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To: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:12:15 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      5 Lines
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this list is about how You feel or think about the net and learning by =
doing ?

Did I say something wrong ?
Why is nobody wrinting ?
Who is the person sittin next to me in group ?
If we were sittin two and two .Who would like to sit next to me ?
Where has the poetry gone ?
=20
 Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
 Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
 Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
 Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
 Charles    Walter
=20
can we make a circle ?
or how to visionice the group ?
Are we 50 % men and woman ?

this is the thoughts and feelings I had since Yesterday.

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:53:57 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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In a message dated 06/01/00 9:56:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK writes:

> this list is about how You feel or think about the net and learning by
doing ?

How I feel:  I miss the anticipation I used to experience when I heard the
sound of my modem connecting through my phone line to the Internet/the Whole
Wide World.  I miss the possibility that some profound thought or insight
might pop up on my computer screen and trigger something in my unconscious,
who knew, maybe even discovery of some universal truth that has always
existed but not seen.

I miss my naive beliefs, and some small part of me holds on hoping to
rediscover that zone again.

>  Did I say something wrong ?

No.

>  Why is nobody wrinting ?

I don't know, but your post motivated me to respond when others didn't.

>  Who is the person sittin next to me in group ?

Not me, I think, but maybe across from you somewhere.

>  If we were sittin two and two .Who would like to sit next to me ?

I don't know.  I don't know you that well, do you know me?

>  Where has the poetry gone ?

Ahhh, a mystery!  I think I can't write it, but I can read it and it
sometimes touches my soul when I do.

>
>   Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
>   Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
>   Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
>   Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
>   Charles    Walter
>
>  can we make a circle ?

I suspect it is more like a blob than a circle.

>  or how to visionice the group ?

Of all the computerized advertised televised technologized blah-blah-blah
bized "places" that exist in my world today, there seems to be the
possibility for something deeper to emerge "here"  in Psyber-L than anywhere
else and so I stay.

>  Are we 50 % men and woman ?

I guess that depends on the truthfulness and openness, or trusting that we
are who we say we are, given our names.  Or something like that.  But in
reading the names of those who are here, I lean toward the trustworthiness
that we are who we say we are.

Sheryl

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:29:13 +0300
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Anita Konkka <anitak@MEGABAUD.FI>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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Hello Bent,

A nice idea to make a circle and visualize the group. I'm so sorry that
I cannot participate, because I'll leave tomorrow morning  (Friday)for
Lisbon. And after then I'm circulating around Europe for sic weeks wtih
Literaturexpress 2000.  I must go nomail or change my email address,
that I can read mails in the net cafes.

All the best to you

Anita

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:23:03 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
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In a message dated 5/28/00 5:37:36 AM, walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

<< Welcomes aside :-) what would you like to explore here Greg?


Walter >>

Walter,

I have not ignored your invitation.  Just been busy and have been thinking
about how to respond.

If we are free to explore dreams on this web site, I would like to throw one
out to the group.  I had it last week in a fitful sleep:

I am observing two people (man and woman) climbing a huge redwood type tree
which sticks up far above all the other trees around it.  They are
investigating a tree house near the top.  As they get to it, they cautiously
enter it, first the man, then the woman.  As they do so, a wild man inside
puts up a great fight and ejects them one after the other to the ground far
below.  I see him only momentarily but get the idea he is rude, brutal and
paranoid.  I (the observer of this) am most concerned with their expressions
(which seem not the least concerned about their fates) as they fall head
first, most certainly to their deaths.  Based upon their care-free
expressions, I am looking for some net of helicopter of some means of saving
them far below.  But none are found.  I don't really take part in the dream
but only observe what is happening.

Any ideas?  I hope this is not off limits for the group here.  If so I
apologize in advance.

Greg

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:06:17 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Be part of Psyber-L on the web.
In-Reply-To:  <3936B989.AC95A665@megabaud.fi>
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Anita, and all,

Re: [P] 5 Lines

Good to hear from you.

Sounds like an interesting six weeks ahead.

Do you know that you can read the archives on the net.  Archives
is a misleading word as it is simply the interface to the all the
posts on the web.

You can do this in any cyber cafe.  No need to change your
address.

It involves the use of a password to verify you are you... you'd
need to set that up while you have access to your current email
address.

The link to the web interface is on the bottom of every email in
this group.

http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


How to memorise that long url?

1.  Put it on a floppy.

OR

2.  What i do is go to http://www.psybernet.co.nz/psyber-l.htm
which I can remember, and then go to the psyber-L page from
there, using the link where it says:

Members can read them on the Web.

Good luck!


Walter




______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:44:12 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Greg's Dream
In-Reply-To:  <a8.5d2e827.26684a57@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Greg,

Re: [P] Psyber-L?

> I have not ignored your invitation.  Just been busy and have been thinking
> about how to respond.
>
> If we are free to explore dreams on this web site, I would like to throw one
> out to the group.  I had it last week in a fitful sleep:

Of course, that is fine in this group.  Go right ahead :-)

One well tested and useful way to respond to dreams online is to
imagine that this were my dream... quite literally.  What if *I*
had dreamt this and not you?  What would it mean for me?  That
way we do not intrude, and at the same time I also share about
me.  AND of course the original dreamer can use these comments or
not as they suit.

May i suggest that if others do this they do so before they read
other peoples ... the reason for this is that we are likely to
pick up on similar themes, and it is nice to hear those fresh
each time. This is one way of getting to the universal aspects.

> I am observing two people (man and woman) climbing a huge redwood type tree
> which sticks up far above all the other trees around it.  They are
> investigating a tree house near the top.  As they get to it, they cautiously
> enter it, first the man, then the woman.  As they do so, a wild man inside
> puts up a great fight and ejects them one after the other to the ground far
> below.  I see him only momentarily but get the idea he is rude, brutal and
> paranoid.  I (the observer of this) am most concerned with their expressions
> (which seem not the least concerned about their fates) as they fall head
> first, most certainly to their deaths.  Based upon their care-free
> expressions, I am looking for some net of helicopter of some means of saving
> them far below.  But none are found.  I don't really take part in the dream
> but only observe what is happening.

If this were my dream, if I had dreamt it:


> I am observing two people (man and woman) climbing a huge redwood type tree
> which sticks up far above all the other trees around it.

It makes me think of wisdom.  I read a book once about creating a
special place for ones "higher self" in a self guided
visualisation.  I created a tree house.  It was in a NZ native
Kahikatea tree.  I loved that tree house.  In my house there was
a wise man.  I can still use that image (20 years later!) to
access calm and insight.

> They are
> investigating a tree house near the top.  As they get to it, they cautiously
> enter it, first the man, then the woman.

If this were my dream I'd be thinking this is me observing me,
seeing the adventurousness of my male and female aspects moving
forward together, seeking a new higher plane.


> As they do so, a wild man inside
> puts up a great fight and ejects them one after the other to the ground far
> below.  I see him only momentarily but get the idea he is rude, brutal and
> paranoid.  I (the observer of this) am most concerned with their expressions
> (which seem not the least concerned about their fates) as they fall head
> first, most certainly to their deaths.

At this moment I am in my waking state observing the observer in
the dream, and i think "Ah, maybe he is paranoid"  the man in the
tree is wise!  He is somehow saying "get back to earth, get into
the soil you are not ready for this place."  The falling couple
seem to know this... only the "dream observer" does not.


I am also reminded of the Tarot card the "Tower" with the falling
people.  It seems in the psyche that falling is OK.  It is one of
the things we do all the time... I am thinking maybe I am falling
in love with my inner woman!

> as they fall head
> first, most certainly to their deaths.

Maybe I need to get out of my head, maybe something in me needs
to die.  I cant reconcile this with the earlier insight... So I
search inside myself now...

The image of falling together like that and landing on our heads
and dying... is scary as it gets me to think of what is really
important.  All my busy and heady things fade.  This is going to
be some moment... nothing will ever be the same.  When i awaken
from this death who will I be?  The "afterlife" seems full of
promise.  Light.

> Based upon their care-free
> expressions, I am looking for some net of helicopter of some means of saving
> them far below.  But none are found.  I don't really take part in the dream
> but only observe what is happening.

Makes me think of that part of me that wants everything to be the
same.  Cosy.  No changes, no transformations, no trouble.  Of
course life is not like that...

~~~

OK, that is what I got from this gift of your dream by thinking
it was mine.  I feel bolder!

I like to give *my dreams* a title and I'd call this "Falling
Boldly"

Thanks Greg


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:02:44 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <000c01bfcbcb$0276c140$b4db61d4@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Bent

> Did I say something wrong ?
> Why is nobody wrinting ?

I'm busy?  Yes but why did i wait?  I dont want to over do my
presence.  I backchannel not would have been best... I think it
is good to get response to our efforts!  Yet i am cautious... not
"overdoing it" comes to the fore as a somewhat  guarding voice
from my unconscious.

> Who is the person sittin next to me in group ?
> If we were sittin two and two .Who would like to sit next to me ?
> Where has the poetry gone ?
>
>  Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
>  Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
>  Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
>  Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
>  Charles    Walter
>
> can we make a circle ?


I love this question!!

Just because we appear in five lines does that mean we are in 5
lines?  does that mean I am 6 letters?

However what we are is also not to be confused with the 20
something bodies in the material world.

And even if some of us "make" a circle in our imagination...
everyone will have their own version of it.  I like the idea of
making one though.

It feels a little like parachuters all in free fall grabbing hold
of each other hoping to make that moment of contact before we all
have to pull the cord and be solitary fallers again.

Right now I feel close to you Bent

I am writing this to you though I can see several others in my
min'd eye reading this, but not all of the others.  I see Greg,
who would be close to my other hand... Bent is on the left, Greg
is on the right...

Men. Men who i hardly know.  I see Sheryl and Janell close, and
Anita. Judith.  Robert. Simon.

I am being immediate... trusting that those who posted recently
are here... others are a long way away... I wonder where Nancy
is. Stephen I sense nearby.  I also sense some of the new
people... what hell is going on? I imagine they are thinking.


> this is the thoughts and feelings I had since Yesterday.

Thanks Bent!


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:20:37 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Sv:      Re: [P] Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi Bent,

> Yes. i`m still on the list ( Bent ),and its amazing to se for the first
time
> all members at once and that we are 5 lines.

That was quite an experience for me to place all of these names on five
lines.  In many ways when I did this I felt quite a bit of loss, discovering
the names that were not there.  At the same time, seeing the names of those
who stayed gave me a good feeling.  In some ways I had hoped that they
stayed for reasons that included my being part of the place ...

> I have been writing very little over the years I have too much to do
> in my daily life working with people in groups ,playing music
> in a group and all ,and also making webpages in for my
> local community and managing debat and guestbooks
> on 3 websites.

I understand this involvement with the world ... I find myself in similar
involvement.  Strange as I am at rest quite an introvert.

> But leaving the group no. I feel that it is a very important
> part of my computerlife to open op and see that there is
> post from the group and its still living.

That pretty well sums it up.  As I said once in the past, seeing the
PSYBER-L tag line on inbox e-mail gives me a good feeling.  Why would I want
to amputate a "good feeling?"

Thanks for responding to my post, to the listing of names.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:27:16 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob,

In reponse to my suggestion about sending personal e-mails, your replied:

> A few days ago, such a personal e-mail would have garnered a one line
> response;
>
>   "I don't have time to play right now, but thanks for thinking about me."

Rob, even such a response, a one-liner, is valuable.  Such a response
indicates that you are there "quietly" something that can't be seen as in
face-to-face situations.  I put 23 names on the screen and wondered which of
these were actually "listening."

> But this morning I start posting on my own.  The difference between today
> and Friday is three less stressors, but somehow it gives me the
> opportunity to spend a little more time on the e-mail box and have my
> attention caught by this list.

I fully understand how our daily lives can serve to direct our limited
resources of time and energy.  There are "seasons" for participation in an
active mode and for participation quietly.  I do believe that "for every
thing, turn, turn, turn ... there is a season, turn, turn, turn, and a time
for every purpose under heaven."

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:50:50 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bent,

It is good to here again from you my musical friend.

> this list is about how You feel or think about the net and learning by
doing ?

I like this as part of what this list is about.  For me it is also about
relation to the people who I have got to know in various ways here and in
other joint ventures.  Part of that relation is built through sustaining
both periods of conversation and silence.

> Who is the person sittin next to me in group ?
> If we were sittin two and two .Who would like to sit next to me ?

Wellll ... I would like to sit beside you.  Perhaps we would talk about
"Ernie Ball" guitar strings or about jamming or about some great "tune" from
the sixties or seventies.

> Where has the poetry gone ?

Within to brew, to stew until ripe enough for being presented to "company."
The poetry is found in the meetings with life in ways that are framed by
Eros and by Pathos.

> can we make a circle ?

Can we not make a circle.  Perhaps it is my natural tendency to see things
in terms of circles, seasons, but I feel that linear thinking is thinking
that is limited by self-imposed blinders.

                                          Robert  Dan
                                   Bent                Susan
                            Stephen                        Judith
                       Barrett                                     Greg
                     Janell                                           Sheryl
                    Art
Rob
                     Anita
Nancy
                      Wendell                                  Lorraine
                           Carroll                             Sarina
                               Wayne                    Simon
                                    Myles         Charles
                                            Walter

I guess we do make a circle of sorts but I do feel the circle would be a
multi-leveled circle, a spiral or intersecting orbits ...

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:18:51 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Greg's Dream/Reaction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Walter,

Thanks ever so much for your thoughtful and imaginative feedback to my tree
dream.  I can't help but marvel at the fact that I sent this message out only
about an hour ago, from Kansas, to Cyberspace, to a friendly stranger named
Walter, in New Zealand, who has already kindly provided a very sensitive and
meaningful reaction to such a personal, intimate dream experience.  What a
marvel!  I am still old enough to remember growing up with an old black and
white TV in our home - in the 50s.  Who could have even dreamed of this type
experience, even five years ago!

And you are perceptive indeed!  The ideas you suggest are all highly
plausible.  The dream followed closely on the heels of a rather significant
"anima experience" I had earlier the same evening.  I'll not elaborate.  But
the circumstances do suggest that your interpretation is on track with my
psychic quadry over my earlier activities.

I was told about a month ago by a visiting best-selling author (world- known
for his Jungian books) something about myself.  I had connected with him at a
rather deep level and he said to me shortly before we parted "you know I
never give advice.  But your persona suggests to me that we should get you a
turban."  He obviously didn't wish to give me any further clues, only smiled
and looked at me expectantly.  I still don't know exactly what he was getting
at, but this image has stayed with me for several weeks now.  Maybe my dream
indicates that I am floating (yogi-style) seeking something I'm not quite
ready for yet.  Wisdom is a big deal to me, and many of my dreams reflect
this.

Anyway Walter, thank you for your in-sight. I look forward to being a part of
this group. I have happily been a member of another wonderful Jung group
(also started by someone down under - Australia) for about 2 years.  This
sounds like a good group too.  Looking forward to "meeting" the others soon.
All in good time.

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:22:07 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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In a message dated 6/1/00 8:12:03 PM, aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA writes:

<<

                                          Robert  Dan

                                   Bent                Susan

                            Stephen                        Judith

                       Barrett                                     Greg

                     Janell                                           Sheryl

                    Art

Rob

                     Anita

Nancy

                      Wendell                                  Lorraine

                           Carroll                             Sarina

                               Wayne                    Simon

                                    Myles         Charles

                                            Walter >>

I like the idea of the circle; and also very pleased that we happen to be
well balanced male/female.  I wonder what other balances we have here.

I have always tested INTJ (a measly 4% of the population) on the MBTI.
Anyone else care to reveal their types?

Greg

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:50:37 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <65.5079967.2668663f@aol.com>
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Greg, Robert, Bent, Janell and all here in Psyber-L

This is fun.  I am still with the image of not so much sitting
together as making that circle while we free fall in cyberspace.

I realise that this is not a "lump" but a series of mutually
accepted links.  Until a hand is offered and accepted there is no
link... at least only a partial one. Can we actually achieve a
circle of mutually accepted links?

Robert you and I have both suggested a spot next to Bent...

I wrote:

| Bent is on the left, Greg is on the right...

Let me put it anew:  I offer my left hand to Robert... then the
budding link between Bent and Robert can happen, and i offer my
right hand to Greg.

