From LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM Sun May 27 09:27:49 2001
Return-Path: <>
Delivered-To: walterl1@w.pop.ihug.co.nz
Received: (qmail 19688 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 21:38:52 -0000
Received: from mx2-1.ihug.co.nz (HELO mx2.ihug.co.nz) (203.29.168.197)
  by kate.ihug.co.nz with SMTP; 26 May 2001 21:38:52 -0000
Received: from home.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.9] 
	by mx2.ihug.co.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
	id 153lho-00008i-00; Sun, 27 May 2001 09:34:40 +1200
Received: from home (home.ease.lsoft.com) by home.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <14.FDE3FC63@home.ease.lsoft.com>; Sat, 26 May 2001 17:27:50 -0400
Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 17:27:49 -0400
From: "L-Soft list server at HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (1.8d)"              <LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Subject: File: "PSYBER-L LOG9801"
To: Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Message-Id: <E153lho-00008i-00@mx2.ihug.co.nz>
X-Rcpt-To: walter@psybernet.co.nz

=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:55:52 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Charles Cameron <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      a personal New Year's greeting
Comments: To: magister-l@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Comments: cc: Wyddfa@aol.com, thoreau@flash.net, haeslo@concentric.com,
          wmtmcc@aol.com, CMORGAN@Gems.VCU.EDU, OldenburgD@washpost.com,
          ghsingle@gamut.neiu.edu, bucrach@earthlink.net, JconElaw@aol.com,
          kenneth cowan <coinneach@earthlink.net>,
          MMASSEY@DELPHI.COM, michael.bradburn-ruster@reed.edu,
          nrml1@cus.cam.ac.uk, rlandes@tiac.net, rlandes@bu.edu, cms@mille.org,
          soleary@almaak.usc.edu, tabit@mind.net, 101666.3103@compuserve.com,
          fturner@idt.net, mike@online-alchemy.com, nf@theinspiracy.com,
          filmgypsy@earthlink.net, Antiquare@aol.com,
          proprietor@paperbacks.com, unus.mundus@btinternet.com,
          tabit@mind.net, itrent@earthlink.net, wlyon@cctr.umkc.edu,
          pamichae@email.unc.edu, ellenalan@igc.org, rlrogers@wolfenet.com,
          mary@pema.demon.co.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Friends:

It is not every day that a monk gets a knighthood, but yesterday in the
British New Years Honours List it was announced that the Anglican monk Fr.
Trevor Huddleston CR had been awarded the Knight Companionship of the Order
of Saints Michael and George.

For me personally, this is a very special occasion -- for Father Trevor was
my legal guardian (roughly speaking, an "adopted father" to me) from
shortly after the death of my father when I was nine, to the attainment of
my majority at 21 in the English system.

I'd like to tell you a little about Father Trevor, both to praise one of
the truly exemplary though little-remembered figures of our time, and as my
own way of welcoming the New Year in the company of my friends.

*

Trevor Huddleston was educated at Christ Church, Oxford, and was for most
of his life a priest and monk in the Anglican Community of the
Resurrection, popularly known as the Mirfield Fathers.  He was sent to
South Africa by his community while still a young man, and worked in
Sophiatown, just outside Johannesberg, as a priest and teacher.

While in South Africa, Trevor Huddleston repeatedly and quite literally put
his life on the line in defence of the very simple proposition that the
color of a person's skin was immaterial in view of the love that was
possible between any two people.  I do not think he in fact *saw* more than
one person at a time, and his responses to situations were geared directly
to the service of that love.

I would like to tell you two stories about this astonishing man:

One young black kid in South Africa aged about 8 or 9 was sitting with his
mother on the "stoop" outside his house in a South African shanty-town,
when a white priest walked by and doffed his hat to the boy's mother.  The
boy could hardly grasp how this had happened -- his mother was a black
woman, as one might say, "of no special acount".  But the priest in
question was Trevor Huddleston, and it was a natural courtesy for him to
lift his hat in greeting a lady...  The young boy never quite recovered
from this encounter.  We know him now as the Nobel Peace laureate,
Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Another young black kid, Hugh, aged 12 or 13, fell ill and was taken to
hospital, where Trevor Huddleston visited him.  Trevor asked him what he
would like more than anything in this world, what would so thrill and
please him that he would have the greatest possible motive for getting
better, getting out of the hospital and back to school.  Hugh said, "a
trumpet, Father", so Trevor got hold of a trumpet which he then presented
to the boy: now known the world over as the great jazz trumpeter, Hugh
Masekela.

These are two simple stories of how Fr Trevor simply and straightforwardly
loved whomever was before him, regardless of the enormous pressure at the
time to discriminate between "real" and "insignificant" people -- a love
which made an indelible mark on those whose lives it touched.

Trevor Huddleston was a founding member of the African National Congress,
the author of the first non-fiction work (*Naught for Your Comfort*) to
critique his beloved South Africa's apartheid policy, the only white person
honored with the Zulu nation's Isitwalandwe wreath, reviled publically for
meddling in politics by an Archbishop of Canterbury who later declared he
had been in error and that Fr Trevor was about as close to a saint as one
could find, President of the Anti-Apartheid movement for many years,
eventually "translated" to an Archbishopric himself -- and a man I believe
should himself have received the Nobel Prize for Peace many years ago,
though his work was too controversial at the time, and had faded in public
memory by the time his long efforts were finally rewarded with the ending
of Apartheid and the birth of the new South Africa.

