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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 May 2000 10:37:46 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Impact of internet on communities - on and offline
In-Reply-To:  <p0431010bb51577cf9a66@[195.200.19.5]>
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Simon,

I am going back to a post you wrote a while back, in response to Robert's
project

  Re: [P] Zenon Park, Saskatchewan
  Sun, 9 Apr 2000 01:21:18 +0100

> There was a program on TV here a few weeks back that followed the
> Internet adventures of a street of people. The production company
> behind the program had loaned every household in the (short!) street
> a PC, got them hooked up to the Internet, and for the week-long
> experiment paid their Internet access phone bills. Also, they
> specifically chose a street in the area of the country with the
> lowest Internet takeup (I think it was Sunderland). As part of this
> experiment they also set up a web chat board for the residents, and
> gave them all anonymous access. One of the many interesting findings
> to come out of this experiment was that having this Internet meeting
> place and its associated anonymity actually got people together in
> physical space. People who in their normal day-to-day lives kept to
> themselves and never spoke to one another ended up arranging a
> get-together in the local pub.

I have seen info around too that while people expected email to connect people
who were physically distant, replacing letters, a big whack of it goes to people
in the same office and to local family and friends, people we would not have
posted letters to.  There was also a story of a company who head hunted a
designer with an excellent reputation.  In the new company at their first
meeting he was mute... what was the problem?  "I cant work like this, I need
email."

The point is that email and digitalisation provides more than communication, but
a record, a visual layout (eg emails sorted by date, author, linear or threaded)
and it is searchable, and it has permanence... look how easy it is for me to
pick up where you left off Simon (the timing was too long, I know, time still
matters!) even though it was long, and we may have lost the warmup it is at
least *possible* to continue.

In that program it got people together, but it has not been like that for me...
occasionally it scares me how physically anti-social i have become.  Being
involved in online dialogue, at my pace and depth, is involving, and at times
exciting, awaiting the next post.  I then feel somewhat bored at parties or
dinners, finding myself pining for the screen... not the screen... the world
beyond the screen.

What do people in the same street have in common?  Lots i guess, however the
"differences" are perhaps more interesting than the similarities... in this
street as well as in Zenon Park, I wonder if, once the collective learning about
the net wears off if people will spread out again.

I just recalled a story my father told me about his first radio experience,
Amsterdam, working class, maybe after or during the first war?  People had
clubbed together to buy a set, and his father was the operator, and people would
gather around to listen at scheduled times. There was a lot of twiddling of
knobs and so on, but it bought people together physically.  A far cry from me
downloading radio to tape and listening to it on my walkman!

I wrote:

> >I am in a group that meets face to face, and we also meet online.
> >The longest and most used thread is Re: f2f where we discuss
> >plans for the next meeting.  Every rl group should have its
> >virtual space I think, it is so easy to plan the meetings and
> >alter dates etc.

You responded Simon:
> This is a commonality-of-interest community, Walter? The online
> aspect sounds utilitarian.

The actual content often is far from utilitarian, we share feelings, crisis,
triumphs etc.  The utilitarian aspect is hard to distinguish from the fact that
it has made the viability of meeting face to face possible for four people with
incredibly different schedules.

It is common interest... the online world and our various enterprises, however
it is also undefined, and thus anything goes.

> A different
> quality of communication online and f2f? Do interactions follow the
> same patterns in both situations?

A different feel to it for sure, hard to say... we post up links and so on
line... same warmth.

> I guess if there's no anonymity of
> identity then the same patterns hold. One of the interesting issues
> in groupware is the impact of anonymous-identity communication, it
> can be a way to break down institutionalised barriers to
> inter-communication.

Anonymity has degrees i think.  I am not just thinking of the real name / handle
thing.  My face is not present here, my body is not visible even though i have
my real name.  Maybe only one or two people on this list will ever see me.  Is
that important?