~~~

Sheryl, you wrote to Bent... you saw yourself across from him...
who would you have next to you?  Will they also be there next to
you?

Others?

~~~

Below is the circle Robert posted...  (slightly edited to fit my
screen)

Below that a little not on Sociometry.  Making this circle is a
"sociometric" activity.


Walter




~~~


>                              Robert  Dan
>
>                       Bent                Susan
>
>                Stephen                        Judith
>
>           Barrett                                     Greg
>
>         Janell                                           Sheryl
>
>        Art
>
>                                                          Rob
>
>         Anita
>
>                                                        Nancy
>
>          Wendell                                  Lorraine
>
>               Carroll                             Sarina
>
>                   Wayne                    Simon
>
>                        Myles         Charles
>
>                                Walter >>

~~~

I find this an interesting sociometric process!

"a situation where there is both a cohesive group and where
individuals are fully in tune with their own concerns."

This is a quote from a paper I wrote about sociometry (among
other things):

http://www.psybernet.co.nz/gp_prot.htm#_Toc441217529



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:25:18 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <ro9ejs0grhquu50iruc74vo8jl893r59r2@4ax.com>
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All,

I am finding this fascinating...the circle...the original circle
which appeared on my screen had Nancy to the left of the circle...now
with your editing, Walter, she is in...

I found when seeing the circle I had the same anxiety as I have when
I attend  workshops where we all have to sit in a circle...I always
find a place outside...I had to LOL when I found the same response
here when you brought the circle, Bent...at a recent get together the
workshop leader did those dreaded warmup things where one is required
to gaze into the eyes of a complete stranger and have some sort of
instant connect...or hug Egad!...a woman came up to me this last time
and said "you must be an introvert. Mostly extroverts come to these
things." In the past my reticence was judged as some sort of
psychological disfunction. The only circle where I have been trusting
from the start is with my shamanic teacher who begins every session
with drumming and calling in the spirits who will guide us...a very
different process...

In Psyber-L I feel connected and continue to be here, tho often
quietly so, because I trust here and this has developed over years as
I have participated...I have the sense that were we all to meet ftf I
would definitely be up for hugs!

Judith


>Below is the circle Robert posted...  (slightly edited to fit my
>screen)
>
>Below that a little not on Sociometry.  Making this circle is a
>"sociometric" activity.
>
>
>Walter
>
>
>
>
>~~~
>
>
> >                              Robert  Dan
> >
> >                       Bent                Susan
> >
> >                Stephen                        Judith
> >
> >           Barrett                                     Greg
> >
> >         Janell                                           Sheryl
> >
> >        Art
> >
> >                                                          Rob
> >
> >         Anita
> >
> >                                                        Nancy
> >
> >          Wendell                                  Lorraine
> >
> >               Carroll                             Sarina
> >
> >                   Wayne                    Simon
> >
> >                        Myles         Charles
> >
> >                                Walter >>
>
>~~~
>
>I find this an interesting sociometric process!
>
>"a situation where there is both a cohesive group and where
>individuals are fully in tune with their own concerns."
>
>This is a quote from a paper I wrote about sociometry (among
>other things):
>
>http://www.psybernet.co.nz/gp_prot.htm#_Toc441217529
>
>
>
>______________
>Walter Logeman
>walter@psybernet.co.nz
>http://www.psybernet.co.nz
>WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
>here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

____________________________________________________________
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Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 01:07:26 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <v04210107b55d8c3a7d51@[207.54.160.200]>
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JB

> I am finding this fascinating...the circle...the original circle
> which appeared on my screen had Nancy to the left of the circle...now
> with your editing, Walter, she is in...

I had two people outside the circle too, my hunch was that it was
as a result of the lines being too long for the system somewhere,
and so I edited them in!


Lovely to hear about your trust here!


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:57:29 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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In a message dated 06/01/2000 10:58:02 PM EST, walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

<< | Bent is on the left, Greg is on the right...

 Let me put it anew:  I offer my left hand to Robert... then the
 budding link between Bent and Robert can happen, and i offer my
 right hand to Greg.

 ~~~

 Sheryl, you wrote to Bent... you saw yourself across from him...
 who would you have next to you?  Will they also be there next to
 you?

 Others? >>

Walter,

I gladly accept your hand.  I offer my other hand to any woman who will take
it.  I never liked the idea of girls on one side of the room and boys on the
other.  Since I don't know any of you yet, I'll gladly hold hands with
whomever is willing.

Greg

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Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 02:33:03 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <8e.5d63e3a.26691749@aol.com>
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Greg


> Walter,
>
> I gladly accept your hand.


Oh well that is good!  hehehe holding hands in cyberspace.  In my
imagination we are doing the parachute thing.  Free falling.  I
am not sure if that came from your dream or not Greg, but there
is a similarity.


It certainly reminds me of the many f2f groups i have been in
where we have done some sort of mapping of the group's
interconnections.  One of the most difficult ones was in a group
of about 50 where we divided into men and women and did the
school dance thing, but the actual task was set as "choose
someone to be your wife"  and then later we did the "choose
someone to be your husband"  the group included  some spouses and
partners etc. they could or could not choose each other.  You
could also ask people to leave - reject the one they were with!
It was heart pounding stuff... many tears and so on.  You'd
wonder why we would do these things.  I guess it is better to
train for it in a group and learn to make it easier in life.


Walter





______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:08:19 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines
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To all

 Waw so many mails ! And all of them very vey juicy ,warm ,tasteful=20
swingning and clever .Maked me feel so good
 I like the circles and the 5 lines are now taking a lot more space.
 If I put up a empy chair in a room one for each of you ,then
we need a nice big room as there most be space between us
at least for awile.
I feel like its my turn to sit in the middle.
So much nicer than sittin in a row in line 1

To Sheryl: No I don`t know you that well but only some of
what You have said here. Seems like I would feel
comfortable sittin across from you. But I would not be
afraid sittin next.

Anitas Chair is empty or maybe she succeed in joinin
from a Net-cafe somewhere i Europe.=20

To Walter

> Right now I feel close to you Bent=20
> I am writing this to you though I can see several others in my
> min'd eye reading this, but not all of the others.  I see Greg,
> who would be close to my other hand... Bent is on the left, Greg
> is on the right...
> Men. Men who i hardly know.  I see Sheryl and Janell close, and
> Anita. Judith.  Robert. Simon.
> I am being immediate... trusting that those who posted recently
> are here... others are a long way away... I wonder where Nancy
> is. Stephen I sense nearby.  I also sense some of the new
> people... what hell is going on? I imagine they are thinking.
 >  Thanks Bent!

>
I find this an interesting sociometric process!

Yes it is

I have this wery warm and nice feeling reading Your reponse
and what happens I am beginnig to write here, leaving
a lot af other things to be done later becauce this is
very very fun and interesting .I wonder how long I can keep
up and when I return into silince.

To Robert
I will answer You as fast as possible.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:11:46 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines
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To Robert=20
> It is good to here again from you my musical friend.
>=20
> > this list is about how You feel or think about the net and learning =
by
> doing ?
>=20
> I like this as part of what this list is about.  For me it is also =
about
> relation to the people who I have got to know in various ways here and =
in
> other joint ventures.  Part of that relation is built through =
sustaining
> both periods of conversation and silence.

I agree there is a relation

 > > Who is the person sittin next to me in group ?
> > If we were sittin two and two .Who would like to sit next to me ?
>=20
> Wellll ... I would like to sit beside you.  Perhaps we would talk =
about
> "Ernie Ball" guitar strings or about jamming or about some great =
"tune" from
> the sixties or seventies.

Yes Im sure we would  talk about music and jammin and strings and maybe
make a Psyber-L tune with some clever lyrics

>Within to brew, to stew until ripe
>enough for being presented to=20
>"company."
>The poetry is found in the meetings=20
>with life in ways that are framed=20
>by Eros and by Pathos.

And thank You for the Circle=20
I have just printed it out and it
is pure energi for my thoughts
Now I missed my second bus
going to Copenhagen to hear
some Rock`n roll
Bye

Bent

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:01:10 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Personality types (was Re: [P] 5 Lines)
In-Reply-To:  <65.5079967.2668663f@aol.com>
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Greg Marshkan wrote:

> I have always tested INTJ (a measly 4% of the population) on the MBTI.
> Anyone else care to reveal their types?

I'm an INTX, leaning towards INTP and INTJ as the situation merits.

There's a list that JoAnne (remember her?) runs on my mailing list server
called INTJ-Open.  It's really high volume, but awash in fascinating
exchanges.  You can subscribe by sending the command "subscribe intj-open"
to server@epistolary.org.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

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Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:25:26 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sarina Simpson <sarina_simpson@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> interconnections.  One of the most difficult ones was in a group
> of about 50 where we divided into men and women and did the
> school dance thing, but the actual task was set as "choose
> someone to be your wife"  and then later we did the "choose
> someone to be your husband"  the group included  some spouses and
> partners etc. they could or could not choose each other.  You
> could also ask people to leave - reject the one they were with!
> It was heart pounding stuff... many tears and so on.  You'd
> wonder why we would do these things.

Seems like a rather cruel process, especially in a group of 50 where there
would not likely be opportunity to fully process the results.

Out of curiosity did those that were actually married and had spouses
present choose their them or another? And what was the result?

Regards Sarina

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Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:56:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines; suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <kjgfjsgn5q6j2lj4mam1vucmt4a1pbcmi4@4ax.com>
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all,

Greetings, especially to our new members. I'm enjoying the evolving
depiction of the group. Gladly observe the quick transformation from lines,
and the suggestions of rows, to a circle.

It made me feel around the circle as a depiction and symbol. The whole
group, if you will, made apparent.

An idea begins to percolate because it's intriguing to imagine the
different ways connections could be forged. Often in the experiential
learning realm, Judith and I explore in groups the nature of collaborating
on spontaneous creative connections. Actively connecting is what brings the
group to life in such a process. Of course, for specific (read:intended,)
purposes, but, all that's needed is intention and the wish to engage an
exploratory, creative process.

I might suggest a very quick game along these lines; lines of connection.

***

A quick search of the web (on "geometry" "dividing the circle") revealed
within seconds a nice page of pictures which showcase how positions around
a circle could get connected. Check it out:
http://www.earthmeasure.com/Designs/hexagons/sqrt3/index.html.

Pictures like these show how the positions connect not only to their
immediate neighbors but to other positions around the circle.

The flavor of those connections could be tasted by simply exploring
together what those possible connections might be.

It would take two or three days to go through such a process. It's a kind
of game. But, it wouldn't be so intense or prolonged as a glass bead game.
Thinking out loud about it's form, I'd suggest it would be a game in which
everybody who wished to would make one spontaneous, speedy, move. Give this
page a look-see and give me some feedback about whether this might be worth
designing and doing.

Wondering...

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:27:58 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines; suggestion
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all and  Stephen

In one circle You are right next to me and i hear You loud and clear.
the idea with a game is exciting.
i had a look on
> http://www.earthmeasure.com/Designs/hexagons/sqrt3/index.html.

and i must say thath I dont understand all of it. And some of it=20
is impossible to read.
But if You can design something wich is simple enough for me
Im in. Geometry and mathematics is not my strong side at all.


> I might suggest a very quick game along these lines; lines of =
connection.
 >=20
> It would take two or three days to go through such a process. It's a =
kind
> of game. But, it wouldn't be so intense or prolonged as a glass bead =
game.
> Thinking out loud about it's form, I'd suggest it would be a game in =
which
> everybody who wished to would make one spontaneous, speedy, move. Give =
this
> page a look-see and give me some feedback about whether this might be =
worth
> designing and doing.
>=20
=20
bent

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Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 22:36:21 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <20000602231946.36518.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sarina,

Your first post to this list, good to have you here.


> Seems like a rather cruel process, especially in a group of 50 where there
> would not likely be opportunity to fully process the results.
>
> Out of curiosity did those that were actually married and had spouses
> present choose their them or another? And what was the result?

It was a 5 day workshop and well run, with plenty of small groups
for sharing... and the purpose was to explore relationships.  It
was 20 years or so ago too!  I think we have grown out of these
sort of things, i hope so :)

However, it was a lot like life. The choices we have to make
involve rejection of other options, when that involves such
things as about marriage partners...  life can be cruel. To
explore the way we did was less so.

I cant recall just how the choosing panned out, but I do recall
the feelings of fear of rejection and in response twinges of
animal survival instincts coming to the fore.


All the best,


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:20:12 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines; suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <001801bfcd46$642ae200$93c261d4@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Bent Bgedal

Hello!

>i had a look on
>> http://www.earthmeasure.com/Designs/hexagons/sqrt3/index.html.
>
>and i must say thath I dont understand all of it.

Thanks for looking; the page was suggested as something to look at pictures
of circles and connections. That's all. I don't understand it either.

If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, sweet; God Willing.

regards,

Stephen

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Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:23:24 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Greg's Dream
In-Reply-To:  <oerdjs0vdhus37jqrvgomqv2821pbbmf01@4ax.com>
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Greg, Walter,

Nothing comes up for me as if the dream were mine. However. Walter, if I
encountered a wise man in a tree house, I would wish the tree to have deep
roots.

Now where did I put my lead boots?

***

best2all,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 00:20:23 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines; suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b55d647a428c@[207.54.160.158]>
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Stephen

Hi there.

> If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, sweet; God Willing.

Our "play" here can get so damn complex!  And then it is hard to
complete.  Probably just my head space -- but i'd love to see
some psychologically interesting simple little things.

The cyberspace is a Rorschach test.


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:46:43 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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Sheryl,

Hello my pumpkin princess *S* ... It has been a while since I have heard
your voice.  In response to Bent's query you said:

> How I feel:  I miss the anticipation I used to experience when I heard the
> sound of my modem connecting through my phone line to the Internet/the
Whole
> Wide World.  I miss the possibility that some profound thought or insight
> might pop up on my computer screen and trigger something in my
unconscious,
> who knew, maybe even discovery of some universal truth that has always
> existed but not seen.