His knighthood at the age of 84 comes as a timely recognition of an
extraordinary life of service.

*

I invite you to drink with me a toast this day to The Most Reverend
Achbishop Sir Trevor Huddleston CR KCMG -- a human being in the best sense
of the word, and for many years my legal guardian, model and inspiration.

With best wishes for the coming year, so auspiciously begun...


--
Charles
Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
*
hipbone games: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/
playable variants on Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 06:34:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Jim Calder <jfcalder@EASYNET.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: a personal New Year's greeting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Charles-

Thanks for sharing the wonderful story of your mentor - a man who has truly
lived the advice "Think globally, act locally."  Best wishes for the new year.

...Jim

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:29:37 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Psyberian New Year
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello to all my cyber-friends and colleagues

We returned home last night to a change in weather.  The snow is finally
here and the temperatures this morning are -37C (that's -34F) under
sunny skies and an absence of wind (thankfully ... wind chill).

I'm glad to be home though I do enjoy being with my children.  I missed
the quietness, the time to myself, and I missed being able to engage
with the people and places of cyberspace that have come to mean a lot to
me.

Robert

PS  Charles, I appreciated your last post.  I wish that I had had the
opportunity to be mentored by a similar giant among men.  Happy New
Year's  :)

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:45:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year
In-Reply-To:  <34AE7581.4EC6@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Robert G. Longpre wrote:

> We returned home last night to a change in weather.  The snow is finally
> here and the temperatures this morning are -37C (that's -34F) under
> sunny skies and an absence of wind (thankfully ... wind chill).

Answer my one question; if you spit at that temperature, does it freeze
before it hits the ground?  I've never been through worse than 0F I think,
here in NJ.  It just don't get too cold here.  Not enough to be
interesting, anyhow.

Rob

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:20:03 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob from NJ,

     You ask a very interesting question that I unfortunately have not
been able to find an answer.  Perhaps it's the method of research that
is at fault.

> Answer my one question; if you spit at that temperature, does it
> freeze before it hits the ground?

Though I have had occasion to "spit" in very cold weather, the
incidences are rare.  Why?  I hesitate to undo the scarf or lift the
face mask to do this "spitting".  As well, it is difficult to note just
"when" the freezing occurs.  Does the contact with the frozen ground
hasten the freezing, or is the spit frozen "before" the spit actually
lands.  One has to test the consistency of the spit "in the air" and at
the moment of impact.  This takes time and I'm not that keen on spending
"extra" time outside at these temperatures in the name of science.

Now, to study the stars or to reflect on the awesome grandeur of the
northen lights at temperatures even colder is definitely worth the
effort of dressing well.  And of course, there is the satisfaction of a
good walk in the cold listening to the crunch of snow underfoot, a
stroll that tells of the walker's declaration of rebellion against the
staid wisdom of conservative thought.  The "heights" are always cold and
sparsely populated.

Robert du Canada

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:20:40 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Bonnie :  Jung-Book-Talks ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bonnie,

     In reply to your response to my post, yes:

> if you missed one in the series is it archived anyplace?  I missed
> the one with James Hollis and I love James Hollis.  Wondering if
> there's anyway I could access the results of that talk.

     On the homepage at:

  http://www.cgjung.com/jbt.html.

there is a section for the proceedings of past "talks".  I enjoyed the
talk with Hollis as it was one in which I was fairly active as a poster.
I have also had the pleasure of reading a number of his books including
SWAMPLANDS OF THE SOUL which was the featured book of that talk.

Hope to meet you there,

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:03:04 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Online group work
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all,

I'm organizing a group for men to discus issues of midlife or other
issues that are "masculine" in theme for males.  The group will be
meeting online for real-time interaction at a website that I have rented
for this purpose.

The setting is within a "visual" room in which we will be able to see
each other via the use of an "avatar" for which there is choice provided
with entry into the room.  The dialogue is presented in "bubbles" such
as one finds in comic strips.  The characters (avatars) that represent
each person are able to move around the room and turn to face the person
with whom one wants to address.

The group will be limited to about six men (if more want to participate,
I will set up a second meeting time and room).  This group is being
designed because of an expressed need for such a group by an online
colleague of mine.  I am suggesting that the group begins during the
week of January 18-24.  The best times for myself would be between 6pm
and 11pm Central Standard Time on either Tuesday or Wednesday evenings.

I am willing to consider other types of groups that would benefit from
real-time interaction, groups that are not limited to gender.  I think
that this could be an excellent test of this medium's use for
therapeutic purposes.

I invite your responses to this idea.

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:16:05 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Tim <tigu@GTE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Online group work
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

        Robert,

        I am anxious to participate in the Mens Group online meeting.  I
have envisioned something like this for some time but haven't been able to
make the idea crystalize.  The times you are considering are good for me
also.  I hope you will consider me when it comes time to "sign up".  Thanks..


