

If a Perl script is used to put the quotes on the web,
and you don't know who is reading them, do you run the
risk of casting Perl's before swine?

With Perl being a weak typed language, can you even
cast a variable in Perl?

Enough random thoughts.  I hope the playfulness which
which they were intended is appreciated.

Aldon

--- Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU> wrote:
> > *** Topic on #solaris: Q: ^.*Linux.*?$ A: No.
> >
> > Just communication i suppose?
>
> On the Solaris channel, a lot of new Linux folks
> come in and try to ask
> questions about their own operating system.  Like,
> can Linux do this or
> that.  That's a geek way of saying if between the
> start of the sentence
> (^) and the end of the sentence ($), if there's a
> question mark right
> near the end (?$), and there's any number of
> characters on either side
> of the word Linux (.*Linux.*), the answer is
> probably No, and go away,
> thanks.
>
> Yes, it's esoteric, but most of the people showing
> up to talk to me
> usually understand and enjoy it.
>
> > Heaven and Hell are the same place. It's Heaven if
> you like it
> > there, Hell if you don't.
> > Are they RC originals?
>
> They're all up at:
>
>   http://epistolary.org/rob/oldquotes.txt
>
> It rotates randomly (thanks to a script that my
> girlfriend wrote for me
> in Perl a while back) through them as you pull up
> the page.  I
> attributed where I could.  Probably a couple of web
> searches could
> attribute them all, but it's not that important.
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org
> http://epistolary.org/rob/
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or
> unsubscribe
> here:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:10:43 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Just communication
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009232209250.17740-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

> Yes, it's esoteric, but most of the people showing up to talk to me
> usually understand and enjoy it.

I enjoyed that one, and the others.

> They're all up at:
>
>   http://epistolary.org/rob/oldquotes.txt

> Probably a couple of web searches could
> attribute them all, but it's not that important.


It seems a few are from Donald X, now that is an interesting
site. Has thought a lot about games and appears to have some of
the nihilist quality Rob.  One of your friends?


I though i might check out some of his music.  I like most of
what i know there

http://www.donaldx.org/music.html


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
Weblog: http://www.psybernet.co.nz/weblog/

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Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:27:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Just communication
In-Reply-To:  <kvrqsssja8q8km9aa0mrp6tglik2qsass7@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> It seems a few are from Donald X, now that is an interesting
> site. Has thought a lot about games and appears to have some of
> the nihilist quality Rob.  One of your friends?

No, but thanks for letting me know where most of them came from.  I have
friends that enjoy him a lot, apparently.  I'll try to attribute them as
soon as I can get in to edit that file.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:33:59 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Critical mass of people and posts?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009211914100.29018-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

In case anyone hasn't visited it yet, I just added multi-lingual support
for my web page, in Spanish, German, French, Italian and Portugese,
through the AltaVista Babelfish.  Anyone who feels the urge to post
something there too, just e-mail me and I'll give you an account.

  http://epistolary.org/rob/

I know not everyone enjoys hearing about my updated web page, but I do
enjoy working on it.  :-)

Rob

--
Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Rob Carlson wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Aldon Hynes wrote:
>
> > Rob -
> >    I like your web page.  If I wasn't rushing out the
> > door, I would look at it more closely and then have a
> > better post.  Maybe tomorrow....
>
> Thanks!  And don't worry, it'll still be there.
>
> --
> Rob Carlson  rob@epistolary.org  http://epistolary.org/rob/

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