Has this environment dried up or is this about something else.  Perhaps
listening over and over again to the same people has resulted in really
hearing nothing new for quite some time.  Perhaps this is another pitfall
about this computer-mediated world.  We only "hear" what we already, either
consciously or unconsciously, know.

> I miss my naive beliefs, and some small part of me holds on hoping to
> rediscover that zone again.

Rediscovery of this alchemical stirring, the transformative stewing in a
cauldron ... in retrospect this takes on a "glow" that lies about the
difficult nature of the process, the painful process, the descent that comes
with the "zone."  I think this is most true when "life" takes on a dreary
sameness.

> Of all the computerized advertised televised technologized blah-blah-blah
> bized "places" that exist in my world today, there seems to be the
> possibility for something deeper to emerge "here"  in Psyber-L than
anywhere
> else and so I stay.

And for that I am glad.  I think that I hold to the same hope.  I also hold
the same hope for my community at JUNG-L.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:46:46 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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Greg,

> I have always tested INTJ (a measly 4% of the population) on the MBTI.
> Anyone else care to reveal their types?

I think that this was done once or twice in the distant PSYBER-L past.  I am
continually testing INFP.   The I ranges from 80-90 percent, the N often is
pegged at 100 though it has fluctuated at times.  Only P has a wide range of
movement.

And yet, many in my work world see me as an extrovert as I am easy to
approach and always meet others with a smile and attention.

As for percentages, this group makes up slightly less than 1% of the tested
population (I think that it is important to note that the tested population
is not really representative of the "human" population).  The on-line
representation for INFP's is significantly higher.  This seems to be a
medium made for "IN's"

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:46:49 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
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Walter,

> Robert you and I have both suggested a spot next to Bent...
>
> I wrote:
>
> | Bent is on the left, Greg is on the right...
>
> Let me put it anew:  I offer my left hand to Robert... then the
> budding link between Bent and Robert can happen, and i offer my
> right hand to Greg.

In my post, I had tried to suggest that each of us inhabits a circle of our
own, an orbit if you will, in which we intersect the orbits of "other's"
here at PSYBER-L.  If we accept that notion then nothing has to change at
all.  You can keep both Greg and Bent where you initially indicated and yet
still find me on the left at moments when our parabolic paths intersect.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:46:51 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Sitting in the middle
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Bent,

> I feel like its my turn to sit in the middle.
> So much nicer than sittin in a row in line 1

Strange, but in thinking is "circle" terms, I do not see myself ever at the
centre but almost always in some fringe orbit around the centre.  What I do
bring to the centre is just a projection of my consciousness.  What arrives
at the centre is a mixture of my conscious intention and a whole lot of
unconscious spill-over.

> Anitas Chair is empty or maybe she succeed in joinin
> from a Net-cafe somewhere i Europe.

For me, Anita's chair is never empty.  That is one of the weird things about
this environment.  At any moment, one can return and "hear" what has been
said, even months previously, as if it was immediate.  PSYBER-L has  sense
of relation with "other's" that appears to have constants for me.  These
constants are Walter, Charles, Stephen, Anita, Judith, Susan, and Simon.
Amputations that are missed by me are Marie, Wilbur, Eleanor, Ise ... I know
that I have missed saying a name or two as I feel even more is missing than
that.  And, I know that there is a second set of orbits that are now fully
part of the PSYBER-L community that I hold dear ... you, Sheryl, Dan,
Janell, and Nancy ... Nancy, where are you?

I apologise for not having as strong a sense of relation to those not named.
I know that it isn't in the least "fair."  But I can only say what I have
felt in terms of being in relation.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 15:46:55 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Judith,

> I am finding this fascinating...the circle...the original circle
> which appeared on my screen had Nancy to the left of the circle...now
> with your editing, Walter, she is in...

It would be nice to have had my original design as it appeared on my screen
to appear to everyone as I had designed it.  Strange how the medium plays
these tricks on us as if it were a trickster.  Nancy as both in and out ...
and the wondering about where Nancy is ...

> In Psyber-L I feel connected and continue to be here, tho often
> quietly so, because I trust here and this has developed over years as
> I have participated...I have the sense that were we all to meet ftf I
> would definitely be up for hugs!

Since I am always one for hugs *S* I will give you one now, here ...

{{{{{{Judith}}}}}

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:36:51 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Miles Thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines; suggestion

me again. - miles - i am here.

there in the lines, in the circle, kinda.

well now.

i like games  - let's play

> If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, sweet; God Willing.
>
> regards,
>

love to all,

miles 9in the web9

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:39:08 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Miles Thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines

>I am continually testing INFP

i havent done mine for ages...

i wonder - is there  anywhere out there
where you can do the test online?

something sensitive that you can control ?

miles

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:33:53 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      What does depth mean for you?
In-Reply-To:  <015501bfcda5$35e41060$895fa58e@cyberie>
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Robert, Sheryl, All,

In the 5 lines thread you had this conversation...

S:
> > there seems to be the
> > possibility for something deeper to emerge "here"
> > in Psyber-L than anywhere else and so I stay.

R:
> And for that I am glad.  I think that I hold to the same hope.

I have that hope too... I also have the notion that "hoping for
something deeper" somehow diminishes the present depth.  Going
deeper seems to happen with patience in the present, seeing depth
in the moment.

This moment in Psyber-L has a lot happening:

There is Greg's dream.

The Circle - are we making one?

The conversation about play

The connections between people, who is here "for" who (in our
minds)?

The emergence of this dialogue out of the silence.

There is the ontological stuff about perception running through a
few posts.

Choosing - sociometry.


Now all this seems deep enough, but perhaps it is also very
broad, as there is no need to go further with any one direction.
Anyone could now say:  Lets take this further... a leader in a
synchronous face to face group might do that... here it is not so
simple, nor is it even desirable.

~~~

Oops, I've started to go...

I intended to ask simply:   What does depth mean for you?



Walter









______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:33:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         miles thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      dream: its all too late
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hi again,

miles - sitting in the office late at night

should go to bed - but heres a dream of a few nights ago.

i woke in almost a cold sweat, totally freaked and excited by this dream
i was, as you get, convinced it would make  great short movie.. so, =
still buzzing
reached out wrote it down - couldnt find a pen in the house so had to =
scribble
it my palm actually... anyway here it is..

realise now that this is more of a personal movie, hey, whatever

Actually the sound track was key to the way it freaked
me out but i cant remember it and even if i did
you would not be able to hear it..

-----

"its all too late"

-----

scene: me walking on sandy abandoned industrial zone.
there is a large metal bridge going almost overhead, maybe
the brooklyn bridge, except down here its almost some sort of
beach.. sandy, though the sand is that kind which is
coated with industrial grime
=20
( the song: c c6, c c6, c b, c c5 c.. haunting, david lynch kinda thing
  a womans voice, no words dah dah, dah dah, dah dah dah daaah )

im drawn to the refrain ..
=20
the woman is lying in the sand, singing through wind cracked lips.

the lips are very full - like a parody of the hollywood lips,
and she is a woman, ina grimy white dress.. sort of like
maybe sh is a New Jersey Truck stop waittresss -- only not.

"its all too late" she is singing - but why  ?

i look down at my own arm - starting to discolour

she leads me back to a hotel where her husband
(ex-husband) works...

he works as the janitor or matre'd or something,

why is she sleeping out on the sand,
can't he put her up for the night in the hotel ?

well - its all too late...

she explains the story - a little.. giving
the impression that she feels the rough outline
is good enough;
basically, she got drunk ? or maybe she got in a
fight.. the ex-husband grabs the narrative and
takes over her story, only he gets a lot more
detailed and almost vicious..

he is wearing a grey working overalls. he was
sweeping up the gray concrete,
faux spanish-villa style archway we are=20
under... though  he rests on the broom now.

he says that she came to him looking for
a place to stay - though they've been seperated
for a while - expecting him to be able to find a
place because of his position at the hotel

how she came and stayed for a while,
but was desperate for drugs, how
she turned tricks, and how what with
all of that -- well, there was no way
 she could have a place there now..
and on this they agree..

she looks down about it - i myself could
almost see the point the man was making,
but no. i do not. i have this desire to help,
but anyway, she says, rising from the ground
to float above my head its all too late,
she has been dead three months now.

and that was all she wrote.


---
29 may , 5:36 am



bit of a sixth sense rip off at the end there, but freaked
the hell out of me in any event









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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hi again,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>miles - sitting in the office late at=20
night</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>should go to bed - but heres a dream of =
a few=20
nights ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i woke in&nbsp;almost a cold sweat, =
totally freaked=20
and excited by this dream</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i was, as you get, convinced it would =
make&nbsp;=20
great short movie.. so, still buzzing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>reached out wrote it down - couldnt =
find a pen in=20
the house so had to scribble</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it my palm actually... anyway here it=20
is..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>realise now that this is more of a =
personal movie,=20
hey, whatever</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actually the sound track was key to the =
way it=20
freaked</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>me out but i cant remember it and even =
if i=20
did</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you would not be able to hear =
it..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-----</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"its all too late"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-----<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>scene: me walking on sandy abandoned =
industrial=20
zone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>there is a large metal bridge going =
almost=20
overhead, maybe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the brooklyn bridge, except down here =
its almost=20
some sort of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>beach.. sandy, though the sand is that =
kind which=20
is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>coated with industrial =
grime</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>( the song: c c6, c c6, c b, c c5 c.. =
haunting,=20
david lynch kinda thing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; a womans voice, no words dah =
dah, dah dah,=20
dah dah dah daaah )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>im drawn to the refrain ..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the woman is lying in the sand, singing =
through=20
wind cracked lips.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the lips are very full - like a parody =
of the=20
hollywood lips,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and she is a woman, ina grimy white =
dress.. sort of=20
like</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>maybe sh is a New Jersey Truck stop =
waittresss --=20
only not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"its all too late" she is singing - but =
why&nbsp;=20
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i look down at my own arm - starting to =

discolour</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>she leads me back to a hotel where her=20
husband</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(ex-husband) works...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>he works as the janitor or matre'd or=20
something,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>why is she sleeping out on the =
sand</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>can't he put her up for the night in =
the hotel=20
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>well - its all too late...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>she explains the story - a little..=20
giving</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the impression that she feels the rough =

outline</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is good enough;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>basically, she got drunk ? or maybe she =
got=20
in&nbsp;a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>fight.. the ex-husband grabs the =
narrative=20
and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>takes over her story, only he =
gets&nbsp;a lot=20
more</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>detailed and almost =
vicious..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>he is wearing a grey working overalls. =
he=20
was</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sweeping</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> up the gray=20
concrete,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>faux spanish-villa style archway we are =

</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>under... though&nbsp; he rests on the =
broom=20
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>he says that she came to him looking=20
for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a place to stay - though they've been=20
seperated</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for a while - expecting him to be able =
to find=20
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>place because of his position at the=20
hotel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how she came and stayed for a =
while,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but was desperate for drugs, =
how</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>she turned tricks, and how what =
with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>all of that -- well, there</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> was no way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;she could have a place there=20
now..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and on this they agree..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>she looks down about it - i myself=20
could</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>almost see the point the man was=20
making,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but no. i do not. i have this desire to =

help,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but anyway, she says, rising from the=20
ground</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to float above my head</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> its all too late,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>she has been dead three=20
months&nbsp;now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and that was all she =
wrote.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>---</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>29 may , =
5:36=20
am</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>bit of a sixth sense rip off at the end there, but freaked</DIV>
<DIV>the hell out of me in any event</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFCDCD.507D4540--

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:48:05 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Types
In-Reply-To:  <015601bfcda5$37a01840$895fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert, Greg,


> > I have always tested INTJ (a measly 4% of the population) on the MBTI.
> > Anyone else care to reveal their types?

INFJ usually I think, but have also tested INTJ in the past.

Is there a good place to do it again on the net?

~~~

> The on-line
> representation for INFP's is significantly higher.  This seems to be a
> medium made for "IN's"

That is interesting!  It makes sense too, like a community of
recluses :)


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:01:46 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <015701bfcda5$3997a280$895fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert,

I accept your notion!

> > Let me put it anew:  I offer my left hand to Robert... then the
> > budding link between Bent and Robert can happen, and i offer my
> > right hand to Greg.
>
> In my post, I had tried to suggest that each of us inhabits a circle of our
> own, an orbit if you will, in which we intersect the orbits of "other's"
> here at PSYBER-L.  If we accept that notion then nothing has to change at
> all.  You can keep both Greg and Bent where you initially indicated and yet
> still find me on the left at moments when our parabolic paths intersect.

The thing is that with this simple idea of "making a circle" we
strike a situation in cyberspace that we would never have in real
life.  In this group, I bet if we were all together and Bent had
said "lets make a circle" we would do it easily and simply!

Of course what we *can* have here, just as easily and simply, but
what would not be so easy face to face, is the sharing of the
various images we carry about what a circle is!   We have your
Orbits, Stephen's marvelous geometry, Bent sitting in a chair in
the center (Go for it Bent!) and my own image, particularly
powerful in my imagination, of us free falling in cyberspace...
it over-rides my close attention to other images of the circle.
I am still there, falling holding onto Greg's hand... the other
waving fee!  heheheh.

I dont mean not to accept your notion... i do accept it, but I
find it hard to overlay that on the one that came "naturally"...

This is why playing a simple game is so hard in cyberspace i
think.

I have many more thoughts on this ... I might work on a new
post... "Playing the game in cyberspace"  or such.


Walter






______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:04:49 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Sitting in the middle
In-Reply-To:  <015801bfcda5$3dfaae80$895fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert

> Eleanor

Have I forgotten her, or is that Dolores mutilated by a spell
checker?

Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 07:32:34 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Sitting in the middle
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter,

There was an Eleanor .... And yes, Dolores ....

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:10:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <atnjjscems1uvrnimukvfrlsd2r4bmainq@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, all,

Just to clarify, it was Roberts, (thanks!) who first raised a circle of
circles, (my term,) to express ways to more elaborately connect all the
members of the circle. I just took his idea and ran with it out into the
web. Thus, circles woven together into bigger circles...

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:23:37 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/3/00 4:47:07 PM, aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA writes:

<< I think that this was done once or twice in the distant PSYBER-L past.  I
am

continually testing INFP.   The I ranges from 80-90 percent, the N often is

pegged at 100 though it has fluctuated at times.  Only P has a wide range of

movement. >>

Robert,

INFP - "Still Waters run deep".   Way of relating to the world is Extraverted
Intuition.  As opposed to the INTJ's persona taking the shape of extraverted
thinkers.  You probably have a strong convictions about how a life is best
lived.

I think you are correct about the incidence of each being even less than 4%
of general population, perhaps as low as 1%.  I have lived a good part of
life as an outsider.  But I am coming to terms with that, accepting me for
what I am.  That now seems the healthiest approach to me.

BTW, there is an excellent recent book on MBTI typology (Shambala, 1998) by
Lenore Thomson: PERSONALITY TYPE - An Onner's Manual.  It goes into much more
detail than I have seen elsewhere.  Very helpful, and written in very
practical, easily understood terms.

Thanks for sharing this about yourself.  I am just learning about others in
the group.
This seems an efficient short cut for doing so.  (We like efficiency you
know!).