                                Tim




At 04:03 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>To all,
>
>I'm organizing a group for men to discus issues of midlife or other
>issues that are "masculine" in theme for males.  The group will be
>meeting online for real-time interaction at a website that I have rented
>for this purpose.
>
>The setting is within a "visual" room in which we will be able to see
>each other via the use of an "avatar" for which there is choice provided
>with entry into the room.  The dialogue is presented in "bubbles" such
>as one finds in comic strips.  The characters (avatars) that represent
>each person are able to move around the room and turn to face the person
>with whom one wants to address.
>
>The group will be limited to about six men (if more want to participate,
>I will set up a second meeting time and room).  This group is being
>designed because of an expressed need for such a group by an online
>colleague of mine.  I am suggesting that the group begins during the
>week of January 18-24.  The best times for myself would be between 6pm
>and 11pm Central Standard Time on either Tuesday or Wednesday evenings.
>
>I am willing to consider other types of groups that would benefit from
>real-time interaction, groups that are not limited to gender.  I think
>that this could be an excellent test of this medium's use for
>therapeutic purposes.
>
>I invite your responses to this idea.
>
>Robert
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
>LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:29:08 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Charles Cameron <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Online group work
In-Reply-To:  <34AEB598.670@sk.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Robert, all --

> The setting is within a "visual" room in which we will be able to
> see each other via the use of an "avatar" for which there is choice
> provided with entry into the room.  The dialogue is presented in
> "bubbles" such as one finds in comic strips.  The characters
> (avatars) that represent each person are able to move around the
> room and turn to face the person with whom one wants to
> address.

Fascinating setup, Robert.  I don't think I'd be an appropriate member for
your first group, but the environment you describe interests me a great
deal.  Sounds a little like Microsoft Chat:

     http://www.asia.microsoft.com/ie/chat/?/ie/chat/main.htm

I get the impression that what you're speaking of is "more
three-dimensional" than MS Chat, however -- is that the software you'll be
using, or do you have some other source?  So many questions...  How much
does it cost to set up a session like this, do people get to design their
own avatars, can they add graphics to the environment, etc?

I see intriguing possibilities here for Psybertnet, HipBone Games, etc...

Wishing your group every success,


--
Charles
Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
*
hipbone games: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/
playable variants on Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:14:55 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Charles ...... Avatars and rooms
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Charles

     Thanks for your interest in the the project.  I'm going to have to
try out the microsoft chat link that you posted to see what the
similarities are.

> I get the impression that what you're speaking of is "more
> three-dimensional" than MS Chat, however -- is that the software
> you'll be using, or do you have some other source?

     There is a website that one travels to without the need for
additional software.  It does have a three dimensional quality of sorts,
but is not as good a product as another "avatar" website that I have
tried out in the past several months (too many technical problems with
the software that needs to be downloaded ... it has an oral/aural aspect
... talking heads that can be commanded to smile, frown, etc. ... it was
called OnLine Traveller).  The site I am going to use has shown
relatively good stability for interactivity (some problems, but that is
to be expected with any developing technology).

> How much does it cost to set up a session like this,

There are options:
        monthly .......... $2.95
        3 months .........  8.00
        6 months ......... 15.00
        year ............. 26.00

> do people get to design their own avatars, can they add graphics to
> the environment, etc?

Not as far as I know (both questions).  There exists a predesigned set
of avatars that one chooses from upon entering the room.  I think it
might be possible to design other avatars and "add" them to the
repetoire with the software owners approval.

> I see intriguing possibilities here for Psybernet, HipBone Games,

And I see these as well ... quantum leaps of imagination ...

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:23:19 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         meeseo Paik <ingul@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      "sending mail to the list"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thank you ...
I am very happy to receive my subscription.
I want to learn many things from Psybernet.

   Bye-bye
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:22:02 +0000
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Janell F. Adair" <jfadair9@PHILLY.INFI.NET>
Subject:      Anyone There???????
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi All:


   Is the list dead????  Did it die while I was away for a couple of
days???? I've seen no postings since 1/7/98.


  Janell

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:57:56 GMT
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year
In-Reply-To:  <34AEAB83.7FC5@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Happy New year!

Kate & I have just arrived back from a while away in the hills and
beaches of the north of the South Island of NZ.  It was pleasant to
come back to Psyber-L and read the new year stories.  Charles, good to
hear about your "adopted father"!  I have a sense a lot has rubbed off
onto you from Fr. Trevor Huddleston and will gladly join in your toast
to: "The Most Reverend Archbishop Sir Trevor Huddleston CR KCMG -- a
human being in the best sense."

While we are in the heat most of you in Psyber-l are again in the
cold, but Robert yours must win the prize for extreme weather.

Welcome to those who have recently joined, and welcome back Anita, how
was your time in Greece!

As I have returned to the computer there have been too many
interesting things!  Robert, your Avatar project sounds good, count me
in if there is room.  I have joined the Jung-Book-Talks--with  David
J. Tacey, author of Remaking Men: Jung, Spirituality and Social
Change, and have already sent a post. Thanks Robert for the info.  I
have been looking at the inspiring Glass Bead Game . . . as a result
of reading in the Magister-L list that Charles had made a move:

:: Just a brief announcement that my move, "Synchronicity", in
:: Robert Carrillo Cohen's CoreWave GBG is now up on the web at:

     http://www.corewave.com/core/rec/36.htmlx

This is more or less how i anticipated our DreamEvent might look once
written up for the web, and I am keen to get on to that write up,
though it will be more modest.  To do more in that line of work with a
psybernet theme is on my list for 98.  The CoreWave according to its
originator is an online collaborative art work, and i agree -- it is
the sort of art that is 100% net native, and perhaps to the net what
novels were to the printing press.