I think the most important thing is that there are new "institutions" virtual
entities, the institution of "Psyber-L" exists, cutting across all other
entities, race and class and so on, even if imperfectly. We "corporate" in
online groups... we can belong in new ways.

All for now,


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 May 2000 02:21:15 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Welcome Barrett
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Welcome Barrett

Good to have you join our mailing list.

Thanks for posting your introductory words to me with your
request... I have added them below so that others can respond and
welcome you to our midst.


Walter



~~~~

name:  barrett culmback

organization:  none.  retired professor Philosophical Psychology/
Eastern Religions from a "major" university.

long-standing interest in your subject-matter, hence the request
to subscribe to this group.

please inform if you require more information.

B. Culmback
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 May 2000 03:50:03 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Welcome Wendell
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Welcome Wendell,

Thanks for joining this group.  Below is your introduction.  I look forward to
your contributions. I hope you find this a good place to be.


Walter


~~~~



Greetings Walter Logeman,

I was checking out Jung on the Web, and became immediately intrigued by
PSYBER-L.

I was quite taken by Jung during my psychiatry training at Stanford as well
as the mythologist Joseph Campbell.  I had a personal Jungian analysis for
several years, and used dream work in working with individuals, couples, and
groups.

Also I studied Milton Erickson along with derivatives, and included that in
my psychotherapeutic approaches.

More recently I've focused on the spiritual aspects of healing including
interest in folk like Thomas Moore.

Also of note is that I spent three months as a work-scholar at the Esalen
Institute near Big Sur, CA; Esalen is a center of the human potential
movement.

For the last ten years I've lived in Laramie, Wyoming.  I enjoy living at
7000 feet in a rural region, but sometimes it feels too remote and isolated.

I got into computers upon arrival here, and my interests include the
potential of psychological/spiritual community and healing in cyberspace.

I also write poetry, some of which has been published.

I view participation in PSYBER-L as a place to rekindle and enhance some of
the interests I've mentioned.

Coincidently I've wanted to visit New Zealand for some time.

Thank you for your consideration.

Wendell M Kury


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 May 2000 01:38:46 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Welcome Barrett
In-Reply-To:  <ttrfis0n6te2puqr8hko2aigdmci8fdqrp@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Barrett

> organization:  none.  retired professor Philosophical Psychology/
> Eastern Religions from a "major" university.

Your background sounds marvelous.  How is retirement?  Sounds
like the sort of subject matter that only gets better after
retirement?

> long-standing interest in your subject-matter, hence the request
> to subscribe to this group.

I am sure the aims of this group will be of interest... the
essential "subject matter" here is like the subjects you mention,
and as the name Psyber-L implies, looking at those things in
cyberspace.


> please inform if you require more information.


Nothing required, but I'd like to hear more!


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 May 2000 01:56:41 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Welcome Wendell
In-Reply-To:  <071gis42cj14j58ltd9uccvt1fgpf3bnmt@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wendell

> I was checking out Jung on the Web, and became immediately intrigued by
> PSYBER-L.

I hope it can match your intrigue, this group has gone quiet,
painfully so, i find. I have been thinking about its future, and
have a few ideas.  More on that soon.

>  Jung, Joseph Campbell, Milton Erickson, Thomas Moore.

You mention names that appeal and are relevant to the psyche and
the discussions here.

> For the last ten years I've lived in Laramie, Wyoming.  I enjoy living at
> 7000 feet in a rural region, but sometimes it feels too remote and isolated.

Sounds marvelous.  I have a house in the hills where i often go
to be alone, not that high though, more like 4500 ft. but the
snow will be close to the house soon.

> I got into computers upon arrival here, and my interests include the
> potential of psychological/spiritual community and healing in cyberspace.

How are you doing with that?  Have you found ways beyond the
potential?

> I also write poetry, some of which has been published.
>
> I view participation in PSYBER-L as a place to rekindle and enhance some of
> the interests I've mentioned.