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:55:44 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Types
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/4/00 1:37:12 AM, walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

<< > The on-line
> representation for INFP's is significantly higher.  This seems to be a
> medium made for "IN's"

That is interesting!  It makes sense too, like a community of
recluses :) >>

birds of a feather flock together

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:56:00 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Types
In-Reply-To:  <olnjjs0bo0d7gotbt9d5mbkaej6g4jb5hr@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

Walter,

> INFJ usually I think, but have also tested INTJ in the past.
> Is there a good place to do it again on the net?

http://www.keirsey.com/

If you test as INTJ, it will probably suggest joining JoAnne's list.
That's how we get a lot of our subscribers lately.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:04:06 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 6/4/00 1:51:10 AM, walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

<<  We have your
Orbits, Stephen's marvelous geometry, Bent sitting in a chair in
the center (Go for it Bent!) and my own image, particularly
powerful in my imagination, of us free falling in cyberspace...
it over-rides my close attention to other images of the circle.
I am still there, falling holding onto Greg's hand... the other
waving fee!  >>

This "free fall" symbolism reminds me so powerfully of Jung's own experience
one day while sitting at his desk in his study, just prior to his own descent
into the unc.  The image of letting himself "drop" left a powerful
metaphorical impression/memory for him which never left him.  It was both
frightening and essential to his internal development - the beginning of his
own individuation process.  One can only wonder if, had he had the advantage
of cyber pals who were willing to take the plunge with him, if his life's
experience would have been even richer.  Somehow I believe that the old fool w
ould have been a prolific user of email, had the technology been available to
him.  So......now we have it!
Randomly,

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:39:27 +0100
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Simon G. Trask" <simon@SIMBIOSIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5 Lines
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b55eddeb11b4@[207.54.160.223]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 11:10 am -0500 3/6/00, Stephen Calhoun wrote:
>Walter, all,
>
>Just to clarify, it was Roberts, (thanks!) who first raised a circle of
>circles, (my term,) to express ways to more elaborately connect all the
>members of the circle. I just took his idea and ran with it out into the
>web. Thus, circles woven together into bigger circles...


All,

Well, I've scratched that big long email I was going to write
(there's just *so much* to say, isn't there?). I tend to be an
all-or-nothing person, but now I think I'll aim for somewhere in
between, otherwise it'll probably just be nothing. So for the moment
anyway I just want to say it's a pleasure to read the posts and
witness the 'wandering together' of familiar names inhabiting this
'space/place' we call Psyber-L. Also, welcome to Greg and Sarina, I
hope you find some thing(s) of value to you here. Walter, I wanted to
echo your words of a while back, this is how I feel too:

>There has been no slam of the door here.  I feel as close to some
>people as ever and imagine others do too, I sense good will.
>Even in this prolonged silence this "group" feels like a home on
>the net, and not an empty house.

The silence here has never felt empty to me. Likewise, the list has
never felt dead; it's a site of enduring meaning(s), bigger than
silence, bigger than conversation. A precious gem with a halo of
meaning(fullness), located in a hidden corner of cyberspace, out of
sight of the crushing monster of global corporate business-as-usual.

As for the circle, I understand its role here as an attractor for
'gathering' and perhaps 'community' (a troublesome notion these
days), but to me it's too static and too much about hierarchy
('hierarchy of closeness'). I like Robert's notion of intersecting
orbits, or as Stephen puts it in a magical sense, "circles woven
together into bigger circles".

Simon

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 19:13:34 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFCE58.FA7E7A60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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All=20
=20
I had this idea  ( theese days makes me think and reflect about this =
group
for hours ,it pops up in the bus in the train when I am walking and even =
in my sleep)

I haven written my 5-Lines profile  I printed out the
Circle and placed it on the wall over my Personal Comunication Machine
It gives me the visual picture of the group that I m a menber of.
 Could someone keep track of such a group profile  Walter ???=20
And would anyone write ones profile in the circle.
And could it be a kind of letterhead ?

                                      Robert        =20
                                                 =20
                       Dan
                                                     Susan
                  Stephen                        Judith
=20
              Barrett                                     Greg
=20
          Janell                                           Sheryl
=20
          Art=20
                                  Bent /Male/52/Denmark
                                   Socialworker/FamilyTherapist
                                 Pre-Scool teacher
                                    Artist/Musician
                            http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb
=20
                                                                   Rob=20
             Anita=20
                                                               Nancy
=20
               Wendell                                  Lorraine
=20
                      Carroll                             Sarina
=20
                         Wayne                    Simon
=20
                            Myles                    Charles  =20

                                          Walter =20
=20
 Is it possible to progress the connection ?? To send a file along with =
the E-mail
picture ,sound or movie with out missing the advanged of=20
E-Mail reflection. It could turn up to be much more creative .???=20
I need to to hold on to the change computer communication
did to me ,ever since words in writing ,was the only way in the =
begining.
Anyway why do I not recieve html e-Mails ??

Or am I too far out ???
=20
Love to all

=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">All&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I had this idea&nbsp; ( theese days =
makes me=20
think and reflect about this group</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">for hours ,it pops up in the bus in =
the train=20
when&nbsp;I am walking and even in my sleep)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I haven written my 5-Lines =
profile&nbsp; I=20
printed out the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Circle and placed it on the wall =
over my=20
Personal Comunication Machine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It gives me the visual picture of =
the group=20
that I m a menber of.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Could someone keep track of such a group =
profile&nbsp;=20
Walter ??? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">And would anyone write ones=20
profile</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"> in the =
circle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">And could it be a kind of letterhead =

?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Robert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Dan<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Susan<BR>&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Stephen&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Judith<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Barrett&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
Greg<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Janell&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Sheryl<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Art&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<FONT size=3D1>Bent /Male/52/Denmark</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Socialw=
orker/FamilyTherapist</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pre-Scool teacher</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Artist</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D1>/Musician</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb">http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb</A></F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rob&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Anita&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Nancy<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Wendell&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Lorraine<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
Carroll&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Sarina<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Wayne&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Simon<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Myles&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp; Charles&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp; Walter&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Is it possible to progress the =

connection ?? To send a file along with the E-mail</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">picture ,sound or movie with out =
missing the=20
advanged of </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">E-Mail reflection. It could turn up =
to be much=20
more creative .</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">??? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I need to to hold on to the change =
computer=20
communication</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">did to me ,ever since words in =
writing ,was=20
the only way in the begining.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Anyway why do I not recieve html =
e-Mails=20
??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Or am I too far out ???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Love to all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFCE58.FA7E7A60--

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 19:21:42 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines; suggestion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFCE5A.1DA20880"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFCE5A.1DA20880
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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Oh Stephen

 > Thanks for looking; the page was suggested as something to look at =
pictures
> of circles and connections. That's all. I don't understand it either.

 What a releif ha,ha,ha,ha,ha I think it was betufful pics.
I had a moment of feelin stupid. He He

 > If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, sweet; God Willing.

That makes me feel like even more setup to join the your game.
Then I guess it will be Your turn to sit in the middle in the 5- lines =
circle Ha ha ha   :-)

Oh Walter

> If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, sweet; God Willing.

>Our "play" here can get so damn complex!  And then it is hard to
>complete.  Probably just my head space -- but i'd love to see
<some psychologically interesting simple little things.

yeah walter maybe it is possible lets see what Stephen comes up with

>The cyberspace is a Rorschach test.

What ??? Where is the ink +++ ( see my next responce )

>The Inside memmber of INTJFPQRWST

Please tell me what in the hole wide world of  strange shortcut is :
INTJ ,INFP ect.

 ROBERT :
>Strange, but in thinking is "circle" terms, I do not see myself ever at =
the
>centre but almost always in some fringe orbit around the centre.  What =
I do
>bring to the centre is just a projection of my consciousness.  What =
arrives
>at the centre is a mixture of my conscious intention and a whole lot of
>unconscious spill-over.

Yes ,but imagin to be there in the center .What happens with me is that =
I
get the feelin of taking responsibility .I mean I have placed my self =
there
and would like to stay there for awhile and nothing really convinced me
to get out of there yet.
Relations : Constans : =20
Something in what you said hit me. I have difficulties with long deep =
relations ,since I am
an adopted child .I always had the trouble with making and keeping
and maintaining long time relations. Except my wife for nearly 27 years.
I wonder what in our life the Psyber-L group triggers.

WALTER. free faling. How are You free falling .
Is this a dream about flying ???
I Love that kind of dreams when I am flying over my childhood streets.
And even grown up streets , up above the trees and wires and factorys
and street cars ect.=20

 regards
Bent B=F8gedal=20

=20


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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Oh Stephen<BR><BR>&nbsp;&gt; Thanks =
for=20
looking; the page was suggested as something to look at pictures<BR>&gt; =
of=20
circles and connections. That's all. I don't understand it=20
either.<BR><BR>&nbsp;What a releif ha,ha,ha,ha,ha I think&nbsp;it was =
betufful=20
pics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I had a moment of feelin stupid. He=20
He<BR><BR>&nbsp;&gt; If we play a game here, it will be easy, short, =
sweet; God=20
Willing.<BR><BR>That makes me feel like even more setup to join the your =

game.<BR>Then I guess it will be Your turn to sit in the middle in the =
5- lines=20
circle Ha ha ha&nbsp;&nbsp; :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Oh Walter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&gt; If we play a game here, it =
will be=20
easy, short, sweet; God Willing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&gt;Our "play" here can get so damn=20
complex!&nbsp; And then it is hard to<BR>&gt;complete.&nbsp; Probably =
just my=20
head space -- but i'd love to see<BR>&lt;some psychologically =
interesting simple=20
little things.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">yeah walter maybe it is possible =
lets see what=20
Stephen comes up with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&gt;The cyberspace is a Rorschach=20
test.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">What ??? Where is the ink +++ ( see =
my next=20
responce )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Times New Roman">&gt;The Inside =
memmber of=20
INTJFPQRWST</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Please tell me what in the hole wide =
world=20
of&nbsp; strange shortcut is :</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">INTJ ,INFP ect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;ROBERT :</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&gt;Strange, but in thinking is =
"circle"=20
terms, I do not see myself ever at the<BR>&gt;centre but almost always =
in some=20
fringe orbit around the centre.&nbsp; What I do<BR>&gt;bring to the =
centre is=20
just a projection of my consciousness.&nbsp; What arrives<BR>&gt;at the =
centre=20
is a mixture of my conscious intention and a whole lot =
of<BR>&gt;unconscious=20
spill-over.</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Yes ,but imagin to be there in the =
center=20
.What happens with me is that I</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">get the feelin of taking =
responsibility .I=20
mean I have placed my self there</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">and would like to stay there for =
awhile and=20
nothing really convinced me</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">to get out of there =
yet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Relations : Constans :&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Something in what you said&nbsp;hit =
me. I have=20
difficulties with long deep relations ,since I am</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">an adopted child .I always had the =
trouble=20
with making and keeping</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">and maintaining long time relations. =
Except my=20
wife for nearly 27 years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I wonder what in our life the =
Psyber-L group=20
triggers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">WALTER. free faling. How are You =
free falling=20
.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Is this a dream about flying =
???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I Love that kind of dreams when I am =
flying=20
over my childhood streets.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">And even grown up streets , up above =
the trees=20
and wires and factorys</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">and street cars ect. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;regards<BR>Bent B=F8gedal=20
<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFCE5A.1DA20880--

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:30:12 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Jung as old fool
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greg,

You bring up Jung in relation to what we speak of here in terms of
"relation:"

> One can only wonder if, had he had the advantage
> of cyber pals who were willing to take the plunge with him, if his life's
> experience would have been even richer.  Somehow I believe that the old
fool w
> ould have been a prolific user of email, had the technology been available
to
> him.  So......now we have it!

<SMILE>  He is here, Greg.  And he does love this computer-medaited
communication world.  Yes, he was and remains an old fool ... stress on the
word "fool" ... Amazing how much wisdom is held by the "fool."

If you want to meet Jung, you will find him baiting and posing for the
adoring and angry anywhere that you hear his name (especially at JUNG-L).

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:30:18 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Circle game
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter,

All the perceptions of the circle game are able to be held at the same time.
I realise that this creates a tension, but tension is a "vital" force isn't
it?  One can be in the centre while sitting in a row while maintaining an
orbit of relation while in freefall ... multi-dimensional and fractal
thinking is required *S*

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:41:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Wendell M Kury <wkury@LARIAT.ORG>
Subject:      LINES-CIRCLE-FALLING-TREE

Warm Greetings to All,

Want to share some day dreams I just had about this group:

Perhaps seeded by the reported tree dream and "falling"

The tree embraced the circle and we are all sitting on branches

We are playing high above in a bromeliad ecological zone

Nourished by the special waters there that only come

At special times

It's like groping for the elusive 7th chakra or the

Holy Grail

The tree is the Cosmic Axis where shamans work and Frodo lives

The Tree has very strong ancient roots

The Tree of Life

The Tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:47:56 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         miles thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      Fw: Re: [P] Types
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well i just did my test..

 turns out Im a eSFp,
(artisan - performer)

though i coulda sworn i came out
a bit differently once before..
thats kinda cool though I think im changing

i didnt get invited
 to JoAnnes list -- arrghh am I in the
 wrong place?

 (just kidding)

miles

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Jun 2000 19:37:29 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: LINES-CIRCLE-FALLING-TREE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/4/00 4:51:52 PM, wkury@LARIAT.ORG writes:

<< Warm Greetings to All,

Want to share some day dreams I just had about this group:

Perhaps seeded by the reported tree dream and "falling"

The tree embraced the circle and we are all sitting on branches

We are playing high above in a bromeliad ecological zone

Nourished by the special waters there that only come

At special times

It's like groping for the elusive 7th chakra or the

Holy Grail

The tree is the Cosmic Axis where shamans work and Frodo lives

The Tree has very strong ancient roots

The Tree of Life

The Tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong >>

Thanks for this.  Still a bit amazed at the multiple ripple effects touched
off by my recent tree dream.  Seems to have connected with some complexes/
archetypal resonances of some type.  I really hadn't in any way anticipated
its multiple meanings which this group has been so kind and creative in
sharing with me and with each other.  Delighted to have had it to share.  The
image of these two people (male and female) smiling as they were ejected from
that tree house into free fall, which had so captivated me in my sleep, now
seems to be connecting with many of you in unexpected ways.  I searched and
worried, but found no "reason" for them to be so unconcerned at their
predicament.  Just curious, have any of you had falling dreams or experiences
you would care to share?  Was there a landing?

Ever grateful,

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jun 2000 23:49:23 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: [P] Types
In-Reply-To:  <009301bfce76$ed0b8080$e70aa8c0@mileslptp>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Miles,

You might test differently on a full Myers-Briggs. I didn't, but you might!

And, I tested out as the ever popular ENFP which fits with my puer
psychology -I wish to say 'nicely'- but let's just say it fits. Now, where
did I put my lead boots?

***

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:33:30 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: dream: its all too late
In-Reply-To:  <001201bfcdee$d7ea99d0$e70aa8c0@mileslptp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

miles,

Forget this sorta here... you are here.

I know who is not here:  Cheryl!  I just recalled that you two
had dialogues at times.  I wish she were here.