I have some email in response to my thesis, a psychodrama paper, and
have 2 weeks to complete it -- so I will be busy, especially as i
return to a full case load on the 19th of Jan.

Soon I will be meeting with some local Christchurch people in a
Psybernet interest group, this is a new development, and i hope the
face to face contact will assist in making a better Psybernet.

In Psyber-L I look forward to a continuation of discussion on the
list-owner role, to continuing the soul searching I am doing with
Robert (anyone can join).  I hope that we can go deep into the inner
rumblings of Psyber-L and not shy from the gender debates and other
difficult areas ~ personally difficult ~ I mean.  I have a belief that
the connections that have been made and the learning we have done over
the years will mean we can go further, here and in associated lists
and projects.  The Human Science discussion and the Mind / Brain
aspect of it too, is still on my mind, more to work with there.

On the latter I am again reminded of the CoreWave game (see above)
which is on the theme of the "inner and the outer" and related to our
discussion in some ways.  I am brewing up a move for the game if I can
get it done before the 17th (when it closes):  Vico, the Renaissance
philosopher as he was one of the first to make the distinction with
respect to inner and outer knowledge.

One more thing I would like to see in Psyber-L is a continuation of
the diverse and spontaneous gems!  I recall wonderful posts, we should
make a list! which have delighted us and made Psyber-L a rich place to
be.  Having stated my interests in what might emerge here in 1998, I'd
be interested in hearing what other people might intend for the list.


A good 1998, for us all, for Psyber-L and Psybernet.


Walter


__________________________________________________________
Walter Logeman walter@psybernet.co.nz  www.psybernet.co.nz

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:44:03 EST
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         RCWilk <RCWilk@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year -Dreams
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Walter,

  Glad to hear the dream projects is still moving along.  If there is anything
I can do to help, drop me a line.

     Best to you and everyone on psyber-l  in 98

   - Richard
  rcwilk@dreamgate.com

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:37:18 +0200
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Anita Konkka <anitak@MEGABAUD.FI>
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Walter,  Charles and all,

At 03:57 1998-01-12 GMT,  Walter wrote:
>welcome back Anita, how was your time in Greece!

It was superb, so  good to be  alone for a while  and disconnected with the
telephone, the newspapers,  the TV and  the Net. My life  in Finland at last
autumn was too hectic, I felt terrible lost  when I didn=92t dream - or at
least didn=92t recall dreams. But  in Greece I  could connect  again with =
 the
inner life of mine - I saw  hugely dreams  and  began to write a  new novel.
The dreams are  my source of inspiration,  I cannot write without  them. =94
Life and dream are leaves of one and the same book=94, as  Schopenhauer put
it.  I think that the dreams  are windows  to  the  subconscious.  A Greek
poet  Cavafy wrote in his poem Windows:
...
It will be a great  relief when a window opens.
 But  the windows aren=92t there to be found-
 or at least I can=92t find them. And perhaps
 it=92s better if I don=92t  find them. Perhaps the light will prove another
tyranny.
 Who knows  what new things it will expose?=20

To me  it was, indeed , a great relief, when I  began to saw again dreams.
Greece is my  dream country. I was there  for the first time as a young
girl, and now for  the second time.  I love  it most  of  all the
Mediterranean  countries. I have spent  winters in Italy and Spain,  but
the  light in those countries is not like in Greece.  There  the light  is
so bright, such  that it absorbs the ego, the persona,  the mask,  and you
can connect your core-self.  But the light can also be  a tyranny, as
Cavafis  says.  It is no wonder, that Oedipus myth  came  into  existence
there. No  wonder, when Freud walked round the base of the Acropolis hill
and saw Parthenon, he was as if on the verge of a supernatural experience.
He suggested that it was as if somebody, walking by the side of Loch Ness,
had suddenly caught sight of the famous monster. His feeling of unreality
was so strong. It was like d=E9j=E1-vu - I have seen  or experienced this=
 before!

Charles,
At 10:57 AM 11/21/1997 GMT, you wrote:
> From a psychological point of view, email is experienced as *deferred
> synchrony*, even though the technical name for that which is not
> synchronous is "asynchronous".
> I think that's why we sometimes wait for a response on a list with such
> anticipation and fear: because the response is late, not because we are
> waiting for the response.  It is already late, the moment we have "sent"
> and check and have not yet "received".
(snip)
> And so I offer this post, these thoughts, specifically to those --
Julienne, Walter, Anita,      >  maybe others. who may have been waiting,
after a
> post of theirs, for a response from me.  Waiting, and becoming discouraged
> perhaps, as if they had spoken to a person apparently hearing them, who
> then utterly failed to reply...

My  humble comment:  When you  do not response, I think that my post  was so
stupid. But  when I do  not response I  *know*, that  I  have no  time to
translate my thoughts into English, because I  have my hands full of work.
It is  especially difficult to  response  when I=92m writing a novel.   Just
now I=92m *only*  writing a  radio play  and  lectures for university=
 students
on the topic: Dreams in literature.=20

Cheers to all

Anita

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:47:07 EST
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         RCWilk <RCWilk@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Dreams of Greece
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Anita,

   Your writing brought back a flood of memories of my own trip to Greece. I
won't turn this into a home movie, but wanted to sink for a moment into
related images from your text..