I think it can do that.  Your interests are right in the area
that this group is focussed on.


> Coincidently I've wanted to visit New Zealand for some time.

Who knows?  We may see you here.  On the other hand i will be in
LA for 4 days next month... more coincidence heheheh


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 10:29:29 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Welcome Sarina Simpson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Welcome Sarina

I hope you find this group of interest. There are currently about
24 members in the group some who have been here a long time,
others 2 or so only a matter of days.  The group has been quiet
for a while.

You have shared your name and e-mail address and that you are
female, and have requested that this is enough intro for now.

I look forward to your participation.


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 13:58:10 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Psyber-Lers

I have an attitude of acceptance of silences in the this group.
Silence, after all is a form of communication, sometimes leaving
space for interpretation but sometimes, like the silence after a
slam of the door, communicates something final the longer it
continues.

There has been no slam of the door here.  I feel as close to some
people as ever and imagine others do too, I sense good will.
Even in this prolonged silence this "group" feels like a home on
the net, and not an empty house.

So what is it?

I am asking because I am curious. Have we talked ourselves out?
Is there not the critical mass to keep this group going?  Is the
purpose and description flawed in some way that is now more
evident?  Has the Net evolved, and we are now active in other
places?  Is it my "hosting style"?  Is "experiential" learning
too complex, compared to sharing of information, presentation of
research, sharing of resources?

Ignoring the possibly delicious grains of truth I come up with a
"no" to all of the above.  While there may be room for changes
and improvement, that itself is a viable topic for discussion.

The statement of purpose, has an enduring quality, as relevant
now as when we started:


|  The purpose of Psyber-L is to learn experientially about the
|  psyche in cyberspace. As all online discussion contributes to the
|  unfolding of the psyche a wide range of topics is suitable.
|  Participants are encouraged to make posts about the process and
|  how the psyche manifests and can be nurtured in cyberspace. The
|  comment and learning is not kept separate from the discussion, it
|  forms an integral part of it.


~~~

My request for us to reflect here is in line with this purpose.
This longer than usual silence may yield insight that is deeper
than usual.

In addition to that I am thinking of moving the archives to a
secure website with the Psybernet ISP and using a different
listserver, all of this is partly to cut some costs. None of this
is set in concrete however some rethink and perhaps revamp of
this group is in order.

I look forward to hearing from you.


Walter





______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 May 2000 22:55:35 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Janell F. Adair" <jfadair9@PHILLY.INFI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

     Walter and all:

      I too was wondering what was happening with the extended silence, but
my rl world life has been so busy that I haven't had time to answer or start
a discussion.

     One of the things that had me a little confused was Walter's recent
experimentation with the other on-line media ( I forget the name of it, so
please forgive me). I also was a little worn out by my recent participation
in the dreamevent, which I really enjoyed and would have liked to continue a
little longer.

     I personally believe that perhaps others are involved in other places
on the net, the way that the net has evolved, it's easy to understand some
of the diversity. I don't believe it has anything to do with your hosting or
the style of the group.

    Take care and perhaps some discussion will come forth at this time.

       Janell



----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
To: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: Psyber-L?


> Dear Psyber-Lers
>
> I have an attitude of acceptance of silences in the this group.
> Silence, after all is a form of communication, sometimes leaving
> space for interpretation but sometimes, like the silence after a
> slam of the door, communicates something final the longer it
> continues.
>
> There has been no slam of the door here.  I feel as close to some
> people as ever and imagine others do too, I sense good will.
> Even in this prolonged silence this "group" feels like a home on
> the net, and not an empty house.
>
> So what is it?
>
> I am asking because I am curious. Have we talked ourselves out?
> Is there not the critical mass to keep this group going?  Is the
> purpose and description flawed in some way that is now more
> evident?  Has the Net evolved, and we are now active in other
> places?  Is it my "hosting style"?  Is "experiential" learning
> too complex, compared to sharing of information, presentation of
> research, sharing of resources?
>
> Ignoring the possibly delicious grains of truth I come up with a
> "no" to all of the above.  While there may be room for changes
> and improvement, that itself is a viable topic for discussion.
>
> The statement of purpose, has an enduring quality, as relevant
> now as when we started:
>
>
> |  The purpose of Psyber-L is to learn experientially about the
> |  psyche in cyberspace. As all online discussion contributes to the
> |  unfolding of the psyche a wide range of topics is suitable.
> |  Participants are encouraged to make posts about the process and
> |  how the psyche manifests and can be nurtured in cyberspace. The
> |  comment and learning is not kept separate from the discussion, it
> |  forms an integral part of it.
>
>
> ~~~
>
> My request for us to reflect here is in line with this purpose.
> This longer than usual silence may yield insight that is deeper
> than usual.
>
> In addition to that I am thinking of moving the archives to a
> secure website with the Psybernet ISP and using a different
> listserver, all of this is partly to cut some costs. None of this
> is set in concrete however some rethink and perhaps revamp of
> this group is in order.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
>
> Walter
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________
> Walter Logeman
> walter@psybernet.co.nz
> http://www.psybernet.co.nz
> WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 01:42:42 EDT
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Greg Marshkan <Marshkan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter,

Glad to see the silence broken - even if it is to complain about the silence.
 I have been a member for a few weeks.  The only other conversation was to
welcome some other new members.  Is that what this group does, welcome new
members?

Greg

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 22:37:41 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <94.4f0cc3a.26620bd2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greg

> Glad to see the silence broken - even if it is to complain about the silence.

I hope it was not a complaint!  It is such a fine line to mention
the silence without sounding as if i am cajoling people to
post... if there is no reason to post, then so be it.

>  I have been a member for a few weeks.  The only other conversation was to
> welcome some other new members.  Is that what this group does, welcome new
> members?

Far from it!  I am in another place on the net where there is a
very strong culture of welcoming and so on.  It actually feels
quite nice to arrive and be welcomed by five or six people... I
think we should do it more fully here.

Welcomes aside :-) what would you like to explore here Greg?


Walter


______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 08:12:04 -0700
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         JB <judithb@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <006701bfc850$33f07a00$dabefe3f@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Walter and all,

I find I have made an assumption about the silence... Janell, you
mentioned the participation in the dream event...since I didn't
participate I have no way of knowing who in Psyber-L did, but I am
surmising from the conversations prior to signing up for the event
that the people choosing to do so were many of those who post
regularly here...I don't know when the dream event ended but this
last silence if my memory serves me began with the dream
event...there were little if any posts during the dream event I am
surmising the silence is continuing...didn't we experience something
like this after the last breakout group...

Walter, you did post to the group about the on-line media you were
exploring...I was totally lost with this and had no interest in
trying to figure it out so in that case my silence indicated lack of
interest in the topic...my fascination with computering ran out after
30 years and I have morphed into a version of my most dreaded
client...currently since installing my iMAC, after purging all of BG
off my system, I find I can't print from Netscape...as an indication
of the extent of my lack of motivation to learn anything about any of
the software, I am simply not printing...which actually may be a
blessing ;-) tho I am printing which for me is a breakthrough...after
30 years I am finally on output!

Judith



IMO

Judith wondering

>     Walter and all:
>
>      I too was wondering what was happening with the extended silence, but
>my rl world life has been so busy that I haven't had time to answer or start
>a discussion.
>
>     One of the things that had me a little confused was Walter's recent
>experimentation with the other on-line media ( I forget the name of it, so
>please forgive me). I also was a little worn out by my recent participation
>in the dreamevent, which I really enjoyed and would have liked to continue a
>little longer.
>
>     I personally believe that perhaps others are involved in other places
>on the net, the way that the net has evolved, it's easy to understand some
>of the diversity. I don't believe it has anything to do with your hosting or
>the style of the group.
>
>    Take care and perhaps some discussion will come forth at this time.
>
>       Janell
>

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 May 2000 00:38:46 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <v04210101b556e14ac70e@[207.54.160.147]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith, Janell

Good to see you both here.  Suddenly there is so much to respond
to... let me just say this for now in response to your note re
the dreamevent Judith:

> there were little if any posts during the dream event I am
> surmising the silence is continuing...

There were four from memory from Psyber-L in the last
dreamevent... plus me, so yes that could be a critical factor.
Certainly it slows me down when I am so focussed on something
like that.  I think that is a critical factor.  I am doing more
"hosting" in other groups and it seems that they work best when
there is that active attention to the flow of the posts.

Below are 2 quotes from an Online Learning article that point to
the role of the  moderator or host.

Walter