> Actually the sound track was key to the way it freaked
> me out but i cant remember it and even if i did
> you would not be able to hear it..

Dont underestimate the imagination and the collective
unconscious!

[Having read the whole dream now, i can see how cinematic it is
and how the sound track needs to be just right.}


~~~

OK, if this were my dream:  This is no special insight into
*Miles* I totally forget the dreamer, I imagine i have woken
up... and this is my dream.  It is good for me, saves having to
remember my own  :-) Greg's dream has been with me and may as
well have been mine... I am still anticipating the moment of
landing...

I hope others have a go at viewing these dreams as relating to
their own lives.  I think there is less possibility of the
reviewing of the dreams being intrusive if there are several
responses, they might well enhance the universal and de-emphasise
the particular references.

~~~

"My dream":

> scene: me walking on sandy abandoned industrial zone.
> there is a large metal bridge going almost overhead, maybe
> the brooklyn bridge, except down here its almost some sort of
> beach.. sandy, though the sand is that kind which is
> coated with industrial grime

This makes me think of my work. It is a bit startling to read
"abandoned" as I have not abandoned my clients, but i have
abandoned the sort of energy i had for the work not so long ago.
I am energised in my online work and my plans for an overseas
trip, a bridge is a fitting symbol for both.

I want the beach to be clean and white, life to be a "beach"...
the business with work might be seen as industrial grime.

> ( the song: c c6, c c6, c b, c c5 c.. haunting, david lynch kinda thing
>   a womans voice, no words dah dah, dah dah, dah dah dah daaah )
>
> im drawn to the refrain ..
>
> the woman is lying in the sand, singing through wind cracked lips.

In the midst of the world as it were, in its grime, there is a
feminine voice... my own feminine aspects... calling but

> the lips are very full - like a parody of the hollywood lips,
> and she is a woman, ina grimy white dress.. sort of like
> maybe sh is a New Jersey Truck stop waittresss -- only not.
>
> "its all too late" she is singing - but why  ?

Now the word abandoned comes to mind again.  Abandoned beach,
abandoned woman? Abandoned feeling, intuitive aspects of me?  I
feel sad as i look at this woman, the Hollywood aspect and the
working woman aspect and the "its all too late" give me a sense
of an oppressed woman, sort of routinely oppressed by the
culture.  I have a sense of that culture in me, of being bought
up in it, of having imbibed it.  That is what feels sad and too
late to really recover from.

> singing through wind cracked lips

I find this a haunting image to go with the haunting music.  A
beautiful image too, in fact the dream for all its sadness and
grime has a beauty.  The dryness of the lips, as well as the word
'wind', brings to mind all the associations i have with "air"...
the suit of swords in the tarot, more of the sense of being worn
out by patriarchy.  The sexuality implied by the cracked lips
brings to mind the agonising song by P. J. Harvey "Dry"

> i look down at my own arm - starting to discolour

It is getting to me... the grime, what was more inner is now
getting to the outer

> she leads me back to a hotel where her husband
> (ex-husband) works...

It sort of follows it is ex... that worn out feeling...

> he works as the janitor or matre'd or something,

in among the grime... so far (if this were my dream) it feels
right, the woman suffering in some way, but the man is also in
the struggle

> why is she sleeping out on the sand,
> can't he put her up for the night in the hotel ?
>
> well - its all too late...

Janitors cant do that anyway, they do not really have much power.
There are bigger forces at play.

[Having read the whole dream now, i can see how cinematic it is
and how the sound track needs to be just right. this seems a
point where the music might well change]

> she explains the story - a little.. giving
> the impression that she feels the rough outline
> is good enough;
> basically, she got drunk ? or maybe she got in a
> fight.. the ex-husband grabs the narrative and
> takes over her story, only he gets a lot more
> detailed and almost vicious..
>
> he is wearing a grey working overalls. he was
> sweeping up the gray concrete,
> faux spanish-villa style archway we are
> under... though  he rests on the broom now.
>
> he says that she came to him looking for
> a place to stay - though they've been seperated
> for a while - expecting him to be able to find a
> place because of his position at the hotel
>
> how she came and stayed for a while,
> but was desperate for drugs, how
> she turned tricks, and how what with
> all of that -- well, there was no way
>  she could have a place there now..
> and on this they agree..

> she looks down about it - i myself could
> almost see the point the man was making,
> but no. i do not. i have this desire to help,
> but anyway, she says, rising from the ground
> to float above my head its all too late,
> she has been dead three months now.
>
> and that was all she wrote.

What has died in me?  I am now interested in the up and down
thing around death!  "my" last dream was falling (man + woman)
*head*ing towards death... now the feminine is dead and floating
up.  What is this too late for?

So much lost potential.  So much creativity gone dry, nothing
will be born of this, but no matter what we do (try to save it)
it can't be recovered, she is dead.

Makes me think of the things that are dead... like youth.  People
sometimes say "You are not old" and they are right, 55 is not
old, but it *is* 55, and it is right to be 55, not 25.  It is too
late for what belongs to an earlier time of my life.

I get the feeling of lost potential sometimes with certain
clients too, actually people much like this woman and man.  There
could be some sort of resolution in the therapy... but it is too
late, they can't find the money for the bus to come to the
sessions etc.

The last dream seemed to hold promise and hope for the
transformations to come, this one grief for the ones that did not
make it.

~~~

Miles, thanks for the dream, and please take only from it what
suits for you... this is not about you or your dream but if it
were mine.





> bit of a sixth sense rip off at the end there, but freaked
> the hell out of me in any event
>
>
>

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 07:28:56 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: [P] Types
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b55f8faab7c8@[207.54.160.149]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

All,

I'm weighing in on the INFP, tho the IFP are only a point
apart...working to shift my N to S in this My Summer of the Senses

Judith

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:35:35 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Circle game
In-Reply-To:  <029001bfce4a$8e2ed980$895fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert

> All the perceptions of the circle game are able to be held at the same time.
> I realise that this creates a tension, but tension is a "vital" force isn't
> it?  One can be in the centre while sitting in a row while maintaining an
> orbit of relation while in freefall ... multi-dimensional and fractal
> thinking is required *S*

*S* ??? did i miss something?  I do not know what this S is
about?

Robert, yes of course, I can hold these various perceptions of
our circle, and am not really too bad at 'multi-dimensional and
fractal thinking'.  But can one really play a game that way?
Could we for example all use the english language differently?

Using the HipBone Glass Bead Game -
http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/ for such things as the
DreamEvents http://www.psybernet.co.nz/de99description.htm means
that we are imposing a structure so that we use the same
conventions for a bit of 'multi-dimensional and fractal
thinking'.

I can see Bent in the middle of the circle now and I can hold the
others too... however I simply cant "play with them all"  in the
sense of entering into each one and responding, playing some
linear game to the end game.  This might be one of those
situations where we loose depth as we divert, divert, divert into
many directions.

How to avoid that? Leadership, rules, agreements, conventions?
Some might see this as anathema to the psyche, but look at the
last 100 years of the evolution of psychotherapy; regular 50
minute hours, for a fee in the therapist's office. That
particular "game" works well because we have gone with it for a
long time.  The particular structure might not be god given or
particularly the best, but like Windows OS it is a universal
platform with many applications that work on it.

~

I am not complaining or suggesting we should do anything
different.  I think there is merit in moving from one image to
another; letting one speak to another holding them fractally,
(what ever that means for anyone reading this, it means something
to me!)

~

Email group conventions - using threads and so on might be
helpful... but that is another topic.


Robert, I am enjoying the dialogue with you on this.


Walter




______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:49:01 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: LINES-CIRCLE-FALLING-TREE
In-Reply-To:  <PSYBER-L%2000060417514535@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wendell

Thanks for this (as I recall?) your first post to the group.
What a beautiful dream images and how they bring together the
circle and the tree.

Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:52:22 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Types
In-Reply-To:  <v04210104b5616954e0e3@[207.54.160.210]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

JB

I just did mine too INFJ (again) with the F getting a +2 ... my N
on the other hand gets a +12!

> I'm weighing in on the INFP, tho the IFP are only a point
> apart...working to shift my N to S in this My Summer of the Senses

Go well!


Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jun 2000 02:17:35 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      HTML and attachments
In-Reply-To:  <001801bfce49$7c0378c0$36c261d4@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bent,

Re: [P] Sv:      Re: [P] 5 Lines

>  Is it possible to progress the connection ?? To send a file along with the E-mail
> picture ,sound or movie with out missing the advanged of
> E-Mail reflection. It could turn up to be much more creative .???
> I need to to hold on to the change computer communication
> did to me ,ever since words in writing ,was the only way in the begining.
> Anyway why do I not recieve html e-Mails ??

The value in a mailing list like this is that it is low
bandwidth, easy to store, the archives are easily searchable, and
can be read off line.  There is a link to the guidelines below.

It is possible though to send pages to the Internet and make
links to them.  You could do that on your website Bent, it looks
good by the way.

Walter

~~~


http://www.psybernet.co.nz/pl_descript.txt

there is the following note:

| = Guidelines for Psyber-L members =
|

| * Quoting: Please keep quoting from earlier emails (using the >
|   sign) to a minimum.  Quote enough to put your response in
|   context. Please do not use more than two generations of quoting
|   (>>).
|
| * The preferred format for writing and reading the text in the
|   posts is a fixed pitch font such as Courier New, 10pt and no
|   more than 76 characters per line.  Please do not send
|   attachments, multimedia or HTML files to the list.



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:08:17 +0100
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Simon G. Trask" <simon@SIMBIOSIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: LINES-CIRCLE-FALLING-TREE
In-Reply-To:  <PSYBER-L%2000060417514535@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 5:41 pm -0400 4/6/00, Wendell M Kury wrote:
>The tree embraced the circle

Hi Wendell,

This makes me laugh whenever I read it! It's kind of
silly-playful-insightful - like a nursery rhyme, perhaps, or the
sound of one hand clapping. Quite delightful! Does a tree fall
silently in the forest if there's no-one to hear it? Does a mailing
list fall silent if no-one writes to it, or does it resonate with the
echoes of harmonies consonant and dissonant from past circles and
orbits? I see an image of history in the concentric rings of the
tree...

Simon

____________________________________________________________
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here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:59:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Simon G. Trask" <simon@SIMBIOSIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: HTML and attachments
In-Reply-To:  <v72njskecup892qcs2flu9q6evmgkdlv24@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 2:17 am +1200 6/6/00, Walter Logeman wrote:
>The value in a mailing list like this is that it is low
>bandwidth, easy to store, the archives are easily searchable, and
>can be read off line.

I'll second and third that, Walter! Actually, I was wondering if you
can set the mailing list to block HTML posts and attachments. Some
list software can do this. The trouble with auto-generated HTML is
that it invariably comes through in a font and/or point size,
sometimes even colours, that I find difficult and even unpleasant to
read, while adding nothing to the content of the message and several
K to the size. Also, HTML mails are much slower to open (on my
machine, anyway), while if you look at auto-generated HTML (which
invariably comes from a Microsoft product because they enable it as
standard and most people don't turn it off), it's appallingly
wasteful.

As for images, as you say, put 'em on a web site, provide a link, and
people will go if they want to (says he who doesn't have a website -
but no images to convey either, other than those that might be
created out of words).

>| * The preferred format for writing and reading the text in the
>|   posts is a fixed pitch font such as Courier New, 10pt and no
>|   more than 76 characters per line.  Please do not send
>|   attachments, multimedia or HTML files to the list.

The preferred format for who?? If posts are sent as plain text (ie.
no HTML/styles!), each person on the list can display them using
their own settings. Personally I only use fixed-pitch for reading
when it helps with a diagrammatic or graphical layout, such as the
circle layout here; to do that I can just click on a button in the
toolbar of each received email, and quickly switch between the screen
font and fixed-width font that I've defined in Settings.

Simon

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:27:49 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         WENDELL M KURY <wkury@LARIAT.ORG>
Subject:      Re: LINES-CIRCLE-FALLING-TREE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter,

Thank you!

When will you be in LA, and what's the mission?

Perhaps we could chat by phone when you are here in the land of the
Yanks.

Wendell

Walter Logeman wrote:

> Wendell
>
> Thanks for this (as I recall?) your first post to the group.
> What a beautiful dream images and how they bring together the
> circle and the tree.
>
> Walter
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:06:13 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What does depth mean for you?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter, All...

First, I'd like to say how much I have enjoyed hearing from recent Psyber-L
subscribers, and say welcome to all of you.

In a message dated 06/04/00 12:22:41 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ writes:

> I intended to ask simply:   What does depth mean for you?

I chose this post to respond to mostly because the pace of posts the past few
days was overwhelming, which for me contributes to my difficulty in acheiving
depth (I am assuming you refer to depth in CMC, on-line relationships here,
Walter?)

Energy and time are primary detractors in discovering depth in CMC, but I
also feel overwhelmed and scattered in the sorts of information I
increasingly must learn or put to work to be technologically informed.  Heck,
I doubt strongly that I am even close to being *even* with most of you in
terms of computer technology (but I keep trying to catch up!)

I wonder how many of you feel as overwhelmed and scattered as I do, and have
difficulty in finding the major point to focus in on?  For now it seems that
as my energies and thoughts scatter, my ability to respond moves into a
do-nothing-mode.  I admire those of you who are able to respond to so many
themes going on at once, as well as those who are able to respond to one
theme.  Paradoxically, I see these both as abilities which emerge from your
depths.

Most of all, to answer this question, Walter, depth, at least currently, is
when someone somehow shatters a stereotype or projection that I have held,
either of an individual, group, or both.  Perhaps this is more an instigator
of whatever my indepthness mode of being is, but it causes me to question my
own perception, beginning a process of changing my own vision, whether of an
ant, a tree, a person, or of nothing or everything.

I also think that when this happens, I experience a period of harmony between
my mind and soul that then extends to other areas of myself, then flows
outward.

The MB types discussion has made me a little uneasy, because it stirs some
unpleasant emotions and thoughts I have had that it may be just another form
of stereotype.  Yet it still seems a valid way of discovery of another!
Caught again in the paradoxes.,  So, I am INFP, with a strong qualifier that
I am not like any other INFP's I have ever met.

Re: The circle of Psyber-L, and further outward circles as displayed in the
URL Stephen gave us...  does what emerges in Psyber-L also sometimes emerge
in each of you individually, flowing out into real life?

A theme of my own, but maybe it ties in somewhere, is, does anyone ever have
deja-vue experiences when typing and responding to Psyber-L posts?  Or other
*peculiar* sorts of responses?  Does this seem to be an aspect of what depth
means for you?

I doubt I have addressed many of the recent themes that I have been reading
and absorbing, but I do love the communication now in Psyber-L, and hope it
continues.

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:14:25 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What does depth mean for you?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In the post I just sent, I said:

"A theme of my own, but maybe it ties in somewhere, is, does anyone ever have
deja-vue experiences when typing and responding to Psyber-L posts?  Or other
*peculiar* sorts of responses?  Does this seem to be an aspect of what depth
means for you?"

I think I should add that I have experienced deja vue sometimes when I write
an email to Psyber-L, including when I began writing my last post.

In fact, I may have experienced deja vue a number of times, but just now
decided to become aware of it!