   The Dancing Texts of Dreams

    Greece was special to me before I went. I was slow as a child to learn to
read. In America they make us read really stupid Dick&Jane stories and it was
torture to me, and I never put a second into it where I wasn't forced. But
then I found (grade school versions) of Greek Mythology and was drawn to learn
to read.  I think the erotic-fantastic features attracted and held my
attention.

    Later, dreams would become important and as an adult, jung and mythology
began to figure into my psyche again.
   Psyche - a Greek word, meaning butterfly. In Greece they are the color of
orange poppies, while the real poppies there are red.

     When I was traveling in Greece in 92, the dream temples of Apollo and the
Asklepions were a focus, but  I became fascinated by the juxtaposition of the
amphitheatres next to the dream healing sancturies and apollonian temples. A
friend lent me a copy of "The Birth of Tragedy" and I became obsessed with
uncovering more of the dionysian side of dreamwork.

   Its usually seen as Apollo's trade, but mythically, he learned dreamwork
from Pan after stealing Delphi from an earlier culture.  Currently, historical
anthopologist feel that the site for Delphi is a newer one, and the original
site was the Corycian Cave - up the hill on parnassos above another large
valley.  Its interesting that the cave as the original site of the oracle is
also connected with Pan and various Bacchants and Maianads, part of Dionysios'
crew.
         Here, there were dances by groups of people at night and presumbably
dream sharing with the oracle.  By the time the oracle was moved down to the
current Delphi site (also quite beautiful, but quite different) dreaming had
been moved to the steps of the temple. One had the right dream, then won the
right to ask a question.

    It became (intuitively) apparent to me that the first dramas were, or
included, dreams. Probably dreams that were acted out for psycho-social
catharsis or cathexis in dance and stories. Mythology was, after all,
originally danced, not told just verbally.  In the Asklepion dream healing
temples, one had to wait for an particular dream before being healing. The key
was the dance of the Asklepios' crew, his snake, his dog, his daughter and
others. They usually had to touch the sick Greek, now presumbably sick from
too much culture and civilization. The animal connection, the dreamer touching
the dance of the Asklepian figures, immediately transferred the healing to the
patient. There wasn't a need for post interpretation, the sick dreamer was
drawn back into the realm of the dance, and that was the cure.
   Or so I wildly speculate. :)
Pictures up with story at
www.dreamgate.com/dream/oracle/

Anyway, I thought this might interest you in your journey into dreams and
literature - which after all, is a kind of dramatization of dreams.  I now see
all levels of dream work having a dramatic aspect. Recalling dreams is a
dance, recording, re-telling, re-writing, being inspired to write, paint, and
otherwise activate and actualize are all part of this drama that the Greeks
experimented and expressed for me so well.

   Also on dreams and literature:  SUNY Press has a dream book collection,
basically inspired by the Association for the Study of Dreams. One of the
books edited by Carol S. Rupprecht is on _the Dream and the Text: Essays on
Literature and Language_.  1993.

    Finally,   I have a few collected bibliographies of dreams and literature
at the dream bib site:
  www.dreamgate.com/dream/bibs/

   Look especially in the RCW bib collection.



      Best of luck on your adventures !

   = Richard

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:34:52 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Jen A. Gregg" <jeng@SCS.UNR.EDU>
Subject:      Practice Guideline Coalition
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

PLEASE POST

Input Requested for Clinical Guidelines Effort
The following message asks for your input to an important project. The
Practice Guideline Coalition is a multi-disciplinary, multi-organizational
partnership that is dedicated to better behavioral health care through the
dissemination of clinical practice guidelines that are brief, based on a
broad consensus about the best available evidence, readily understandable
by practitioners, focused on core clinical processes and measurable
outcomes, nationally disseminated, multi-disciplinary, and available in
the public domain. Practice guidelines are coming, whether we are
comfortable with that idea or not; the PGC effort is designed to bring
everyone to the table to try to develop a consensus about the core
material they should contain. Representatives from about 45 professional
and scientific associations, behavioral health care provider groups,
consumer groups, managed care associations, and government agencies have
participated so far in the coalition building process (a partial list is
given below). By the summer of 1998 PGC will develop two demonstration
guidelines in the areas of panic disorder and the management of chronic
pain. If the projects are successful, the PGC will be organized as a
formal membership organization, and a more extensive program of guideline
development will commence. All groups with missions relevant to behavioral
health care are welcome to participate.
        The purpose of this message is to ask for your help in identifying
groups that should be involved and to ask that they provide input to the
demonstration projects (e.g., supply articles or clinical evidence,
recommend panel members) and participate in the coalition building
process. The PGC website is located at www.unr.edu/psych/pgc and details
about the history of the coalition, and the kinds of evidence that are
being requested can be found there. If you can forward this message to
relevant officers or staff of significant groups, they can then access the
website. If you would prefer to have the PGC staff contact a group that
you think might be interested, send a short email note about who should be
contacted to Jennifer Gregg at jeng@scs.unr.edu or mail a note to the
Practice Guidelines Coalition, Department of Psychology/296, University of
Nevada, Reno, NV 89557. Time is of the essence, since input on the two
panels is due shortly after the holidays and evidentiary input is due by
the end of February.