~~~

http://horizon.unc.edu/TS/reading/2000-05.asp

~

The author suggests, however, that the key to this balancing act
of human interactions is a responsive moderator. And the
moderator, Beaudin also notes, does not need to be the
instructor. He asserts that the role of the moderator and the
guidelines within which this figure will operate must be part of
the pre-course design and clearly understood by student
participants.

~

To foster open communication, White provides detailed advice and
cautions teachers that students need more than just ground rules
up front. They need personal responses to their questions quickly
(within 24 hours). Those responses should acknowledge that
students' questions and comments are important. Immediate
feedback from either the teacher or the other students prevents
students from filling in the communication void with negative
assumptions about why no one has yet responded. The explicit
advice White provides, however, rests upon a critical caveat: the
optimal interpersonal learning environment requires limited class
size and "hard work."



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 May 2000 08:09:34 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Walter and the 21 others who are part of this list (I noted that Janell has
two accounts here which leaves us with having only 23 members),

I just want to check in and let all know that I am here as well, quietly
here.  I have been busy with life as well.  I am in the process of changing
my position as principal of one K-12 school to another K-12 school, a change
that requires that I relocate.  So, I am busy selling my house, buying
another one and lots of other relateda activity.  As well, I have been
relatively busy at JUNG-L where it isn't so silent (for those who are new to
this place, I am listowner of a Jungian Psychology discussion group).  I
just viewed the membership  list for this discussion group and was very
interested to see who remained.

Hello to:
    Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
    Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
    Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
    Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
    Charles    Walter

I have not kept up my efforts at *editthispage* Walter as you have probably
noticed.  There just isn't enough time.

Silence?

> There has been no slam of the door here.  I feel as close to some
> people as ever and imagine others do too, I sense good will.
> Even in this prolonged silence this "group" feels like a home on
> the net, and not an empty house.

I agree, it doesn't feel empty.  One thing that I think needs to happen here
is to have a focus for the who group such as the dreamevent was.  Perhaps a
waterbird game that was based on something other than dreams.  Since I have
know  anumber of you here for years, I can hold that silence better than if
I was newer here.  I wonder what our purpose is for holding on to psyber-l
if it isn't to post and engage in active relationship?

> I am asking because I am curious. Have we talked ourselves out?
> Is there not the critical mass to keep this group going?

I doubt that we have talked ourselves out.  Perhaps there is a critical mass
issue here if there is a desire to have conversation at a general level.
Since many have been here for a looonnnngg time I am wondering if there is
off-list dialogue which has grown from long time association.  That would
certainly effect the dynamics.

>  Is the
> purpose and description flawed in some way that is now more
> evident?

Walter, I don't see the problem as being contained within the posted purpose
and description.  It is more likely a problem of advertising.  People now go
to the big services such as egroups or listbot to search for topics of
interest.  How would one go about advertising so that the world knows that
you are here, that PSYBER-L is here?

> My request for us to reflect here is in line with this purpose.
> This longer than usual silence may yield insight that is deeper
> than usual.