Sheryl

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:12:26 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <025301bfcc29$4f2c6c20$9973a58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Robert G. Longpre wrote:

> Rob, even such a response, a one-liner, is valuable.  Such a response
> indicates that you are there "quietly" something that can't be seen as in
> face-to-face situations.  I put 23 names on the screen and wondered which of
> these were actually "listening."

Actually, it would mean I'm not there in Psyber-L, but am there in my
personal folders.  Posts from Psyber-L go into a different folder than
anything addressed to something that matches one of my e-mail addresses in
the To: field.  I haven't been watching Psyber-L for some time, but if
someone sent me a letter, it would pop up in a folder that I read every
hour, at least.

It's food for thought.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:54:20 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: HTML and attachments
In-Reply-To:  <p0431010cb5617495b05f@[195.200.2.138]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Simon

> I'll second and third that, Walter! Actually, I was wondering if you
> can set the mailing list to block HTML posts and attachments.

I'll check that out.  It can be done on eGroups, maybe lsoft have
that now.  There is another way to do it, which i am considering
for new groups but not this one.  To "moderate" each member and
assist them in turning off HTML and using threading, once they
have the idea, then they wont need that assistance!

> Some
> list software can do this. The trouble with auto-generated HTML is
> that it invariably comes through in a font and/or point size,
> sometimes even colours, that I find difficult and even unpleasant to
> read, while adding nothing to the content of the message and several
> K to the size.

I have my machine set to read it all as text, so I tend to get a
text version at the top and an appended HTML version.  Can you
change the setting at your end?  I pay by mega bite for the
storage of the archives so there is an economic reason as well to
keep HTML and quoting to a minimum.

> Also, HTML mails are much slower to open (on my
> machine, anyway), while if you look at auto-generated HTML (which
> invariably comes from a Microsoft product because they enable it as
> standard and most people don't turn it off), it's appallingly
> wasteful.

> As for images, as you say, put 'em on a web site, provide a link, and
> people will go if they want to (says he who doesn't have a website -
> but no images to convey either, other than those that might be
> created out of words).

And there is something to be said for the tightness of keeping it
to words.  Elegance.  On the other hand there is something to be
said for images!  (says he who now has a digital camera!) Links
are the way to go.


> >| * The preferred format for writing and reading the text in the
> >|   posts is a fixed pitch font such as Courier New, 10pt and no
> >|   more than 76 characters per line.  Please do not send
> >|   attachments, multimedia or HTML files to the list.
>
> The preferred format for who?? If posts are sent as plain text (ie.
> no HTML/styles!), each person on the list can display them using
> their own settings.

True.  I will reword it.  The idea I was wanting to convey is:

If you have a table or layout you want everyone to be able to see
the way you made it (like our circle at present) use a fixed
pitch font such as Courier New, 10pt and no more than 76
characters per line. This is a convention that is worth sticking
to, so that we can share a consistent layout when we want to.

> Personally I only use fixed-pitch for reading
> when it helps with a diagrammatic or graphical layout, such as the
> circle layout here; to do that I can just click on a button in the
> toolbar of each received email, and quickly switch between the screen
> font and fixed-width font that I've defined in Settings.