The following are the groups that have been involved up to this point in
formal meetings regarding the coalition. Please note that no one has been
asked yet to endorse the process and no one will be asked until concrete
products are produced; thus these group should be viewed as interested and
involved parties, not necessarily supporters. The list of additional
groups that have been suggested by others and have been sent materials or
have indicated interest can be found at the website.

Academy of Psychological Clinical Science
Agency for Health Care Policy Research
American College of Mental Health Administration
American Academy for Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
American Association of Applied and Preventive Psychology
American Managed Behavioral Health Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Psychological Society
American Society of Addiction Medicine
Association for Advancement of Behavior Therapy
Association for Ambulatory Behavioral Health
Association for Behavior Analysis
Association of Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Nurses
Center for Mental Health Services
CHAMPUS
Consortium for Clinical Excellence
Council of Behavioral Group Practices
Department of Defense
National Council on Quality Assurance
Division 12 (Clinical) of the American Psychological Association
Division 17 (Counseling) of the American Psychological Association
Division 33 (MRDD) of the American Psychological Association
Expert Consensus Consortium
Gerontological Society of America
Institute for Behavioral Health Care
International Society of Psychiatric Consulting Liaison Nurses
Mental Health Programs
NAMI
National Association of Psychiatric Health Care Systems
National Association of Social Workers
National Council of Community Behavioral Health Care
National Institute on Drug Abuse
OBSSR Committee on Use of Behavioral Procedures
Office of Behavioral and Social Sciences Research, National Institutes of
Health
Park Nicollet Guideline Project
Society for a Science of Clinical Psychology
Society for Behavioral Medicine
Society for Education and Research in Psychiatric Nursing
Society for Social Work and Research
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
The Health Maintenance Organization Group
Veteran's Administration

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:02:34 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Charles Cameron <hipbone@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      departure imminent
Comments: To: alexandria@world.std.com
Comments: cc: ARCANA@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU, coinherence@chelmsford.com,
          ecchst-l@neiu.edu, HESSE-L@UCSBVM.UCSB.EDU, 2000ad-l@usc.edu,
          gbg-list@ifin.pair.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Friends and List-owners:

As of sometime Sat Jan 17, I shall very likely no longer be able to receive
or send mail from my own computer, for a period of maybe 6 or 8 weeks.  My
wife Anne, myself and our child Emlyn are moving rather suddenly to
England, and I imagine it will be some time before we find a place to live,
get our computer up and running, find a British ISP and so on.  All this
comes about at the confluence of a variety of factors -- family matters, a
somewhat more favorable financial situation if we move quickly, ongoing
talks with the likely "publisher" of some HipBone Games software, a friend
in Europe who would like to work with me re games in education -- but it
also means I have far less time than I would have liked to warn my friends
and tidy up the loose ends of one life before proceeding to the next.

I shall be unsubbing from the various lists I belong to -- Alexandria,
Arcana, Coinherence, Ecchst-L, Hesse-L, Magister-L, Psyber-L, Talk-2000 and
Waldzell-L -- with the hope that you will be hearing from me again once we
have settled down in the UK.


--
Charles
Charles Cameron <hipbone@earthlink.net>
*
hipbone games: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/
playable variants on Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:43:07 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Re: departure imminent
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Charles,

Good fortunes, good health, and good spirits on your journey.  I look
forward to your re-connection here whenever.  I will be here on your
return to hear about this journey.

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:02:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Julienne <zjulienne@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: departure imminent
In-Reply-To:  <l03110700b0e4d0ff681e@[153.37.91.219]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:02 AM 1/16/98 +0000, Charles wrote:
>Friends and List-owners:
>
>As of sometime Sat Jan 17, I shall very likely no longer be able to receive
>or send mail from my own computer, for a period of maybe 6 or 8 weeks.

Good luck, Charles...and I hope all goes very well as you start on a new
adventure. :)

Julienne

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:51:40 PST
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Luis Fernández Vidaud <luislandia@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Jung's psychology of religion
Comments: cc: freedommag@delphi.com
Content-Type: text/plain

In his work "Gegenwart und Zukunft" (Volume X of the complete works,
published in 1957 - Jung himself died in the year 1961), Jung talked
about religion as a "weapon" (in fact, as the most effective weapon) of
the individual against contrasurvival influences emanating from the
state and society. Unfortunately, nobody has ever cardd to comment about
these ideas. Towards the end of his life, Jung as a "witness" to the
horrors of World War II was obviously worried about the status of the
individual in a collectivist environment seeking to suffocate the
universal and personal soul which, according to Jung, is divine in
nature - Does anybody have any information about ths part of Jung's
contribution to humanity? I believe this is probably the best work Jung
has offered to posterity. - Luis Fernández Vidaud, Wollankstr. 35,
D-13359 Berlin - Germany - Church for the Psychonauts - e-mail address:
luislandia@hotmail.com or luislandia@yahoo.com




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:32:03 -0400
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         sc <hoon@APK.NET>
Subject:      adventure
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Charles,

I'm here, watching. Pleased to see you go! By which I mean: get up and head
east to find learn what His/Her Will shall help you create!