Perhaps we need to *state* for ourselves as well as for the group what it is
that is keeping us here, what are our intentions here, what are our hopes
for this place.  I could be that we have held on simply because leave-taking
is so hard to do.

returning your reflections,

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 May 2000 20:03:55 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <004601bfc8ae$5a78e3c0$4d5fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert,

> I just want to check in and let all know that I am here as well, quietly
> here.  I have been busy with life as well.  I am in the process of changing
> my position as principal of one K-12 school to another K-12 school, a change
> that requires that I relocate.  So, I am busy selling my house, buying
> another one and lots of other relateda activity.

That sounds major.  It might be only a small part of the many
changes but i guess that affects your role with the community
online access project?


> Hello to:
>     Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
>     Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
>     Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
>     Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
>     Charles    Walter

That's us! I wonder of those who is really here?  By that i mean
that they are not on NOMAIL or have other ways of being on the
list but not really getting the posts.  There is a group who
reads occasionally, participates by taking an interest,
occasionally posting -- they are here as far as I am concerned.

~~~

Weblog

> I have not kept up my efforts at *editthispage* Walter as you have probably
> noticed.  There just isn't enough time.

I can understand your reluctance Robert.  Judith mentioned that i
was doing something like this... i presume it is my weblog you
were referent to Judith.  (link on the bottom of my emails...
though not for long probably :)

It takes very little of my time.  I can post a link and a few
comments with little effort, easier than book marking on my own
machine!  However it is a personal experiment, exploration... and
I am learning from it.  I will report on it here some time.


~~~

Silence?

> I agree, it doesn't feel empty.

Just these few posts today and there is so much to reflect on!
Full and rich I think.


More in another post.


Walter



______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 May 2000 20:14:41 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Intentions
In-Reply-To:  <004601bfc8ae$5a78e3c0$4d5fa58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Robert, you wrote in:

  Re: [P] Psyber-L?
  Sun, 28 May 2000 08:09:34 -0600

> Perhaps we need to *state* for ourselves as well as for the group what it is
> that is keeping us here, what are our intentions here, what are our hopes
> for this place.  I could be that we have held on simply because leave-taking
> is so hard to do.

Makes me think of the "Intentions book" that we use here (and i
presume in other parts of the world) when we go into the wilds. I
think it would be great to hear intentions - or just to launch
into the... project, subject sharing, relating.  Both would be
good.

My intention is to bring my growing edge of awareness of the
psyche in cyberspace here as a personal story.  I think that is
what i have been doing so far too.

I also intend to reflect on and enhance the facility of this
group.  I see this as a reflexive group, one where it is always
ok to discuss what is happening here... what i have heard called
"meta thrash" in other groups... quite rightly because it can
distract from the overt topic.

I also intend to relate as best i can with others here.  No
relationships, no group... no *psyche*.

> I could be that we have held on simply because leave-taking
> is so hard to do.

Makes me think of the Joyce phrase:  Is life worth leaving?

Plenty have and we all will!  Right now I don't wanna go.


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html


=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 May 2000 20:21:03 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Other places on the net - how can we focus?
In-Reply-To:  <006701bfc850$33f07a00$dabefe3f@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Janell, you wrote in:

  Re: [P] Psyber-L?
  Sat, 27 May 2000 22:55:35 -0400


>  One of the things that had me a little confused was Walter's recent
> experimentation with the other on-line media ( I forget the name of it, so
> please forgive me). I also was a little worn out by my recent participation
> in the dreamevent, which I really enjoyed and would have liked to continue a
> little longer.

Sorry, I mentioned Judith in the other post as raising my media
explorations.  Weblog link below.

I am glad you enjoyed the dreamevent Janell. Such a flood of
posts.  So much to learn about how to do those things, so little
time.

I know the group is confidential but the Method is not... do you
have comments on that Janell?