That is the idea!

~~~

I have been thinking about these conventions and the more
psychological them inherent in conventions.  Interesting.  The
WYSIWYG idea has merit on occasions only, mostly we want to
choose to see the world the way we want to see it!


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:58:56 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Circle game
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter,

*S* = smile

> Robert, yes of course, I can hold these various perceptions of
> our circle, and am not really too bad at 'multi-dimensional and
> fractal thinking'.  But can one really play a game that way?
> Could we for example all use the english language differently?

Well, for discussion's sake I will say that:
   a) we play at life this way, multidimensionally
   b) we interact with life mostly unconsciously (multidimensionally)
   c) we all do use the English language differently in order to
       build/negotiate meaning.

> I can see Bent in the middle of the circle now and I can hold the
> others too... however I simply cant "play with them all"  in the
> sense of entering into each one and responding, playing some
> linear game to the end game.  This might be one of those
> situations where we loose depth as we divert, divert, divert into
> many directions.

That is what comes with imposing structure.  We do end up not playing with
them all, this is what happens in the glassbead games when one extends the
participation to more than *two* ... moments of being outside the
game/dialogue arise.  In an attempt to be inclusive one shifts into a
fractured self mode in order to play several games within the game.

I will come back to this later in order to respond to more of your comments.
It is time for me to head to the office for a day of paid labour.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:34:10 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0006051710400.17169-100000@xenon.elemental.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob

> Actually, it would mean I'm not there in Psyber-L, but am there in my
> personal folders.  Posts from Psyber-L go into a different folder than
> anything addressed to something that matches one of my e-mail addresses in
> the To: field.  I haven't been watching Psyber-L for some time, but if
> someone sent me a letter, it would pop up in a folder that I read every
> hour, at least.
>
> It's food for thought.

I'm on some lists in that way... I sub out of curiosity and do
not participate in the group regularly.  I think that is fine for
some lists, and OK here as far as i am concerned.  Having the
archive on your disk might be useful for looking up something.
Its like having a book on the shelf that you have only read the
intro to.  I learn a lot that way, and then know where to go when
i want to go further, perhaps years later.

I am still contacting people behind the scenes occasionally...
not as a project, but when i recall them, or have something else
to write to them about.

Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:05:51 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:   Logemansdemocrati
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I been sittin in the middle of the circle for a while.

I been out away playing some nasty rock n`roll ( my hobby )
and all the gigs gave me a lot.=20
But also durin my day time been doing some nasty psykologigs
 and p=E6dagogigs.
and have not the time to follow the leads after the 5-lines
besides from reading=20

I bent_hinking about you all having a creative leadsfinding time.

and there have been a time where rules both technical and mental
have been drawn to the board.

Is Psyber_L a democrati with ground rules made of every member
or is it a walterworld ?

Love from bent

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:44:20 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: The Cola Mail System
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <s0jtjsoih8gujoiadeqe5qp3dsoc3aq9d7@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

Walter,

> I'm on some lists in that way... I sub out of curiosity and do
> not participate in the group regularly.  I think that is fine for
> some lists, and OK here as far as i am concerned.  Having the
> archive on your disk might be useful for looking up something.
> Its like having a book on the shelf that you have only read the
> intro to.  I learn a lot that way, and then know where to go when
> i want to go further, perhaps years later.

It seems more like a newspaper that piles up on your step until you either
bundle them up and throw them out or occasionally pick one up and read
through it one morning when you've got a little time.

Once they (posts and newspapers) get a couple of weeks old they aren't
very valuable any more except for research purposes.

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:29:41 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      game suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b55d647a428c@[207.54.160.158]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

Playing a 'short, simple, sweet' game is still my intention. I will present
the game in the next day or two. Certainly it could be presented privately
via the Psyber-L web publishing function. The game does have an interface,
so-to-speak.

My intention in presenting such a game to the group is to use a quick game
to vitalize the group around a collective exploration aimed at realizing
spontaneous intuitions. To tip my 'hand' today, the game is about the group
and its whole being more than the sum of its parts. It is my hope, it could
also serve a bonding function simply through the virtue of playing and
exploring together!

The singular ground rules are: (1) you don't have to participate, and (2)
having committed to participation, you don't have to do anything you don't
wish to do. (These two rules regulate all such experiential games Judith
and I facilitate.)

However, in our group of 20+ Psyber-Larians, I hope will obtain the minimum
goal for participation: 8. The entire group could play too; the game is set
up to encourage a lot of participants.

Anybody who would like to agree to play prior to the game's being
presented, may assent to do so. Bent has already done so!

playfully,

Stephen


ps. for more info on this kind of experiential process, check out
http://squareOne-learning.com





============================================================
              http://squareONE-learning.com
============================================================

'Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes!
But we've got our brave Captain to thank'
(So the crew would protest) 'that he's brought us the best -
A perfect and absolute blank!.'

- Lewis Carroll, _The Hunting of the Snark_

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:16:32 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: game suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b56bf24e9633@[207.54.160.112]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

> Anybody who would like to agree to play prior to the game's being
> presented, may assent to do so. Bent has already done so!

Sounds good to me, even though i am not sure what I am in for!
I'm in.  In 10 days or so I will be travelling for 3 weeks, that
may slow me down here, but I intend to log on regularly.

I am also happy to post up an interface or other material to the
Psybernet site if that would help.

I look forward to the action & hope we get the 8!


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:09:38 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      [P] game suggestion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Bent has already done so!
Yes ,I am still on. And I wonder what kind of
game is.=20
 In a few weeks my vacation starts and for 4 weeks
I have limited computer access.

bent
=20

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:58:32 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: game suggestion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 06/13/00 7:22:00 AM Mountain Daylight Time, hoon@APK.NET
writes:

> Anybody who would like to agree to play prior to the game's being
>  presented, may assent to do so. Bent has already done so!

I would like to play.

Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:58:53 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, Bent, Sheryl, Rob, all,

This game may be played quickly (estimated: ten days). This could synch
with peoples' plans for vacation. I'll present the game now and all will
note it is, by design, possible to be what was promised, 'short and sweet'.


***

The game: (called) THE CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS

Introduction. My intention is to create a game that is about Psyber-L. It's
intended to evoke a spontaneously soulful snapshot of the group.

This 'picture' is evoked out of a three step process that simply requires
participants to engage the game, implement a step that is a combination of
setting their own intention and hunting for and then gathering one piece of
data, submitting it to me via email, and then, reflecting on the
completed-at-once game board I compile from the submissions.


====
The game's procedure.

Step One. The facilitator will set the collective intention for the game
and present the game's procedure as well as its game board format.

INITIALIZING INTENTION: This game is intended to *resolve* a soulful
spontaneous snapshot of Psyber-L.


Step Two. Each participant is to discover, gather and submit via email *to:
hoon@apk.net*, two pieces of data:

(a) written: a one sentence intention, or wish, or question, that best
expresses -in the moment- the participant's idea about what is next for,
or, is to be learned about Psyber-L.

(b) discovered: an image, or picture, or depiction of a symbol, that in
some way resonates with this moment of engagement of the game.



Step Three: All submissions are to be submitted to the facilitator who will
then compile the submissions on the game board.

The submissions will be positioned by the facilitator in the order that
they are received. The game board will be set *all at once* in this way.



Step Four: Reflection. The game board will be revealed to both participants
and observers of the game. For this reflection, the group intention is
along the lines of: "What comes up for you? What do you see? What
connections do you sense? What resonates for you?" (etc.).
====


The reflection is to be documented as an email thread in the Psyber-L front
channel.

One rule for this experiential game, no one has to do anything they don't
feel comfortable doing.

That's it, although, I now give you a few clarifying notes.

***

notes


1. The participants will not be identified on the board. (However,
participants will be identified by their participation as persons agree to
join.)

2. Connections may be made between any positions on the board.

3. The randomizing procedure will set the first received submission at the
12 o'clock position and move clockwise as submissions are received.

4. The facilitator will set the board within 48 hours of his obtaining all
the submissions. [important: both pieces of data need to be submitted using
email. The facilitator will deal with capturing and conversion of graphic
media in cases where it is necessary. Otherwise, an email with (a) and (b)
attached to it will serve as the submission.]

5. The board will be located at Psyber-L's web publishing space and be
available to all subscribers to Psyber-L.

6. The initial intention of the game <<This game is intended to *resolve* a
soulful spontaneous snapshot of Psyber-L>> to be is placed at the center of
the board.

7. There will be a three day period to enroll participants. Next,
participants will have three days to discover, gather and submit to the
facilitator their two pieces of data. (Step two) The game board will be set
within two days of the receipt of all submissions. The period of reflection
will last as long as reflecting sustains itself; anticipated 2 days to ???.

8. Probably the most challenging part of the game is the participants'
formulation of an intention. Intention fuels the game and so they work best
when they are true expressions of where one is at in the moment and also
'hold' a kind of questing spirit to learn in what ways the parts here on
Psyber-L make up a dynamically creative *whole*.

***

Let's begin with two initial parameters: one, let's tag posts about the
game in the subject line [COC GAME] and, two, let's see if we can reach 8+
participants by Sunday midnight, my time US:est. We have four, so far.

If we get 8+ participants, I'll follow up with a short note about *hunting
and gathering* and set step two's duration.

Any questions should be directed front channel.

Thanks to all who already have, are considering, or will now or soon,
choose to give this game a shot.



What's the group about? This game provides no definitive answer, yet, like
the best snapshop, it, God(s) willing, resolves something soulfully
irrevocable and true about the group.

***

best2all,  Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:23:00 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] a few comments by Stephen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

I'd like to make a few further comments, especially about the differences
between this kind of game and the Glass Bead Game developed by Charles
Cameron and his collaborators.

Because this game completes a game board 'at once' and not through a
sequence of moves, it may be played very quickly. Likewise, the actual
moves do not require any elaborated justification or amplification when
they are made. Literally, each move pairs a sentence's worth of intention
with a picture; to make a move, all one does is create such a pair and
submit it. Submissions go back channel.

Similar to the format of the Glass Bead Game, the evocation of soul is
promised by both the intuitive and spontaneous step of making moves
(intending and 'hunting and gathering') and the period of reflection which
follows the unveiling of the completed board. *The general point of the
game is to inspire spontaneous learning and insight within a group -
exploring and discovering together.*

***

This game is not private as far as separating participants and others on
the Psyber-L. During the reflection period, all may contribute their
comments and reflections. This isn't a tight game. It is a loose game and
its containment is basket-like; a matter of weaving, then! I made this
decision so as to reinforce my intention about the game's being about the
entire group, lurkers and all.

I've consciously made the decision in structuring the game to keep the
participant's identities hidden on the game board. But, behind this
decision is my hope that such an anonymous game board strongly represents a
personal collective above and over its discrete personal constituents.

***

This game is the product of my experience as an instructional designer.
However, please understand that it's also an experimental effort. You're
all beta testers, folks. I'm hoping a short and sweet kind of game is
possible in a group such as Psyber-L. I'm confidant, yet, we'll all find
out, should we commence playing, if this sort of design lends itself to a
'short and sweet' goal.

The design is based on a long-standing proven model of adult learning:
action-reflection-learning. From my work with Judith, we've made overt a
tacit component to <action> so the model today is:
intention-action-reflection-learning. As I previously mentioned, the design
is experimental, even innovative in the way it requires a group-oriented,
(as opposed to entirely personally-oriented,) intention, and it allows for
the participation during reflection of those who up to that point were
observers.

Finally, the game is initialized by an intention focused on the group, and
in the interplay of submitted intentions and images, the game is intended
to inspire both individual and group learning set in creative motion by
collective intention, exploration, and discovery.

I don't know what will happen! I'm wishing for a-ha's, the extraordinary!



***

regards, Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:23:00 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen, Bent, Sheryl, Rob, Walter and all,

I would like to try this though my time is limited.  After reading this
morning's e-mail I got out my digital camera and took the picture that I
would like to submit when I am ready.  The image is a blend of reality and
symbolism that touches Jungian and Celtic and Ethnic chords for me.  Because
the game promises to be short I will be able to participate.  The coming
three months promise to be extremely busy.  I am quite pleased with the
concepts provided here, Stephen.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:20:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
In-Reply-To:  <002801bfd796$17c7cea0$0573a58e@cyberie>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Robert, all,

That's great, you'll give it a try. And glad to know you have an immediate
resonation to a picture.

====

*Very important* by the structure of the game, and perhaps this was not
clear in the presentation, every body's move will pass to me back-channel,
-without notice or 'cue' on the front channel- so its only to be revealed
at the point the game board is published.

There's an element of mystery-by-design: assent to participate, invisible
to Psyber-L submissions of moves, the sudden appearance of the completed
game board. Wullah!

====

So, Robert, you provide an opportunity to highlight this aspect of the
design, and, in a sense, make it a parameter. A blessed mistake -I'd call
it- due to my embedding the parameter in the big wave of presentation of
the game, where it was not made clear.

No harm done at all. The design is flexible because its a human design and
we're humans after all! Anyway, I'm doubly intrigued and appreciative.

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:30:04 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Charles Cameron <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
In-Reply-To:  <v04220801b56fc1620110@[207.54.160.47]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hoon, Walter, all:

Oaaahhhuuu, looks to be a fine game, I'll gladly play.

Regards,

--
Charles
Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
*
Senior Analyst, The Arlington Institute <chasc@arlingtoninstitute.org>
HipBone Games http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jun 2000 02:20:42 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] a few comments by Stephen
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b56fc0d4dfc3@[207.54.160.47]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

Thanks for this contribution!

Robert,

Great that you are able to make the time... (and that this is a
*short and sweet* game!)

Charles,

This is a pleasure, good to see you here, particularly as it
means that you were never far away!

I thought of your train analogy the other day... groups like this
are trains.  Now it feels as if we have all been on the train for
a long while, it has been going through deserts and tunnels and
night times, and now there is a stirring and we see there are in
fact other passengers.


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:14:36 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
In-Reply-To:  <v04220801b56fc1620110@[207.54.160.47]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Stephen,

One "small" question
<5. The board will be located at Psyber-L's web publishing space and be
available to all subscribers to Psyber-L.>

What does this mean "web publishing space" I think i recall trying to
understand this when Walter posted a link...unsuccessfully

Judith

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:08:29 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
In-Reply-To:  <l03130300b56fdc0b23bf@[63.20.81.195]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Charles,

Yes, my hopes, and hopingknowing they're possibly shared, are for a fine
game. Very happy to have you aboard.

Let me find my hand; okay, there are six of us as of Saturday am, est.

Now hoping for two more!

best2all,

Stephen

===
>Oaaahhhuuu, looks to be a fine game, I'll gladly play.
>
>Regards,
>
>--
>Charles

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:16:10 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] reply to ONE SMALL QUESTION
In-Reply-To:  <v04210104b57048d925d9@[207.54.160.181]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Stephen,
>
>One "small" question
><5. The board will be located at Psyber-L's web publishing space and be
>available to all subscribers to Psyber-L.>
>
>What does this mean "web publishing space" I think i recall trying to
>understand this when Walter posted a link...unsuccessfully
>
>Judith

Judith,

Walter will post a URL to Psyber-L for the page that contains the board at
the point I've delivered the page to him. He has some options as to where
to publish it. You'll need the password for your access to the archives. If
you don't have one you can start from:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html or access
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?GETPW1=A1=ind0006%26L=psyber-l
to create one. This applies to anyone who has not yet accessed the list via
the web.

regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 08:17:25 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <v04220801b57145018eb4@[207.54.160.14]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

My wish is for at least two persons to choose to participate in THE CIRCLE
OF CONNECTIONS game by the end of the day. This will give us a group of a 8
or more.

Hypothesis: since this group will be taking a "depth" snapshot of Psyber-L,
the more who are able to and choose to help take this picture, the better
resolution it will have.

Playing this game could be fun, too. I don't think I've mentioned that
before!

best regards,

Stephen




ps today I have to do a computer repair so I may not be back online until
this evening, or tomorrow.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:52:58 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

I have been too busy lately to keep up with the particulars and instructions
for participation in the game.  Has there been one, or could someone explain
how it works.  How much time commitment will be required?  Must we be oneline
all at once?  I don't any clear idea of what we are being asked to do at this
point.

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:07:36 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         miles thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      Fw: [P] [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

front / back


channel chat ?

----- Original Message -----
From: Miles
To: Stephen
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [P] [COC GAME] Presenting the CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS GAME


> ive been following this discussion with great interest..
>
> now that it is presented.. do i stick my name down somewhere
> before we begin ?
>
> if so.. i think i would like to play..
>
> so yeah.. ready to start i guess..
>
> this is not my move of course..
>
> --
> mles thompson
> miles@mail.com
> switch.to/miles
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:11:54 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         miles thompson <utunga@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
Subject:      Re: participation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

> The game: (called) THE CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS
>
> Introduction. My intention is to create a game that is=20
> about Psyber-L. It's intended to evoke a spontaneously=20
> soulful snapshot of the group.

did i forget to mention that this looks like
a great game !!

I'm really looking forward to creating this
snapshot.. this will be fun..

well done Stephen ( or should that be Calhoun?)

hmm...

at work now, so must keep this short

with love, Miles

ps.. when do we start ?

--
miles thompson
miles@mail.com
http://switch.to/miles

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jun 2000 18:30:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <13.6c94d30.267e667a@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Greg,
Hello. I've appended below the game presentation posted earlier. Four step
game:

1. PRESENTATION & ENROLLMENT ends 6/17; need 8 to play; have 6

2. GATHERING, THEN SUBMISSION OF MOVES TO ME BACK-CHANNEL ends 6/20*

3. COMPILATION & PUBLISHING OF THE FINISHED BOARD @PSYBERNET
WEB BY ME by 6/22*

4. REFLECTION ON THE BOARD starting 6/22, minimum 3 days

Game would last until at least 6/25. (* estimated)

===

Your questions,

-How much time commitment will be required?

From today the game will last eight days at least.

-Must we be oneline all at once?

No. You need to be online a some point to submit as an email attachment
your combined text+image move; to view the finished game board on the web;
to submit any reflections, intuitions, insights gleaned from your
engagement of the game and board.

I hope the instructions here and issued previously help. Obviously, and
more so to me now, in promising a quick game, I've presumed the
instructions are adequate and also presumed that their needn't be a
familiarizing kind of ramping up, an introductory period if you will. But
this kind of speedy unveiling of a game is a bit presumptuous!

We'll see what happens. As mentioned before, 'rushing to play' this way is
a sudden burst of 'experimental activity' on Psyber-L. Lucky me, I live in
bursts like this, yet it may strike some as a bit too much. I've learned a
lot already!

My best estimate of the total commitment this game requires is 3+ hours
depending on how participants approach gathering of their data (which
constitutes their move) and how much time is spent regarding the game board
and then writing down one's contribution and sending it to Psyber-L.

Hope this helps!

regards, Stephen

==

The game: (called) THE CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS

Introduction. My intention is to create a game that is about Psyber-L. It's
intended to evoke a spontaneously soulful snapshot of the group.

This 'picture' is evoked out of a three step process that simply requires
participants to engage the game, implement a step that is a combination of
setting their own intention and hunting for and then gathering one piece of
data, submitting it to me via email, and then, reflecting on the
completed-at-once game board I compile from the submissions.

===

The game's procedure.

Step One. The facilitator will set the collective intention for the game
and present the game's procedure as well as its game board format.

INITIALIZING INTENTION: This game is intended to *resolve* a soulful
spontaneous snapshot of Psyber-L.

Step Two. Each participant is to discover, gather and submit via email *to:
hoon@apk.net*, two pieces of data:

(a) written: a one sentence intention, or wish, or question, that best
expresses -in the moment- the participant's idea about what is next for,
or, is to be learned about Psyber-L.

(b) discovered: an image, or picture, or depiction of a symbol, that in
some way resonates with this moment of engagement of the game.

Step Three: All submissions are to be submitted to the facilitator who will
then compile the submissions on the game board.

The submissions will be positioned by the facilitator in the order that
they are received. The game board will be set *all at once* in this way.

Step Four: Reflection. The game board will be revealed to both participants
and observers of the game. For this reflection, the group intention is
along the lines of: "What comes up for you? What do you see? What
connections do you sense? What resonates for you?" (etc.).

===

The reflection is to be documented as an email thread in the Psyber-L front
channel.

One rule for this experiential game, no one has to do anything they don't
feel comfortable doing.

That's it, although, I now give you a few clarifying notes.

***

notes

1. The participants will not be identified on the board. (However,
participants will be identified by their participation as persons agree to
join.)

2. Connections may be made between any positions on the board.

3. The randomizing procedure will set the first received submission at the
12 o'clock position and move clockwise as submissions are received.

4. The facilitator will set the board within 48 hours of his obtaining all
the submissions. [important: both pieces of data need to be submitted using
email. The facilitator will deal with capturing and conversion of graphic
media in cases where it is necessary. Otherwise, an email with (a) and (b)
attached to it will serve as the submission.

5. The board will be located at Psyber-L's web publishing space and be
available to all subscribers to Psyber-L.

6. The initial intention of the game <<This game is intended to *resolve* a
soulful spontaneous snapshot of Psyber-L>> to be is placed at the center of
the board.

7. There will be a three day period to enroll participants. Next,
participants will have three days to discover, gather and submit to the
facilitator their two pieces of data. (Step two) The game board will be set
within two days of the receipt of all submissions. The period of reflection
will last as long as reflecting sustains itself; anticipated 2 days to ???.

8. Probably the most challenging part of the game is the participants'
formulation of an intention. Intention fuels the game and so they work best
when they are true expressions of where one is at in the moment and also
'hold' a kind of questing spirit to learn in what ways the parts here on
Psyber-L make up a dynamically creative *whole*.

***

Let's begin with two initial parameters: one, let's tag posts about the
game in the subject line [COC GAME] and, two, let's see if we can reach 8+
participants by Sunday midnight, my time US:est. We have four, so far.

If we get 8+ participants, I'll follow up with a short note about *hunting
and gathering* and set step two's duration.

Any questions should be directed front channel.

Thanks to all who already have, are considering, or will now or soon,
choose to give this game a shot.

What's the group about? This game provides no definitive answer, yet, like
the best snapshop, it, God(s) willing, resolves something soulfully
irrevocable and true about the group.

***

best2all,  Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:37:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b5727b05449b@[207.54.160.218]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

It's a beautiful morning here in Cleveland. My 17" monitor passed away
yesterday so I'm writing and reading email today on a 10 1/2" old Apple
monitor. feels like looking through a keyhole into Psyber-L.

***

Our game status is as follows:

The current folks who wish to play:

Walter
Rob
Bent
Miles
Charles
Cheryl
Robert

That's 7. Wonderful! (Have I missed anybody?) I am today extending the
deadline to tomorrow a.m. est so as to fulfill the stated minimum of 8 and
also -it is my own hope- give this group a bit more 'gender' balance if
possible.

Will the game be played with 7? Yes. Could the game be played with 23?
Sure! :-)

***

Now I'm going to go out and get a new monitor because I don't care to
create the game board by looking into the key holes of my graphics programs.

Thanks to all for considering their participation in the game, and to the
players, I'm especially appreciative.

peace. Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:13:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 06/19/2000 7:31:49 AM Mountain Daylight Time, hoon@APK.NET
writes:

> The current folks who wish to play:
>
>  Walter
>  Rob
>  Bent
>  Miles
>  Charles
>  Cheryl
>  Robert

Stephen:

It is me, Sheryl, who wishes to play.  Sheryl who connects herself to
pumpkinness.  Sheryl in Colorado.  Sheryl with an S.  Sheryl Garner who has
posted to Psyber-L off and on, with a year absence, since the second of the
Psyber-L groups (I've forgotten the name, and it isn't on the Psyber-L
website, Walter, has it become just a blip in my own memory?), in which I was
a member.

I don't remember seeing any posts from Cheryl Foltos recently (and I have
missed them).  I believe you and possibly others confuse her with me, but I
believe that she would also want to be identified as uniquely herself, not
confused with me.

I am looking forward to this COC game, Stephen.  Thank you for the
opportunity to participate and the time and effort you are putting into it.

I am also feeling a little vulnerable this morning, probably acting out my
frustration of not being *seen* but I just want it to be understood in
Psyber-L that I am me.  Sheryl.  Thanks :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:11:51 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Janell F. Adair" <jfadair9@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen:

    I'm not really great on these kind of games buy I'll play if you need
another and it'll help to give the game a little more gender balance.

    Let me know.

     Janell



----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 10:37 AM
Subject: [P] [COC GAME] participation


> all,
>
> It's a beautiful morning here in Cleveland. My 17" monitor passed away
> yesterday so I'm writing and reading email today on a 10 1/2" old Apple
> monitor. feels like looking through a keyhole into Psyber-L.
>
> ***
>
> Our game status is as follows:
>
> The current folks who wish to play:
>
> Walter
> Rob
> Bent
> Miles
> Charles
> Cheryl
> Robert
>
> That's 7. Wonderful! (Have I missed anybody?) I am today extending the
> deadline to tomorrow a.m. est so as to fulfill the stated minimum of 8 and
> also -it is my own hope- give this group a bit more 'gender' balance if
> possible.
>
> Will the game be played with 7? Yes. Could the game be played with 23?
> Sure! :-)
>
> ***
>
> Now I'm going to go out and get a new monitor because I don't care to
> create the game board by looking into the key holes of my graphics
programs.
>
> Thanks to all for considering their participation in the game, and to the
> players, I'm especially appreciative.
>
> peace. Stephen
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:59:54 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <000601bfda19$d95c36c0$578d1d3f@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Stephen,
As I said, I posted a "yes" which seems to have been lost.
Judith

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:11:22 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      COC Game
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

I hope that I did catch up with the speed of this game. In other words =
I=B4m late.
Bent

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:52:04 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Sheryl ... being seen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl,

I have seen you and have watched/listened to your posts from that time of a
different host service for PSYBER-L.  I know you as a pumpkin child.  And, I
am glad that you are part of this COC game.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:56:50 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Janell ... yes please stay
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Janell,

I would like to have you as part of the game.  I do agree with Stephen that
gender balance is desirable.  With you, Sheryl, and Judith we will have
three women for six men (Walter, Stephen, Bent, Miles, Rob, and myself).
Looking forward to hearing more soon.

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:04:22 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <c5.6a1c8c6.267fbce7@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sheryl,

Excuse me -please- for not spelling your name correctly. It's a long
standing slippage of mine that predates the time here. That's not an excuse
of course for my lack of attention to this detail.

But, you are seen by me for sure. I very well knew it was you who wished to
play.

And am glad for your willingness to do so.

***

thanks,

Stephen with a 'ph'

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:08:34 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <000601bfda19$d95c36c0$578d1d3f@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Janell,

I'd enjoy having you play the game with us. The best reason to play is your
own. If you'd like to just post and say, "I'm playing!" or something to
that effect then you'd be 'on board'. <g>

One thing about this kind of game: it's not something to be good or bad at;
nor is it anything like games with right or wrong answers, or winners or
losers.

In fact, the game simply demands the player be *at it*. What do you feel
about a game like that?

sincerely,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:06:42 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

Count me in if it is not too late, and if it doesn't mess up the gender
balance too much.  Hope I can participate fully.  This is a very busy time
for me.

Greg

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:19:55 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <a6.5eb1886.268039c2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greg, all,

Greg, glad you and all those others are joining up and that there
is now over the minimum Stephen wanted!

I have just printed out the instructions and am about to study
them carefully over my afternoon tea (coffee).

I'll be busy too.  On saturday we go overseas, will be in LA that
day.  I have a big list of ISPs I can ring from there on my
"roaming" account.  Got to see it work to believe it though.


Walter




______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:28:34 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] participation
In-Reply-To:  <c5.6a1c8c6.267fbce7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sheryl,

> It is me, Sheryl, who wishes to play.  Sheryl who connects herself to
> pumpkinness.  Sheryl in Colorado.  Sheryl with an S.  Sheryl Garner who has
> posted to Psyber-L off and on, with a year absence, since the second of the
> Psyber-L groups (I've forgotten the name, and it isn't on the Psyber-L
> website, Walter, has it become just a blip in my own memory?), in which I was
> a member.

I think you are referring to the thing I called PWP or something.
Psyber-L to Web Page.  That was a tricky go at some sort of
"game"... I did remove it as i needed to trim the site down a
bit.  I have it here, and can put it back up if you like.

What i learnt from that game was not to be democratic within the
game.  For example I gave it that general name so we "as a group"
could name it.  This time Stephen has named the game!  Way to go.

I think he is democratic as well though, this game picks up on
themes of the group... good listening!