All Praises Are Due God.

***

best of fortune, health, seredipity, (all the good stuff,) and,

adventure.

Your friend,

HooN

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:40:36 -0500
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Jim Calder <jfcalder@EASYNET.ON.CA>
Subject:      A Passing Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

All,

Today one of the tiny lights of the world went out.  My wife's
grandmother and soulmate passed away at the age of 87.  It had been
some years since she was well, and she'd been in a nursing home for
the past 2 years.  I'd just like to reflect a while on a life well
lived ...

We'll not read about Mary Nickel in history books, neither she nor
family have wrought great changes or reshaped humanity ... still ...
Mary did bring life and love and grace into the world.  She loved
her children and in doing so taught them how to love their own.  She
was a faithful and loving partner to her husband for 69 years, and
this example  has mentored my wife and I in ours.  She opened her
heart to love me and welcome me,  enriching my life and  that of my
family.

She loved God, did not pass judgement on others and tried to help
those less fortunate than herself.  Her smile lit up rooms.  She was
a wonderful cook and hostess.  These two talents were perhaps best
reflected in the event of 'Christmas at Grandma's house'.  You need
to understand that I had learned to dread Christmas - too much
yearning for too many things crammed into too little time - I
counted myself fortunate to have a job where I could volunteer to
work the day and avoid the whole thing.  Then came Christmas at
Grandma's - my wife and I were just engaged and I was invited to
share in her family's celebration.  I grit my teeth and hunkered
down to endure the assault.  What a revelation!  Children,
grandchildren and great grandchildren - all together and laughing,
playing and loving - none were there out of duty or obligation -
they genuinely enjoyed each other's company and wanted to be
together.  I was mystified, I thought families were about
recrimination and guilt, affiliation by accident of birth - a
biologically necessary but functionally impossible organization.
Here though was proof positive that this negative view was not
always true.  Where did this magic come from?  It came from the tiny
light in the kitchen, Mary making the meal as she made conversation,
and giving both the same care and attention.  She had the gift of
listening wholly and with integrity.  To be at her focus was to be
loved and respected.  She did not call for attention, one had to
choose to stay within her sphere and not everyone realized this.
There are those who thought her aloof and probably wondered why she
seemed not to like them.  Those of us priveledged to share in her
grace though, knew differently and savoured our time with her.

Some may think these small things, and though there are many more
aspects of her life not shared here, it's true that  Mary Nickel's
life story  is not a likely candidate for the history books.  It's
equally true though that her  memory, built on the gifts of life and
love and grace she brought, will live on.

Please spare a prayer, a thought or a wish - for the treasure that
was Mary.

...Jim

PS.  Do we all have Mary's in our life, and the challenge is simply
to recognize and celebrate them?

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:47:10 -0800
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         meeseo Paik <ingul@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: A Passing Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

To: Jim calder

I am deeply impressed with you email.
It's not easy to recognize the greatness of common people's life.
Further, What an old woman she is!(and, not your grandma, but your
wife's grandma)

You are very sensible and thoughtful..
I agree with you in your opinion...

Today, there are few women who are like Mary Nickle.
Probably, near future, such a woman become a legend..

Owing to you, I am thinking about my mother who is like Mary Nickle.
Of course, she lives in this world.
She is always kind and serves to anybody who visits her home.

I love her very very much...
But sometimes, I fail to express my love to her.
When young, I hated her lifestyle(service, endurance, concession...)
..Because I thought they were the virtues that are required only of
women.

Now, I am changed in mind, a little.
But, my mother's lifestyle still conflicts with my lifestyle.
I wish to be free, independent, manly...
I recognize the greatness of common people, but yet...for me, still
it's hard to accept their lifestyle.

 *** Being a true human being might be very difficult...

 Mee-seo..
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:23:38 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Re: A Passing Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jim

> Today one of the tiny lights of the world went out.  My wife's
> grandmother and soulmate passed away at the age of 87.

Having gone through a similar drama just this fall with my mother-in-law
who was 90, I understand well the feelings and the sense of history that
are brought to the surface.

> We'll not read about Mary Nickel in history books, neither she nor
> family have wrought great changes or reshaped humanity ... still ...
> Mary did bring life and love and grace into the world.  She loved
> her children and in doing so taught them how to love their own.  She
> was a faithful and loving partner to her husband for 69 years, and
> this example  has mentored my wife and I in ours.  She opened her
> heart to love me and welcome me,  enriching my life and  that of my
> family.

This woman did indeed act in ways that "change" the world.  The big
changes are only truly effective when they touch the smallest of us.
Without the love and mentorship what tragedy would life hold for those
that came from and after her ... these are in themselves "great
changes".

> Where did this magic come from?  It came from the tiny
> light in the kitchen, Mary making the meal as she made conversation,
> and giving both the same care and attention.

Thank God for the Mary's that populate this planet.  They will be the
the way, the path that holds hope for the human race in the years and
centuries to come.

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:58:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Carlson <rcarls2@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Psyberian New Year
In-Reply-To:  <34AEAB83.7FC5@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Robert G. Longpre wrote:

>      You ask a very interesting question that I unfortunately have not
> been able to find an answer.  Perhaps it's the method of research that
> is at fault.

I wouldn't want you to risk freezing anything on my account.