Walter

______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

____________________________________________________________
Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 May 2000 17:56:26 -0600
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Walter,

With regards to my news of a move of jobs and communities you said:

> That sounds major.  It might be only a small part of the many
> changes but i guess that affects your role with the community
> online access project?

Yes it does.  I will stay in touch with the group but I think that there is
little experience or energy for the remaining committee to make it go much
further.  I do intend on providing a similar project for my new community.
I will likely have more success because the community is somewhat larger and
has a better technology presence within the homes.

I also said hello to all on our database and you wondered:

> That's us! I wonder of those who is really here?  By that i mean
> that they are not on NOMAIL or have other ways of being on the
> list but not really getting the posts.  There is a group who
> reads occasionally, participates by taking an interest,
> occasionally posting -- they are here as far as I am concerned.

I wondered about that myself.  I guess that the answer to this would come
with the sending of emails directly to each of these addresses and asking
them directly.  I doubt that such a personal email that you would get
non-response.  Perhaps a "personal" email will result in re-investment here
at PSYBER-L.

more later,

Robert

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 May 2000 12:09:45 +1200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Organization: psybernet
Subject:      Personal Emails - "backchannel"
In-Reply-To:  <005701bfc9c9$8168c600$9973a58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Robert

> I wondered about that myself.  I guess that the answer to this would come
> with the sending of emails directly to each of these addresses and asking
> them directly.  I doubt that such a personal email that you would get
> non-response.  Perhaps a "personal" email will result in re-investment here
> at PSYBER-L.

I have begun this process!  It is partly as a result of the group
life here... and also because I am doing "hosting" with
GroupSense.  Working at this professionally is interesting
because we are constantly developing the "model" of what we do so
that we can teach it to new staff (when we get to that point...
part of getting there is to be able to teach them some things. I
think it is teachable... much in the way that art is :)

Using "backchannel" has become more familiar to me. I have
resisted it in the past.  The reason for that was that I felt my
comments could best go to the group, and thus be transparent to
all.  Also there would not be more than needed in the darkness
behind the group for people to project into.

They were reasons, but not good ones! It led to the "hub"
phenomena, where there were often many posts in the group with me
as a central correspondent.  Life outside the group (or not) will
always be mysterious.  Perhaps this group is quiet, but
individuals are active, who knows?

The word "backchannel"... is it useful?  "Personal Emails" and
"Private emails" is not quite accurate either.  I think I like
the term "personal email" as you have used it Robert ... I'd be
interested in what others think.


Walter
______________
Walter Logeman
walter@psybernet.co.nz
http://www.psybernet.co.nz
WebLog: http://psybernet.editthispage.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 May 2000 09:07:25 +0200
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bent_B=F8gedal_Christoffersen?=
              <bbc@MAIL.DANBBS.DK>
Organization: Metusalem Art & music
Subject:      Sv:      Re: [P] Psyber-L?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----=20
Fra: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Til: <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sendt: 29. maj 2000 10:03
Emne: Re: [P] Psyber-L?


>=20
> > Hello to:
> >     Bent         Susan       Judith        Janell     Sheryl
> >     Stephen    Dan         Anita         Nancy    Myles
> >     Simon      Carroll      Sarina      Art         Wendell
> >     Barrett     Rob          Wayne     Greg       Lorraine
> >     Charles    Walter
>=20
 Yes. i`m still on the list ( Bent ),and its amazing to se for the first =
time
all members at once and that we are 5 lines.=20
 I have been writing very little over the years I have too much to do
in my daily life working with people in groups ,playing music
in a group and all ,and also making webpages in for my=20
local community and managing debat and guestbooks
 on 3 websites.