~~~

> I don't remember seeing any posts from Cheryl Foltos recently (and I have
> missed them).  I believe you and possibly others confuse her with me, but I
> believe that she would also want to be identified as uniquely herself, not
> confused with me.

I am sure that is right... she is not on the list at present.

> I am also feeling a little vulnerable this morning, probably acting out my
> frustration of not being *seen* but I just want it to be understood in
> Psyber-L that I am me.  Sheryl.  Thanks :)

Hi Sheryl!


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:13:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Name confustion
In-Reply-To:  <5notks4hcl9d03n6rtkpb3a9adgic95f4f@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Sheryl,

<> I don't remember seeing any posts from Cheryl Foltos recently (and I have
> missed them).  I believe you and possibly others confuse her with me, but I
> believe that she would also want to be identified as uniquely herself, not
> confused with me.>

There is no confusion for me...very unique tone emitted by the
messages you each posted...I enjoy each of you uniquely!

Blessings,
Judith

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:50:44 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Sheryl Garner <CMCPsych@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Name confustion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith, Robert, Stephen, Walter, All...

Thank you all for responding with such graciousness to my
name-confusion-outburst post.  Especially to you Stephen - you surely must
have your hands full organizing the COC game, which by the way, I'm looking
forward to seeing happen more and more!

In fact, I see a rejuvenation of Psyber-L in anticipation of the game, and I
am really liking that.

In a message dated 06/20/2000 5:21:50 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
judithb@APK.NET writes:

> There is no confusion for me...very unique tone emitted by the
>  messages you each posted...I enjoy each of you uniquely!

As I always have your posts, Judith, and Robert's, Stephen's and Walter's.  I
think I have always appreciated everyone who has contributed to Psyber-L, in
whatever form, and thinking back, I remember so many, some still here, some
not.

After all, not everyone is drawn to a list, a group, like this one :)

Thanks again, all.
Sheryl

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:04:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] Thursday update
In-Reply-To:  <5notks4hcl9d03n6rtkpb3a9adgic95f4f@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

to all game participants and observers,

Psyber-L slows down as the game commences. Yet, in the mysterious
background the game is being played. Several moves have been received by
hoon@apk.net as of today.

There is even some mystery as to who is playing. Janell has joined the
group of players. Perhaps an eleventh has also joined, via the submission
of a move. Fantastic!

***

The game board has been created. . .remains veiled.

***

The facilitator assumes the players will some time in the next few days
direct their attention to the creation of their move; imagines them hunting
and gathering. Wonders how they will choose to explore to discover (create?
intuit? sense?...) the intention and image that grips them, resonates
deeply, and resolves into their single move in this hoped for 'short and
sweet' game.

***

best to everybody,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:06:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] STEP TWO has begun
In-Reply-To:  <5notks4hcl9d03n6rtkpb3a9adgic95f4f@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

This is exciting! We have ten, possibly eleven participants as of this
morning. And, by-gum, we're going to now play a game, collectively effect a
modest experiment in online experiential learning,

and take a snapshot of Psyber-L using a CIRCLE OF CONNECTIONS as our 'film'.

***

Step Two. Each participant is to discover, gather and submit via email *to:
hoon@apk.net*, two pieces of data:

(a) written: a one sentence intention, or wish, or question, that best
expresses -in the moment- the participant's idea about what is next for,
or, is to be learned about Psyber-L. ***SUBMIT TO hoon@apk.net****

(b) discovered: an image, or picture, or depiction of a symbol, that in
some way resonates with this moment of engagement of the game. ***SUBMIT TO
hoon@apk.net****

***

In submitting to me (use->hoon@apk.net) your written intention, please keep
it powerfully concise. You may tell me about background material,
amplifications, elaborations, but those comments will not be part of the
game board. (They may be re-sent to Psyber-L *after the game board is
unveiled*.)

Images will be small on the board but will link to versions in the size you
send me. I may contact some of you if I think it valuable to have you see
what the re-sized version looks like before it is incorporated in the board.

*Very Important* If any of you have never used your email software to
either 'embed' or attach a file, let me know and I'll send you
instructions. Generally, you simply drag a picture to the body of the
message. And send it.

***

*Also important* What the game will look like over the next few days is:
not much happening on the Psyber-L 'channel'. It will be fairly quiet
because participants will be hunting and gathering and submitting 'behind
the scenes' and *submitting to hoon@apk.net*. Yes, this element of mystery
is intentional.

Questions about the game should be asked in Psyber-L.

On Thursday e.s.t I'll note how much more time may be needed for Step Two.
Perhaps, at that point, Step Two will be over.

We'll see.

best to all,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:47:14 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      [P] [COC GAME] STEP TWO has begun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

dear all
=20
Now am I way out of line or not. I thought i was behind and have send
a line and a picture I thougt that it was the first step ,but is that  =
the second
step. ???or did i miss something.? help

Today my holiday for 4 weeks starts. I been woorking my arse red.
And i have opend up 2 bottles of red wine and me and my wife and
 my 19 years old doughter are having a relaxed evening with loud=20
stereo music.
 next week we are going to a rock festival together with my son also
and a lots of young freinds.
look at  http://www.roskilde-festival.dk. to see what i am up to.
  Its a good oportunity to take the tempreture of the youth and its
a old tradition to go to roskilde.

love Bent
 .

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:50:12 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Sv:      [P] [COC GAME] STEP TWO has begun
In-Reply-To:  <000601bfdd43$738e0da0$abc761d4@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Bent,

Not to worry...you have completed what Stephen is calling Step 2
(send a line and a picture)...Step 1 was signing up to play the
game...all is well...

Happy holiday,
Judith

>dear all
>
>Now am I way out of line or not. I thought i was behind and have send
>a line and a picture I thougt that it was the first step ,but is
>that  the second
>step. ???or did i miss something.? help
>
>snip
>love Bent
> .
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
>here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:43:12 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] Saturday update
In-Reply-To:  <v04220800b5755fe128b6@[207.54.160.22]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

to all game participants and observers,

I've received seven moves as of this morning, est. Tomorrow sometime I will
set the time at which I need to receive moves prior to my plugging them
into the game board.

By the same reasoning (embedded in the structuring of the game,) aimed at a
'sudden' unveiling of the board, I will also plug in all the moves "at
once". (I'm not plugging moves in as I receive them.) For now I am simply
insuring I have the moves (text+image) where I can find them.

I will confirm receipt back-channel of moves received, and tomorrow send
out queries to all who's moves have not yet been received. Remember, even
if you have agreed to participate, you don't have to make a move, *but*,
once the game board is unveiled, no moves will be added to it.

Remaining moves should be emailed to me: hoon@apk.net.

***

Of course I do read and look at the moves as they are received, so I safely
say: *the moves read and look very exciting; and they promise a very
intriguing unveiling*.

highest regards,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:04:26 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] Saturday update

hi all,

Posting in a rush from LA.  Will be able to respond full in a few days when I
am in london.  Hard to do this from an unfamiliar machine, via the web, lousy
keyboard, dark, but i have been at least able to read your post Stephen, but
not been able to access my private ones.  I will be able to do that easily
once i find a phone to connect o as opposed to a machine that is online.
Looking forward to the next phase,--- will do my bit in london next tuesday,
apologies for the delay.

LA has been awsome so far.  Riding the freeways!  the 405, the 101, 73, 5,
heheheh.  Saw Hollywood bynight and also by hyperreality in the Universal
studio!

Great to see Rebecca!

Soon,

Love



Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:30:37 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] Monday update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

This morning I've confirmed submissions with all players who have made
their moves. I've also asked the players who have not yet made moves to
give me some feedback about the amount of time they will need to do so.

This will allow me to set a deadline for submissions in the next 12-24
hours. Given this deadline, the COC Game Board will be unveiled within 48
hours after the last move has been submitted.

God Willing.

***

best2all, Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:51:49 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      Saturday update; driving in L.A.
In-Reply-To:  <PSYBER-L%2000062604042707@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Walter, all,

>LA has been awsome so far.  Riding the freeways!  the 405, the 101, 73, 5,
>heheheh.

This brought back a memory of a synchronous reminder delivered on Robertson
Blvd. on the west side of L.A. in 1991.

I had made a fantastically ill-considered decision to move to L.A. to allow
myself to get 'inserted' in the music business. I threw a dufflebag with
clothes, sun screen, and several hundred cassettes in the back of my 83
Honda Accord, and made my way across the country to seek my half-baked
destiny.

I met my 'contact' (actually a very close friend long ensconced in the biz
there,) at a Thai restaurant on Sunset Blvd. at 'happy hour' time. He
needed to make a stop in Santa Monica and then we would proceed to his
'crib'. (It didn't exist, but that's another story!)

So, just off the freeway, exhausted/elated, I was to follow ('tail') him.
Background: he was at sixteen a lunatic driver; same: 20+ years later. I
was glad not to be driving with him. He gave me one bit of advice,

        "If you get into a fender bender, keep driving. The police only
come if a car is disabled or somebody is hurt."

It was a wild ride during rush hour. He blew through yellow and red lights
and I did the same. (I'm a painfully cautious driver, normally.) We turned
onto Robertson Blvd. and as we neared a big intersection a parked car on my
right pulled out into my front fender.

Fender bender. I immediately slowed and then sped up. I thought to myself,

'Should I even be here?'

It took me many months of denial before I realized,

'Nope'.

***

Sometimes you have to grind away the fantasy to see the track your standing
on leads in a different direction. L.A. was fodder for a lot of grinding
and remarkable events. In my heart, I'm a Vermonter, (a beautiful laid back
locale in New England)...

thanks for the memory jog,

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:58:12 -0500
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Stephen Calhoun <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      [COC GAME] : timeframe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

all,

It's Thursday evening here in the midwest, USA.

The deadline for moves is tomorrow evening, my time here which is eastern
standard time, 9pm.

This isn't inflexible in the sense that I won't compile and assemble the
completed game board until Friday, and with sending it to Walter to post,
given his traveling and computer access uncertainties, the game board won't
likely be published until Sunday at the earliest. This will be news to
Walter too, so I'll anticipate learning from him what works best. The
timeframe will become more exact given his feedback.

***

The entire Psyber-L list will receive notification on the list of:

(1) the URL of the game board

(2) the password needed to access it.

At the point you receive this notification, you will be able to access it
using your web browser. I'll also suggest some tips for 'reflection', but
you'll fundamentally be on your own in this mission of discovery and
learning.

***

I've been receiving various moves for the past week, and it is, for me,
very exciting.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing what unfolds in the aftermath of
the 'unveiling'..

***

thanks to all!

Stephen

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:25:04 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: [COC GAME] : timeframe
In-Reply-To:  <v04220801b57f17e73ab8@[207.54.160.95]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen, all,

> This isn't inflexible in the sense that I won't compile and assemble the
> completed game board until Friday, and with sending it to Walter to post,
> given his traveling and computer access uncertainties, the game board won't
> likely be published until Sunday at the earliest. This will be news to
> Walter too, so I'll anticipate learning from him what works best.

Sounds good, and am now fully online here in London, with more
than my usual amount of time on my hands!  I can see there wont
be many delays at this end... touch some virtual wood!

More soon.

Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:35:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: game suggestion
In-Reply-To:  <d51fksotk8gtv302u6h11drhr3susnc9p3@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Stephen,

I'll give it a try but my brain isn't functioning very well with the
alergy meds I'm taking...or it could be lack of sleep

Judith

>Stephen,
>
> > Anybody who would like to agree to play prior to the game's being
> > presented, may assent to do so. Bent has already done so!
>
>Sounds good to me, even though i am not sure what I am in for!
>I'm in.  In 10 days or so I will be travelling for 3 weeks, that
>may slow me down here, but I intend to log on regularly.
>
>I am also happy to post up an interface or other material to the
>Psybernet site if that would help.
>
>I look forward to the action & hope we get the 8!
>
>
>Walter

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:57:09 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Subject:      At the RCA London

Stephen, All,

was:  Re: Saturday update; driving in L.A.

>Sometimes you have to grind away the fantasy to see the track your standing
>on leads in a different direction. L.A. was fodder for a lot of grinding
>and remarkable events. In my heart, I'm a Vermonter, (a beautiful laid back
>locale in New England)...

In your heart you are a Vermonter, but you are not actually there are you?
Geography escapes on the net as Philladelphia means much the same as
Conneticut from where i sit. (is it one of thosw places where you are
Stephen?) I think I have my own Vermont right there in NZ, and travelling
makes that more obvious.  Marvelous to see the world, but also to see home in
a new light from the blast of LA and London.

I am here writing using the web interface on a Mac at the Royal Collage of
Art.  Josh is presenting his final peice of work for the Computer Related
Design course he has just PASSED!  A fron line seat is available at:  http://
www.crd.rca.ac.uk/~josh -- Prototype world it is called.  It is a nice bit of
work in my opinion.  It is strong on Moreno Sociometry and has developed som
nice ways of doing sociometric tests.  It would be nice to do a continuum in
this group, I'll see if he can give us password access to a private space?
Can be done he just tells me, but would take him a day or so!  I doubt he
will find that time but it could be fun!

Josh has just been showing me his stuff... I am impressed with his GroupTools
presentation...  http://www.crd.rca.ac.uk/~josh/school.html -- (you can see
where he gets some of his ideas from :)  Charles, In that last item he has a
reference to Hipbone.

It is fantastic to be around these innovative people here... it is easy to
see that there are waves upon waves of new ways of being in cyberspace are
just around the corner.

I do not mean in the sense of new electronic or physical tedchnology, but
rather that the *uses* these things will be put to will develop.  We are not
doing too bad here imo with our radical Circle Game.

All for now,


Walter

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