> Though I have had occasion to "spit" in very cold weather, the
> incidences are rare.  Why?  I hesitate to undo the scarf or lift the
> face mask to do this "spitting".  As well, it is difficult to note just
> "when" the freezing occurs.  Does the contact with the frozen ground
> hasten the freezing, or is the spit frozen "before" the spit actually
> lands.  One has to test the consistency of the spit "in the air" and at
> the moment of impact.  This takes time and I'm not that keen on spending
> "extra" time outside at these temperatures in the name of science.

I would suppose that you could tell on a dry sidewalk by whether it
shattered or not on impact.  If it were to shatter as a result of the
rapid cooling coming from the sidewalk, I would consider that close
enough to be frozen in the air.  Maybe you could convince someone else to
do it in the name of science.  Maybe they'd fall for it... who knows.

Rob

--
 Rob Carlson KC2AEI/3 <rcarls2@umbc.edu> http://umbc.edu/~rcarls2

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:50:25 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      The times, they are a changing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Walter and all,

     "The times, they are a changing."  They are for me and I can share
a bit of what I mean here with you.  I begin a period of stress leave
(burnout) Thursday morning next from my role as teacher.  This has been
of my choosing and not due to any administrative decision (they were
caught by surprise thinking that all is as it should be).  I have been
noticing that contents of my shadow have been oozing out and affecting
my performance as educator as well as spouse and father.

     As a result, I find the need to work with these spilled contents
quite intensively ... a bit messy of a task.  The problems?  Mother
Complex, masculinity, relationship, self-valuation ... typical issues of
midlife for many males.  Other than that, I do have a few issues of
childhood to resolve.  So why say something about this here?  I think it
has to do with the ongoing dialogue I have been engaged in with Walter.
As well, it's been getting too quiet here ... I'm a "shit disturber".

Robert

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:40:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Jim Calder <jfcalder@EASYNET.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: A Passing Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Meeseo and Robert,

Thanks for your thoughtful responses to my post.  The funeral went well -
truly a celebration by the family of who Mary was and of the gifts she had
brought.  In looking at how successful she was within the realm's available
to her in her time and place, and in considering the successes of her grand
daughters, its interesting to speculate on how different her life would have
been had she been born in 1950 instead of 1910.  Certainly she would have
had more choices available - and I wonder what choices she'd have made.

...Jim

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:53:11 GMT
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Walter Logeman <walter@PSYBERNET.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: The times, they are a changing
In-Reply-To:  <34CB6D51.55EC@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Robert, all,

I am back from holidays, working hard, its hot, been busy on my
thesis, which is close! and have been catching up with some friends
and discussing Psybernet in a more face to face way.  I am moved by
your respect Jim for the "Passing Life" of Mary.  I managed to get in
a private post to Charles before he left for the UK.  I imagine he'll
be back soon, I don't know how he'd get on without his connection.

Robert,

>      "The times, they are a changing."  They are for me and I can share
> a bit of what I mean here with you.  I begin a period of stress leave
> (burnout) Thursday morning next from my role as teacher.

I was suprised to hear this.

> So why say something about this here?  I think it
> has to do with the ongoing dialogue I have been engaged in with Walter.

Could you say more about this?  How have the dialogue and your rl
situation impacted each other.  I am certainly willing to continue the
dialogue, it was and is important for me.

I hope that my pauses in it are understood.  We are at the height of
summer and it is a great family and out door time an hence one where i
am quiet in cs.  I will warm up to the discussion, and look over where
we have got to.  Most of it is in the long "a few feelings" thread . .
. for those who may be wondering what we are on about.


More soon,

Walter



___________________________________________________________
Walter Logeman  walter@psybernet.co.nz  www.psybernet.co.nz

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:51:03 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      First Morning ... a wounded healer's journey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First Morning
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sitting in my rocking chair through the darkenss of night
Imagining horrors that have no name
Tears welled for no reason other than as protest
Sitting in my rocking chair locked in the silence of night
Fearing the horrors that have no name.

Fighting for strength in the light of the new day
Breathing deeply to contain the terror of an unknown future
Eyes strained from sleeplessness and tenseness
Fighting for hope in the promise of the new day
Closing my eyes to contain the terror of an unknown future,
The wounded healer's journey begins.

Robert Longpr=E9        =A9     January 29, 1998

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L



=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:42:23 -0600
Reply-To:     Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Psybernet Mailing List <PSYBER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Robert G. Longpre" <aigle@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Organization: Cyberie Counselling Services
Subject:      Body Language - A wounded healer's journey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Body Language
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Feet move forward almost under protest
Occasionally stopping in rebellion
Only to restart the plodding of the forward motion
Going nowhere only to arrive back =

At the beginning.

Arms dangle dissociated from the momentum
Of the feet moving in symphony with
That of a lover and mate
Hand limp in its coverings of winter
Rest, held in the hand of the other.

Head lowered, eyes focused unseeingly =

Upon the sunlit road edged with snow and ice
Eyes staring inward finding only empty shadows
That speak of an aloneness
For the unknown journey to come.

Robert Longpr=E9        =A9  January 31, 1998

_______________________________________________________________
For list options & how to leave PSYBER-L list, send an email to
LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM   in the text write: HELP PSYBER-L