( If anybody has interest here are the sites ( only a little English )
in Danish wich only Danes understand anyway )
http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb
http://www.danbbs.dk/~bbcweb/Turesminde/Indhold.html
http://www.galgebakken.dk
http://www.holsbjerg.dk  (  co working )

 But leaving the group no. I feel that it is a very important
part of my computerlife to open op and see that there is
post from the group and its still living.
 Allthough there has been silence before ,until sombody
dropped a stone in the lake ,I had a thought ,that the
web has developed in other directions and has grown
so much and lost some of the frontier content as all
the .com changed it and that people on the list maybe
had too much of it.=20
 In contrast to only a few yers ago I recieve only 20%
E-mails as before from others than this group.

And like janell said:

>One of the things that had me a little confused was Walter's recent
>experimentation with the other on-line media ( I forget the name of it, =
so
>please forgive me).=20

And Judith

>Walter, you did post to the group about the on-line media you were
>exploring...I was totally lost with this and had no interest in
>trying to figure it out so in that case my silence indicated lack of
>interest in the topic...my fascination with computering ran out after
>30 years and I have morphed into a version of my most dreaded
>client...currently since installing my iMAC, after purging all of BG
>off my system, I find I can't print from Netscape...as an indication
>of the extent of my lack of motivation to learn anything about any of
>the software, I am simply not printing...which actually may be a
>blessing ;-) tho I am printing which for me is a breakthrough...after
>30 years I am finally on output!

Its takes time every time something new is coming up. And noboby
can follow the many new trends and new programs that are coming
up without living as a professional computer nerd.
So if You change the list into something new that takes too much
time to learn I have to think about leaving the list.
 But that will really make me sad doing so.
And what happend when we tried the chat thing ? I suppose that
It is gone and forgotten ?

But maby its just becauce I`m gettin too old .=20

Bent

 ____________________________________________________________
> Read, write in Psyber-L, manage your options, or unsubscribe
> here:      http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/psyber-l.html
>=20
>=20
>=20

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 May 2000 03:09:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: vees.net - A reference site of stuff that's important to Rob
              Carlson
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <r8t0js4510tplgre95j6sino1rg6b4jm7g@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 28 May 2000, Walter Logeman wrote:

> I have an attitude of acceptance of silences in the this group.
> Silence, after all is a form of communication, sometimes leaving
> space for interpretation but sometimes, like the silence after a
> slam of the door, communicates something final the longer it
> continues.
>
> There has been no slam of the door here.  I feel as close to some
> people as ever and imagine others do too, I sense good will.
> Even in this prolonged silence this "group" feels like a home on
> the net, and not an empty house.
>
> So what is it?

Walter,

Since the list is archived in perpetuity, I always have the desire to make
my posts as worthwhile as possible.  Unfortunately the activation energy
and time required to put together one of these wonderful posts is very
high and doesn't often happen.  My best posts wind up coming out at around
three in the morning when I haven't had quite enough sleep and my mind can
spin out ideas freely without my little mental censor pointing out how
it's not good enough to share with everyone yet.

That accounts for my silence, anyway.  My meme can't be perfect so it
winds up not being at all.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 May 2000 03:13:21 -0400
Reply-To:     Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Exploring the Psyche in Cyberspace <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@UMBC.EDU>
Organization: vees.net - A reference site of stuff that's important to Rob
              Carlson
Subject:      Re: Psyber-L?
In-Reply-To:  <005701bfc9c9$8168c600$9973a58e@cyberie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 29 May 2000, Robert G. Longpre wrote:

> I wondered about that myself.  I guess that the answer to this would come
> with the sending of emails directly to each of these addresses and asking
> them directly.  I doubt that such a personal email that you would get
> non-response.  Perhaps a "personal" email will result in re-investment here
> at PSYBER-L.

A few days ago, such a personal e-mail would have garnered a one line
response;

  "I don't have time to play right now, but thanks for thinking about me."

But this morning I start posting on my own.  The difference between today
and Friday is three less stressors, but somehow it gives me the
opportunity to spend a little more time on the e-mail box and have my
attention caught by this list.

Rob

--
Rob Carlson, KC2AEI | rob@vees.net | http://vees.net/

____________________________________________________________
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